Leisure Battery - Dropped to 11.3v - shutting down :-(

[autorouter]

The voltage while charging should not be taken as an indication of how charged the battery is. Battery charging is a chemical process that takes several hours to complete. The voltage while charging typically rises immediately to about 13V, then gradually rises over several hours until it reaches about 14.4V. At that point it's still only about 80% charged.

During discharge, the plate materials in the battery (lead, lead oxide) change into lead sulfate, which is an amorphous gooey substance. During charging, the lead sulfate turns back into the plate materials again. This is the normal charge/discharge process.

If the lead sulfate is left for a long time (a week or two) it starts crystallising. The lead sulfate crystals can't be turned back into the plate materials by the normal charging process, so the battery loses capacity. This process is called sulphation.

So to avoid sulphation it's best to ensure the battery is fully 100% charged at least once a fortnight, preferably once a week.

 

[PaulC70]

Up to 12v?? And you are pleased?

Geoff

Well I was until you posted that, in the sense it shows at least the solar is working.
If you have something helpful to add to someone that obviously has little experience with this I'd be very grateful?

Well up anything is better than still going down BUT PaulC70 if you are taking the reading when there is sun on the panel it may/will not be a true reflection of the battery voltage as you need to read after it has rested without any charge for half an hour, unless your 11.3v was under the same conditions then it is a useful comparison but again not a true battery state.

And as suggested above "it's still flat"

Yes, not thought about that, so probably best to re look when it's dark and see :-/

The voltage while charging should not be taken as an indication of how charged the battery is. Battery charging is a chemical process that takes several hours to complete. The voltgae while charging typically rises immediately to about 13V, then gradually rises over several hours until it reaches about 14.4V. At that point it's still only about 80% charged.

During discharge, the plate materials in the battery (lead, lead oxide) change into lead sulfate, which is an amorphous gooey substance. During charging, the lead sulfate turns back into the plate materials again. This is the normal charge/discharge process.

If the lead sulfate is left for a long time (a week or two) it starts crystallising. The lead sulfate crystals can't be turned back into the palte materials by the normal charging process, so the battery loses capacity. This process is called sulphation.

So to avoid sulphation it's best to ensure the battery is fully 100% charged at least once a fortnight, preferably once a week.

OK, so back to my original worry then, whats the best method to do this given i have no ability to EHU?
A long run every week or two? A short run every week? Run the engine for 30 minutes or more?

 

[Richard n Ann]

Well I was until you posted that, in the sense it shows at least the solar is working.
If you have something helpful to add to someone that obviously has little experience with this I'd be very grateful?



Yes, not thought about that, so probably best to re look when it's dark and see :-/



OK, so back to my original worry then, whats the best method to do this given i have no ability to EHU?
A long run every week or two? A short run every week? Run the engine for 30 minutes or more?

You may as well leave it now and fit a new battery in the spring. Next winter take the battery home and put a maintainer on it like an optimate 2

 

[monzer]

The voltage while charging should not be taken as an indication of how charged the battery is. Battery charging is a chemical process that takes several hours to complete. The voltgae while charging typically rises immediately to about 13V, then gradually rises over several hours until it reaches about 14.4V. At that point it's still only about 80% charged.

During discharge, the plate materials in the battery (lead, lead oxide) change into lead sulfate, which is an amorphous gooey substance. During charging, the lead sulfate turns back into the plate materials again. This is the normal charge/discharge process.

If the lead sulfate is left for a long time (a week or two) it starts crystallising. The lead sulfate crystals can't be turned back into the palte materials by the normal charging process, so the battery loses capacity. This process is called sulphation.

So to avoid sulphation it's best to ensure the battery is fully 100% charged at least once a fortnight, preferably once a week.

Excellent post, very informative. Probably my favourite poster along with fat haggis after a few whiskys.

 

[PaulC70]

You may as well leave it now and fit a new battery in the spring. Next winter take the battery home and put a maintainer on it like an optimate 2

Im off out for a week in it tomorrow though

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[donkey]

Well I was until you posted that, in the sense it shows at least the solar is working.
If you have something helpful to add to someone that obviously has little experience with this I'd be very grateful?



Yes, not thought about that, so probably best to re look when it's dark and see :-/



OK, so back to my original worry then, whats the best method to do this given i have no ability to EHU?
A long run every week or two? A short run every week? Run the engine for 30 minutes or more?

Quite happy to offer advice, but you have already received plenty. Have you done all the checks mentioned by the other guys, such as controller settings? Can you remove the batteries and charge them properly at home? Carry out a voltage and closed circuit amp check on the solar input, this will give you a good indication of the potential charging capacity. Check and double check all electrical connections.
As I said 12v represents a flat/duff battery. Even a half decent discharged battery will settle at around 12v given a bit of time but should certainly be showing well above that if there is any solar input, unless you are drawing current continuously.

