Legal Help Required re Covenant

[Stacetop]

Hi

We keep our van in storage and bring it home occasionally to load and unload. There are restrictive covenants on our property and one that covers the roads of the estate for a caravan or boat trailer. One of our neighbours several doors away in the cul de sac has taken an issue with our van when her direct neighbours also bought one. She has caused them issues including calling the police!

Most of our cul de sac are happy and I screen shot messages to prove that. She is the only one with an issue and has now sent a solicitors letter so I need to find a solicitor to write to her solicitor within 12 days.

Can anyone recommend a solicitor who is an expert in covenants?

 

[TheBig1]

By all means respond to the solicitor, but in absolutely no way admit to doing anything at all wrong. If you preface any statement you make to them "without prejudice" it will prevent them using it against you. You might also like to point out that their client is contravening your human rights to enjoy a life without harassment

 

[TOAD on Tour]

i personally would not respond back at all. Nothing is going to happen until a civil case is taken against you, if that’s what they really want to do. You seem to intend to sought legal advice which is wise. We’ve had this in a previous house that also had a residents management company. We got email proof that all houses that could view our MH had no issues with it along with the Management Companies elected residents committee. I also pointed out that the covenants also included no satellite dishes or commercial vehicles, between those 2 covenants, there were no properties that remained squeaky clean. I made it clear that I would abide by the covenants if all others were enforced too. So it may be worth seeing what other restrictions are in place that are not being adhered to……

 

[Stacetop]

By all means respond to the solicitor, but in absolutely no way admit to doing anything at all wrong. If you preface any statement you make to them "without prejudice" it will prevent them using it against you. You might also like to point out that their client is contravening your human rights to enjoy a life without harassment

Thanks, technically she is also in breach of the builders covenant because she is running her business from home which when pointed out she has denied to her solicitor. How ever I would love to know where she runs her business from when it’s just a London mailing address!

 

[Zoobec]

You might be able to get some free legal advice with your motor or home insurance. You can sometimes get an initial consultation and a letter done, that might be enough to sort out the issue.

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[Pausim]

From my knowledge the only people that can enforce a covenant are the original developers. It is a complex area of law though and this advice is worth what you paid for it.

Do you need to spend the money on a solicitor?

For the odd night, I would just chuck the letter in the bin.

Some covenants may only be enforceable by the developer but other covenants are designed for the long term protection of the land and pass from owner to owner. I would place more emphasis on the fact that it is a registered, insured and taxed vehicle and the laws relating to public highways apply. If on the road best make sure you comply with the parking rules which may be different if over 3500kg (lighting).

 

[Dave Scadding]

Hi

We keep our van in storage and bring it home occasionally to load and unload. There are restrictive covenants on our property and one that covers the roads of the estate for a caravan or boat trailer. One of our neighbours several doors away in the cul de sac has taken an issue with our van when her direct neighbours also bought one. She has caused them issues including calling the police!

Most of our cul de sac are happy and I screen shot messages to prove that. She is the only one with an issue and has now sent a solicitors letter so I need to find a solicitor to write to her solicitor within 12 days.

Can anyone recommend a solicitor who is an expert in covenants?

It may be possible to take out an insurance policy to protect you if the covenant is ever invoked. It’s normally to expensive for Jo public to get legal and try to impose it so insurers rarely have to payout .

 

[suavecarve]

This will not solve your problem but we once had a problem with a neighbour he was nit picking at a small issue. I made sure I replied directly to his solicitor who in turn would have then written to the neighbour. After a few letters back & forward where I always wrote direct to the neighbours solicitor I got a reply from the neighbours solicitor saying they were no longer working for the neighbour. The reason being every time they wrote to me & then forwarded my response it was costing the neighbour money. So I suggest you send a basic polite letter back saying you only have the van there for loading/unloading etc, no different to a say Asda grocery van, not an answer they want but letters can continue back & forward at a cost.

Make sure you ask the solicitor a question a week, give him/her plenty time to formulate the response to your neighbour and just send another one in "One more thing"

 

[suavecarve]

he was trying to sell his house

COrrect me if I am wrong, but if they are trying to sell their house they have to admit to having problems with neighbours if they wish to progress against you. Perhaps this ought to be pointed out to them or "Start your bleeding civil action and make sure its put onto your documents for house sale"

 

[TheBig1]

Thanks, technically she is also in breach of the builders covenant because she is running her business from home which when pointed out she has denied to her solicitor. How ever I would love to know where she runs her business from when it’s just a London mailing address!

