Leisure battery - 12V help please!

[Brian TE1300P]

Hello!
We have just bought our first Motorhome, been out twice in it and LOVE IT!
We hooked up once on a site and went wild camping second time.
Hook up was all fine, but I wanted to ask about using the leisure battery as I'm a complete novice and would like some help!
Is this correct - on hook up, you can use everyday appliances as normal as its essentially like being plugged into the mains, however when just on the leisure battery, you can only run appliances which are suitable to be run off 12 volts?
If so, does this mean I have to go and buy a load of new appliances or is there some way of converting the current ones so they will work. I'm thinking things like a kettle, oil filled radiator, TV, charging phones etc.
If we can run these off the leisure battery, how long would you expect the battery to last whilst running these appliances?
Many thanks in advance. We are hoping for many happy years of motorhoming!
Cheers

Brian

 

[PhilandMena]

You are far too optimistic Phil. Although in theory butane will work down to zero in practice it's pretty useless much below 10° and even at much higher temps Truma Combi heaters will fall over. It's not just the gas pressure but also the flow rate which butane has trouble delivering to keep a Combi going.

Working well for me so far in Morocco and I'm guess8ng a few million Moroccans.

 

[Lenny HB]

Working well for me so far in Morocco and I'm guess8ng a few million Moroccans.

Have you got a Truma Combi?

 

[PhilandMena]

Have you got a Truma Combi?

Typical! Your back is up against the wall and you have to get all technical.

 

[Peskyrabbitt]

I am a newbie since November 2018 and have purchased all 12v appliances ie- Kettle , toaster, tv so I have both options for EHU or Wild Camping, I also have a low wattage oil filled heater which keeps the chill out the MH. My MH came with Blue Butane bottle which was half full /empty lol and have never had a problem with it freezing up but I have covered the bottle with a thick old Jacket. I will probably change over to Propane when it runs out.

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[Pausim]

I have covered the bottle with a thick old Jacket.

That could be a mistake. When not in use you are keeping the cold out but as soon as you start using gas the liquid cools and needs to draw heat from outside the bottle. This is because the gas needs heat energy to boil off from the liquid (latent heat of evaporation) and if it is not replaced the temperature will fall until it is below the boiling point.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Working well for me so far in Morocco and I'm guess8ng a few million Moroccans.

It will work OK at low ish temperatures if you're just using it slowly. If you use it for heating, which of course uses more, the fast evaporating vapour leaves the average temperature of the remaining liquid lower, the more that evaporates the lower the bottle temperature and pressure is.

I am a newbie since November 2018 and have purchased all 12v appliances ie- Kettle , toaster, tv so I have both options for EHU or Wild Camping, I also have a low wattage oil filled heater which keeps the chill out the MH. My MH came with Blue Butane bottle which was half full /empty lol and have never had a problem with it freezing up but I have covered the bottle with a thick old Jacket. I will probably change over to Propane when it runs out.

Insulating the bottle is fine if you want to keep the outside cold air off it, but if you insulate it whilst using it, the bottle temperature will soon drop below ambient temperature. Depends how much you're using though, might not be noticeable with just a pilot light and occasional frying pan.

If you're using a lot of gas it would be best to open the locker door and point a fan on it so it stays at (or just below) ambient

 

[Peskyrabbitt]

It will work OK at low ish temperatures if you're just using it slowly. If you use it for heating, which of course uses more, the fast evaporating vapour leaves the average temperature of the remaining liquid lower, the more that evaporates the lower the bottle temperature and pressure is.



Insulating the bottle is fine if you want to keep the outside cold air off it, but if you insulate it whilst using it, the bottle temperature will soon drop below ambient temperature. Depends how much you're using though, might not be noticeable with just a pilot light and occasional frying pan.

If you're using a lot of gas it would be best to open the locker door and point a fan on it so it stays at (or just below) ambient

Thanks for the advice regarding Insulating The bottle have taken that on board, bottle nearly out and will replace with Propane and appropriate fittings if needed, will seek advice from suitably qualified person.

 

[Sundowners]

I am a newbie since November 2018 and have purchased all 12v appliances ie- Kettle , toaster,.

Personally I don't think the kettle or toaster are a good idea!!!!! I think better use gas------- even being 12v they will be very slow and use a lot of power????

 

[Sundowners]

Gas in UK is pretty standard propane red---- butane blue---------- but when you get into Europe there will be all sorts of pretty colours!!!!!!
It makes sense to use propane all the time imho------ in autumn or spring you can get cold nights up high------ very frustrating if you can't boil kettle in the morning or put the heating on!!!
Doesn't matter so much if you have a van with heated regulator and gas box though!!! LOL

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[Peskyrabbitt]

Personally I don't think the kettle or toaster are a good idea!!!!! I think better use gas------- even being 12v they will be very slow and use a lot of power????