Geoff

 

[PaulC70]

I've got an optimate in the shed, if I was to disconnect the LB now and charge it overnight will it help or is it goosed? That's what ye seem to be implying? It's the first time this has happened.

Plus my worry is about the disconnecting, I presume i need to disconnect the solar first, then the LB.

 

[donkey]

It is advisable to disconnect the solar, then when reconnecting: battery first followed by solar. This lets the controller know what voltage system you have.
As for charging the batteries overnight, I would advise nothing less than 24 hours, this will give the charger a chance of getting them up to 100%.

Geoff

 

[WillH]

Where we are, today, there were only 8 hours between sunrise and sunset. The sun only rose to 14° . I have a 100w solar panel and it isn't enough. I reckon the max input today was around 10 Watts.

 

[donkey]

Where we are, today, there were only 8 hours between sunrise and sunset. The sun only rose to 14° . I have a 100w solar panel and it isn't enough. I reckon the max input today was around 10 Watts.

I didn't think the sun showed itself in your neck of the woods this time of year.

Geoff

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[Richard n Ann]

I've got an optimate in the shed, if I was to disconnect the LB now and charge it overnight will it help or is it goosed? That's what ye seem to be implying? It's the first time this has happened.

Plus my worry is about the disconnecting, I presume i need to disconnect the solar first, then the LB.

Depending what optimate it is, it probably will only be a maintainer, not charger. That's not to say it won't charge the battery but it might take a week.

Whether the battery is any good now that's anybodies guess, it will have taken a hit to capacity that's for sure.

 

[funflair]

The voltage while charging should not be taken as an indication of how charged the battery is. Battery charging is a chemical process that takes several hours to complete. The voltgae while charging typically rises immediately to about 13V, then gradually rises over several hours until it reaches about 14.4V. At that point it's still only about 80% charged.

During discharge, the plate materials in the battery (lead, lead oxide) change into lead sulfate, which is an amorphous gooey substance. During charging, the lead sulfate turns back into the plate materials again. This is the normal charge/discharge process.

If the lead sulfate is left for a long time (a week or two) it starts crystallising. The lead sulfate crystals can't be turned back into the palte materials by the normal charging process, so the battery loses capacity. This process is called sulphation.

So to avoid sulphation it's best to ensure the battery is fully 100% charged at least once a fortnight, preferably once a week.

Would the voltage of a battery down at 11.3v rise to 13v with just 1amp coming from solar? I would have thought not.

 

[GeoffnDee]

PaulC70 If, as you suspect ,the controls etc being left on was to much for the solar to keep the leisure battery topped up, as hoped, also via the Battery master the starter battery , what is the state of charge of the starter battery at this time.

 

[Lenny HB]

Do you really think that 100w panel would cope Lenny? we might need to know the draw over 24hrs from the van control panel and the heater panel being left on, our van would use at least 25amps in a 24hr period with just the control panel, re battery master and dual output regulator? sometimes I think it is easier to use a Battery Master when the +ve for both batteries are right next to each other.

Out first van I only had a 80 watt panel that kept the batteries topped up over the winter, your gin palace draws a lot more current than most vans.
Using the solar 2nd output to charge the starter battery means the starter battery normally gets a charge when the leisure battery is about 90% charged & the current will only be charged by the solar.
With the Batterymaster all the time the leisure battery is .75v above the starter battery will be taking current from the leisure battery.

 

[autorouter]

Would the voltage of a battery down at 11.3v rise to 13v with just 1amp coming from solar? I would have thought not.

What I meant was that if the battery is at say 20%, even if the charger pushes the voltage up to 13V the battery would still be at 20%, so the voltage is no guide to how charged the battery is.

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[PaulC70]

Depending what optimate it is, it probably will only be a maintainer, not charger. That's not to say it won't charge the battery but it might take a week.

Whether the battery is any good now that's anybodies guess, it will have taken a hit to capacity that's for sure.

It's a charger and maintainer one
I've put it on so will see what it's like in the morning, just measuring before charging the multimeter says it's holding at 11.7v :-(

PaulC70 If, as you suspect ,the controls etc being left on was to much for the solar to keep the leisure battery topped up, as hoped, also via the Battery master the starter battery , what is the state of charge of the starter battery at this time.

Starter battery is good thankfully, checked yesterday and today, starts first turn of the key and no hesitation.

Out first van I only had a 80 watt panel that kept the batteries topped up over the winter, your gin palace draws a lot more current than most vans.
Using the solar 2nd output to charge the starter battery means the starter battery normally gets a charge when the leisure battery is about 90% charged & the current will only be charged by the solar.
With the Batterymaster all the time the leisure battery is .75v above the starter battery will be taking current from the leisure battery.

Well that's just rude!









It's a whiskey palace!