I would be inclined to speak to the local council to confirm she is paying business rates for council tax and waste disposal. Just ask the question if that is being paid for the business and leave it at that. If as you suggest there is a London mailing address, the business will be likely based in her home and may be registered with companies house. The council will then pursue her for unpaid taxes and maybe fraud if this has been going on since she moved there.

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[JoshnPen]

The person with the benefit of the covenant is entitled to enforce it. If (as is common) the covenant is for the benefit of the original developers and their successors in title, that would include the owners of the individual properties, so your neighbour is entitled to enforce. Not sure whether a moho is classified as a caravan, there's bound to be case law on the point.

 

[Paulypaul]

Respond within the 12 day period by writing a letter yourself refuting the suggestion that your "motorhome" could ever possibly be constituted as either a "caravan" or "boat trailer" and therefore you are not in breach of any covenant. State that you require a response within 7 days.

The purpose of your letter is to force your nasty neighbour to have to engage her solicitor further at great expense to her. Personally I'd play ping pong like this for as long as possible, thus costing her a great deal of money.

If, and it is a massive if, this ever did escalate to the threat of civil proceedings against you, which seems very unlikely, then you should contact your home insurer and apply for legal representation using your legal expense cover, which should cover issues like this. That should see her off if your insurer agrees to cover this.

Hope your neighbour suffers some serious mental health issues and runs out of money.

 

[dabhand]

If the Covenant refers to a caravan or a boat and not a Motorhome, how on earth can they enforce it anyway. I wouldn’t waste any time time with it, tell her you’ll see her in Court where your rights will be vigorously defended. It’ll cost her I would think. I’ve had several restrictive Covenants over the years on properties I’ve bought, I (my solicitor) took out an insurance for a nominal amount and never heard anything more.

 

[Stacetop]

I have found some case law on the motorhome definition. It’s by no means definitive and would require a judge to interpret. Letter is worded that we need to respond with an “assurance of prevention in relation to the breach of covenant”. We did breach it at Christmas as the compound was close for 2 weeks so we brought the van home and went away in between Christmas and new year. Had we not brought it home we would have had a holiday. Therefore we would have had our human rights restricted??

 

[Wack]

I'd be utterly amazed if anything happens past a letter or two
Her solicitor will be charging her to send you scary letters but if she wants to take it any further I can't see them doing it on a no win no fee basis so it'd cost her thousands to take you to court.

I'd just reply to her solicitor personally because solicitors love an argument between two parties at £££ a letter

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[Wack]

That’s also correct, even the local council will probably not be interested in the slightest. They are so skint they can’t do what they are legally obliged to, let alone get involved in this stuff.

They won't be interested , if they enforce one covenant on an estate they'll have to do them all, every works van, caravan, boat, motorhome

It'll never happen

 

[dabhand]

Found some interesting articles, there’s lots.​

Lack of Traceability of the Restrictive Covenant​

Although its age is immaterial, a covenant may be deemed unenforceable if the beneficiary cannot be tracked down.

The original parties may also not be alive or the company under which the covenant is registered may have been dissolved.

In a similar vein, there’s a strong argument for the covenant’s obsolescence if has been assigned to a third party or the land is not owned by the same beneficiary.

The solicitor can also check the Land Charges Development to ensure the covenant was registered in the correct manner. “D2” is the correct classification.

Also, the covenant may be unenforceable if the underlying land is unregistered at the HM Land Registry.

The above an extract from

Restrictive Covenants - The Complete Guide (Property Solvers Homeowner's Hub)

Property Solvers Homeowner Hub's detailed guide to Restrictive Covenants delves into everything from its meaning and enforceability through to negotiation, challenging these types of covenants, legal (+ other) costs, indemnity insurance and much more...

www.propertysolvers.co.uk

 

[sedge]

No Way can a legal doc only related to trailers whether boat, caravan or other, be suddenly retrospectively applied to A currently legally roadworthy Motor Vehicle i.e. imminently capable of its own propulsion by someone legally properly insured to drive it on the Public Highway.

 

[sedge]

Oh, PS - during part of my working life ie the 30 years employed by the then Sun Alliance & London Insurance Group - one of the things I had to do was actually calculate insurance premiums for Restrictive Covenant insurance.

 

[MichaelT]

From my knowledge the only people that can enforce a covenant are the original developers. It is a complex area of law though and this advice is worth what you paid for it.

