Latest update on travelling abroad after Brexit

[Coolcats]

Well I prefer to vote for my d++++++ds rather than have them imposed on me.

It’s imposed whichever way you look at it our pension age rose we had no say, a huge increase in MoHo tax we did not vote for it. Freedom to write our own laws is an illusion.

 

[Allanm]

For you and others with a property in EU, why do you not use that address to apply for Residence, not Citizenship, in that country? Then you are sorted for staying as long as you want in that country and for travelling for up to 90 days in any other EU country.

If you hold a UK passport you can return to UK any time and stay as long as you want.

I am applying in Poland, because I live here, but I would also if we had a second home here.

Geoff

Residency and citizenship are different. To become a Citizen ( in France ) you need to have lived there for 5 years and you will be expected to have a high level of that countries language skills.
To become a resident and apply for a residency permit you need to prove you have sufficient funds to not be a burden, have proof of an address in that country and register for healthcare ( a process that can take at least 3 months and over a year before you get your Carte Vitale) you cannot be resident in another country.
Just saying you have these things in place will not be accepted without documentary evidence.
also, as a second home owner, you will have to declare that it is not your permanent residence, every January, when you are assessed for Habitation Tax. If you don’t declare that as your primary residence, you will not be able to apply for residency.
You can’t get round the system to suit yourself.

 

[Deneb]

I think there are guidelines but each country will be able to implement them as they see fit. At the moment, overstaying your 90 days in the EU is generally ignored but this will change after the UK is no longer a member of the EU and after the transition period ends.
What people do now is irrelevant as it will all change soon

There isn't a 90 day overstay in the EU for us to ignore at the moment! We are still in the EU and have unlimited freedom of movement, just an obligation to make our presence known to the authorities if we stay more than 90 days in a single member state other than our own. The latter may be largely ignored as being bloc members the area as a whole is not overly bothered.

 

[The Lobster]

The EU publishes much more info than the UK government does about Brexit and its impact. I recommend browsing the EU Brexit site. There's an interesting Q&A on UK (and EU) citizen rights during the transition period here https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pub...-uk-citizens-outlined-withdrawal-agreement_en

I for one will continue to keep my "SCO" badge instead of a GB one on the back of the van - in preparation for Scotland's re-entry/continued entry (depending on viewpoint). I found it quite a talking point in France last year with folk from elsewhere in Europe - in a good way.

 

[nicholsong]

The EU publishes much more info than the UK government does about Brexit and its impact. I recommend browsing the EU Brexit site. There's an interesting Q&A on UK (and EU) citizen rights during the transition period here https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/questions-and-answers-rights-eu-and-uk-citizens-outlined-withdrawal-agreement_e

The UK Has got info and thisis the latest e-mail notification

Update on GOV.UK. Living in the EU: prepare for Brexit Page summary Information for UK nationals living in the EU, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland or Ireland about preparing for Brexit. Change made Updated with information on the Withdrawal Agreement as it applies to UK nationals living in EU countries. Time updated 5:12pm, 19 December 2019

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Geoff

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[Cheshirecat57]

I think there are guidelines but each country will be able to implement them as they see fit. At the moment, overstaying your 90 days in the EU is generally ignored but this will change after the UK is no longer a member of the EU and after the transition period ends.
What people do now is irrelevant as it will all change soon

Just out of interest, how do you KNOW this WILL change?
May I suggest nobody KNOWS anything yet

 

[Cheshirecat57]

The EU publishes much more info than the UK government does about Brexit and its impact. I recommend browsing the EU Brexit site. There's an interesting Q&A on UK (and EU) citizen rights during the transition period here https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pub...-uk-citizens-outlined-withdrawal-agreement_en

I for one will continue to keep my "SCO" badge instead of a GB one on the back of the van - in preparation for Scotland's re-entry/continued entry (depending on viewpoint). I found it quite a talking point in France last year with folk from elsewhere in Europe - in a good way.