 

[funflair]

What I meant was that if the battery is at say 20%, even if the charger pushes the voltage up to 13V the battery would still be at 20%, so the voltage is no guide to how charged the battery is.

OK I will go with that I thought it was giving the impression that PaulC70 should be seeing 13v rather than the 12v he was looking at, my mistake possibly.

 

[GeoffnDee]

I dont think that the battery master would have been able to take a charge from your flat leisure battery and the starter batteries are normally the ones to go flat , is it possible that the solar panel has been wired into the starter battery and not the leisure battery as the starter battery seems to be fully charged. The leisure battery reading may have gone up a bit as the load was taken off it when the controls have been switched off.

 

[PaulC70]

I dont think that the battery master would have been able to take a charge from your flat leisure battery and the starter batteries are normally the ones to go flat , is it possible that the solar panel has been wired into the starter battery and not the leisure battery as the starter battery seems to be fully charged. The leisure battery reading may have gone up a bit as the load was taken off it when the controls have been switched off.

reading didn't go up yesterday when I switched off the panels. Im quite sure the solar is wired in to the correct battery ie the leisure.
Battery master only takes from the excess LB, at a certain point it stops "leeching" from it and as this has only just been an issue in the last 24 hours Im confident this is simply my ignorance that the solar would be enough to power a simple control panel, which it obviously wont, at least not in winter in the UK

 

[autorouter]

OK, so back to my original worry then, whats the best method to do this given i have no ability to EHU?
A long run every week or two? A short run every week? Run the engine for 30 minutes or more?

There's no one obvious solution if you can't get to EHU. There are a number of possibilities, depending on what your situation is, what you already have, what you can buy, and how much you want to spend.

If the windscreen catches the sun, a solar panel propped at an angle will catch much more power than one flat on the roof, especially in winter, even through the screen glass.

If you already have one of those lithium power packs with a built-in inverter, plus a small charger, you can use that to ferry electric charge from the house to the MH. I used a variation of that: a spare 12V battery, a 150W inverter, and a small mains charger, to charge the leisure batteries. I already had a battery and charger, so I bought the inverter, and it all worked fine, but I had to ferry the battery etc to the MH every couple of weeks, and leave it overnight.

Driving with a B2B works for some, after a couple of weeks hopefully the battery won't be very low, and will refill quickly. But for example a 20A B2B will take at least 2.5 hours to put back 50Ah of charge, so that's a long drive on a winter day.

I hesitate to suggest a generator, but it's a possibility if the storage site people don't mind the noise. One disadvantage is there's a limit to how fast you can recharge the battery, so that means the generator runs for a long time at low power.

I'll mention an Efoy fuel cell, which is a perfectly good solution, apart from the cost.

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[PaulC70]

There's no one obvious solution if you can't get to EHU. There are a number of possibilities, depending on what your situation is, what you already have, what you can buy, and how much you want to spend.

If the windscreen catches the sun, a solar panel propped at an angle will catch much more power than one flat on the roof, especially in winter, even through the screen glass.

Hmm this might be an option, just have to turn the van round the other way lol.

If you already have one of those lithium power packs with a built-in inverter, plus a small charger, you can use that to ferry electric charge from the house to the MH. I used a variation of that: a spare 12V battery, a 150W inverter, and a small mains charger, to charge the leisure batteries. I already had a battery and charger, so I bought the inverter, and it all worked fine, but I had to ferry the battery etc to the MH every couple of weeks, and leave it overnight.

Is that one of those jackery things? Lot of money aren't they? the solar panel in the windscreens surely cheaper?

Driving with a B2B works for some, after a couple of weeks hopefully the battery won't be very low, and will refill quickly. But for example a 20A B2B will take at least 2.5 hours to put back 50Ah of charge, so that's a long drive on a winter day.

I hesitate to suggest a generator, but it's a possibility if the storage site people don't mind the noise. One disadvantage is there's a limit to how fast you can recharge the battery, so that means the generator runs for a long time at low power.

I'll mention an Efoy fuel cell, which is a perfectly good solution, apart from the cost.

Generator's a no go, its not stored at a site, it's in the visitor layby round the corner from my house and the only reason I can't run a cable there for EHU is it would have to run right past a neighbours front door and over a public footpath, and my neighbours an ass.

The Efoy looks lovely but, nah. lol.

 

[funflair]

Hmm this might be an option, just have to turn the van round the other way lol.


Is that one of those jackery things? Lot of money aren't they? the solar panel in the windscreens surely cheaper?


Generator's a no go, its not stored at a site, it's in the visitor layby round the corner from my house and the only reason I can't run a cable there for EHU is it would have to run right past a neighbours front door and over a public footpath, and my neighbours an ass.

The Efoy looks lovely but, nah. lol.

Efoy is a good bit of kit especially if you can find a lightly used one in classified for less £2k (ad might have lapsed now)