Do you need to spend the money on a solicitor?

For the odd night, I would just chuck the letter in the bin.

In our road all the neighbours can enforce them too!

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[philann]

Just be a bit careful when saying that a motorhome cannot be described as a caravan. I bet on everyone’s V5 it is described as a “motor caravan”.

 

[TOAD on Tour]

Just be a bit careful when saying that a motorhome cannot be described as a caravan. I bet on everyone’s V5 it is described as a “motor caravan”.

Agreed, when we were arguing over covenants re: our MH it was described something along the lines of: Commercial vehicles, Boats, Trailers, Caravan or any other vehicle with sleeping accommodation

 

[MisterB]

Go for the long winded approach of responding to her solicitor with as little info as possible asking no more than one question at a time, so it costs her money for each response

 

[Rob Turner]

I wouldn’t be worrying about this at all.
When a letter is delivered, rip it up and fire it back through her letterbox whilst laughing hysterically

I would love to live next door to her, she’d want to move out in no time.

 

[jdk62]

Thanks, technically she is also in breach of the builders covenant because she is running her business from home which when pointed out she has denied to her solicitor. How ever I would love to know where she runs her business from when it’s just a London mailing address!

Did you know that some mortgage terms do not allow you to run a business from home. Those that do, often require you to notify them and get their approval….

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[Silver-Fox]

Did you know that some mortgage terms do not allow you to run a business from home. Those that do, often require you to notify them and get their approval….

Generally you can do the administrative work from home.

But not allowed to have visits from clients.

 

[Pausim]

Agreed, when we were arguing over covenants re: our MH it was described something along the lines of: Commercial vehicles, Boats, Trailers, Caravan or any other vehicle with sleeping accommodation

We had limitations on parking at our last address and there were extra words to cover vehicles used or converted for sleeping. They wouldn’t have bothered putting in the extra words if they weren’t needed.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

I wouldn't worry about the solicitors letter and just advise the solicitor that you have not breached the covenant as your vehicle is a motorhome not a boat or caravan. Dont be threatened by the letter. Respond politely , advise that the vehicle is not permanently stored at your home anyway and is only occassionaly parked on your property for your convenience . But potentially you could park it for longer.Keep the letters short she will be spending a lot of money. Don't engage a solicitor..
If her house is not too far away ,park your car outside her house for a few days while you use your van.
Ps
If you have any legal cover with any of your insurances you can always ask them for advice. Usually free of charge. Doesn't need ti be about the actual insurance cover.

 

[Wack]

Generally you can do the administrative work from home.

But not allowed to have visits from clients.

Someone I knew started making garden ornaments in a shed, someone bubbled him to the council, they changed his rates to business use

If she's being awkward so would I if she's doing anything more than admin

 

[Nanniemate]

The general rule with covenants is that the person or organisation who put the covenant in place is the only one who can enforce it. It is generally done on new developments by the developer to prevent people from making the site look unsightly. Quite often once the developer has sold all the units they are no longer concerned at what happens.

I can't imagine that the police would do anything as its a civil matter. The roads belong to the developer until adopted by the relevant Highways Authority so subject to the developers covenant.

Is the estate still under development and if finished, how long ago?

It will be costly to enforce the covenant! My father persuaded a builder to successfully enforce a covenant by committing to pay all the legal fees against a neighbour who parked his caravan in his drive right outside my parents dining room taking away the view and light.

if you are just loading up before a trip or after one and then driving it to storage elsewhere then it should not be a problem. If you are hoping to park it permanently on the road or at your house it will be a case of telling her solicitors to put up or shut up and take a chance!

Any reasonably sized firm of solicitors with a property/conveyancing department should be able to advise you.

Unfortunately many new sites now are leasehold. One of the reasons I walked away from a newbuild recently. When I put mine on the market the estate agent was surprised that it was freehold. As many of the new builds including the one they lived in were leasehold

The covenant on my culdesac said not until all units were sold , its full of builders vans now and it was ignored from the off . The developers did threaten one neighbour when they found their caravan on the drive of an unsold property

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[Gizmouk]

The covenant bit has been covered by those more knowledgeable on the subject than me.
However, be aware. Neighbour disputes can escalate extremely quickly, and can cause unnecessary stress. And, should you want to sell your property, they have to be declared - which could put some buyers off.
I wouldn't want to live next to an arsehole ... strangely, I only have one neighbour

I wish you well