Each to there own as they say !!! I use my 12v kettle and toaster when on EHU and use gas kettle when not , regarding them being slower, maybe they are a little, but whats the hurry? last time I was on EHU I stayed for 4 nights and my electric was only £7 ( metered ) with using all the 12v appliances, I am happy with that.

 

[Pausim]

Each to there own as they say !!! I use my 12v kettle and toaster when on EHU and use gas kettle when not , regarding them being slower, maybe they are a little, but whats the hurry? last time I was on EHU I stayed for 4 nights and my electric was only £7 ( metered ) with using all the 12v appliances, I am happy with that.

Not sure I understand the logic here. If you are on ehu and using 12v appliances the metered supply will be used to recharge the battery, so you are still paying for the energy consumed. Probably less efficiently than direct use of the mains, power losses being greater at lower voltages and higher amps.

 

[Peskyrabbitt]

Not sure I understand the logic here. If you are on ehu and using 12v appliances the metered supply will be used to recharge the battery, so you are still paying for the energy consumed. Probably less efficiently than direct use of the mains, power losses being greater at lower voltages and higher amps.

Excuse my ignorance I am a Newbie after all, So what I should be using is normal household appliances when on EHU instead of 12v ?

 

[Pausim]

Excuse my ignorance I am a Newbie after all, So what I should be using is normal household appliances when on EHU instead of 12v ?

Sorry if that sounded a bit blunt. As a general rule I use as little 12v power as possible, batteries do not store a vast amount of energy. My preference is when on ehu use mains power where possible/convenient but be carefu of standard domestic appliances such as kettles, which can be 3kw which would on its own exceed some ehu supplies. Lower powered 240v appliances are available, I use a small kettle rated at about 1.8kw, still quick just boils less water.

 

[Peskyrabbitt]

We do not use much 12v power when wild camping mainly only lighting for a short while then we use candle style led battery operated lights to save our battery and gas for heating/kettle and cooking. I will have to check my kettle and toaster again, I cant remember if there 12 v or low wattage ? DOH!!

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[138go]

Excuse my ignorance I am a Newbie after all, So what I should be using is normal household appliances when on EHU instead of 12v ?

No not at all. That just means carting round even more junk. We use a Kettle on Gas, A Toaster on Gas, 12v Tv, Charges for IPads etc use 12v. The only thing I have not found is a suitable charger for EBike batteries so use an inverter.

 

[Peskyrabbitt]

Sorry if that sounded a bit blunt. As a general rule I use as little 12v power as possible, batteries do not store a vast amount of energy. My preference is when on ehu use mains power where possible/convenient but be carefu of standard domestic appliances such as kettles, which can be 3kw which would on its own exceed some ehu supplies. Lower powered 240v appliances are available, I use a small kettle rated at about 1.8kw, still quick just boils less water.

I have just checked my Toaster and Kettle and feel stupid now as my Toaster is 240v and 700w and the Kettle states dual voltage and 1kw so apologies for my previous posts and getting it wrong.

 

[Peskyrabbitt]

Lean something new every day as they say

 

[Pausim]

No need to apologise we all learn from each other.

 

[mitzimad]

i cant be bothered to carry two kettles or two of anything so gas kettle for the amount of gas it uses

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[Keith E]

Well you batteries will all be 12v but the 80 and 120 bit refers to the ah amp/hour capacity rating, so you now have 320 ah which if lead acid you can use 50% so you have 160 ah useable, the answer to the inverter question is what do you want/need to run what power requirements then how long do you want to run it them will tell you how much battery capacity you will use.

In answer to the water pump question YES.

Martin

But if the batteries are wired in parallel then the 120 amp batteries won't charge beyond 80 amps - the capacity of the smallest battery, therefore there'll be only 240 amps available.

 

[Pausim]

But if the batteries are wired in parallel then the 120 amp batteries won't charge beyond 80 amps - the capacity of the smallest battery, therefore there'll be only 240 amps available.

Not my understanding. I know there can be issues with old batteries pulling newer ones down but if they are all in good order I would go along with the @funflair explanation.

 

[funflair]

Not my understanding. I know there can be issues with old batteries pulling newer ones down but if they are all in good order I would go along with the @funflair explanation.

Quite, path of least resistance etc etc.

Martin

 

[autorouter]

But if the batteries are wired in parallel then the 120 amp batteries won't charge beyond 80 amps - the capacity of the smallest battery, therefore there'll be only 240 amps available.

That's true if wired in series, not parallel.

 

[pappajohn]

But if the batteries are wired in parallel then the 120 amp batteries won't charge beyond 80 amps - the capacity of the smallest battery, therefore there'll be only 240 amps available.

Sorry but incorrect.
All three batteries will charge to their maximum capacity if the batteries are in good condition.
All three will combine as one even though they are in three separate 'boxes'
The 80ah will only charge to 80amps but the other two will continue to charge to their capacity... 120amps each.
Look on them as buckets of water, two containing 2 gallons and one containing one gallon.... Three separate buckets but you still have five gallons of water.