View attachment 355333

Will Scotland be building a border on re-entry to EU as per the requirements
Gosh, that’s going to cost a lot of Euros ?

 

[Coolcats]

Will Scotland be building a border on re-entry to EU as per the requirements
Gosh, that’s going to cost a lot of Euros ?

Nah they already have one pre-built it’s called Hadrian's Wall ?

 

[gus-lopez]

You cannot be a resident of two countries so all these ploys to get round overstaying your 90 days when the UK gives up its EU rights, just will not work.

Quite right , but the eu directive on residency & rights states
" no country can confer residncy on a citizen but the citizen chooses & states that they are a resident" They then have to apply for formal registration if the country requires it. Even if you apply & cannot meet the requirements you can never be expelled as an EU citizen.

 

[The Lobster]

Will Scotland be building a border on re-entry to EU as per the requirements
Gosh, that’s going to cost a lot of Euros ?

If you look at a road map there actually aren't many drivable roads that cross the Scotland-England border. So I don't see that as a practical issue that can't be easily addressed. Unlike Ireland there isn't the same sectarian history to make that a life threatening concern.

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[weejocky]

I for one will continue to keep my "SCO" badge instead of a GB one on the back of the van - in preparation for Scotland's re-entry/continued entry

 

[The Lobster]

The UK Has got info and thisis the latest e-mail notification

​

Update on GOV.UK. Living in the EU: prepare for Brexit Page summary Information for UK nationals living in the EU, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland or Ireland about preparing for Brexit. Change made Updated with information on the Withdrawal Agreement as it applies to UK nationals living in EU countries. Time updated 5:12pm, 19 December 2019

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Geoff

Unfortunately the UK gov doesn't seem to have updated it's info in line with the gov's own latest withdrawal agreement, so the best advice about the transition period still appears to be coming from the EU. See here... Broken Link Removed

 

[PhilandMena]

Going slightly away from the original post, Scottish independence is a matter for the Scott's I.M.O.and the main issues I see they need to resolve is. 1. getting all E.U. countries to agree to them joining. 2 Meet the economic entry requirements and agree which currency they will adopt. If the pound, they will have to comply with the Bank of Englands monetary rules. I suspect great pressure would be applied for them to adopt the Euro. I cant see a majority going for it, our relationship runs deep and is centuries old.

 

[The Lobster]

Going slightly away from the original post, Scottish independence is a matter for the Scott's I.M.O.and the main issues I see they need to resolve is. 1. getting all E.U. countries to agree to them joining. 2 Meet the economic entry requirements and agree which currency they will adopt. If the pound, they will have to comply with the Bank of Englands monetary rules. I suspect great pressure would be applied for them to adopt the Euro. I cant see a majority going for it, our relationship runs deep and is centuries old.

These are old arguments dealt with extensively in the run up to the last referendum. Since then Johnson and his friends have significantly soured the relationship. The old better together viewpoint has been disproved.

 

[Allanm]

Quite right , but the eu directive on residency & rights states
" no country can confer residncy on a citizen but the citizen chooses & states that they are a resident" They then have to apply for formal registration if the country requires it. Even if you apply & cannot meet the requirements you can never be expelled as an EU citizen.

But you won’t be an EU citizen after the UK leaves.
And there are cases in France where UK expats have already had their residency applications refused and been asked / forced to leave the country.
Anybody can apply for residency but if you don’t meet the requirements you will not be given residency.
As ever, the EU member state can interpret EU directives as they see fit. It may be different in Spain where they have reciprocal agreements with the UK over health care, but not in France. If you are deemed to be a burden on the economy you won’t be allowed to stay.

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[PhilandMena]

These are old arguments dealt with extensively in the run up to the last referendum. Since then Johnson and his friends have significantly soured the relationship. The old better together viewpoint has been disproved.

That may be so! These issue's still have to be faced though and I have yet to hear clarity from the S.N.P. on how these issues will be resolved. As I said before this is something for the Scott's and if the S.N.P have there way, perhaps all E.U. citizens residing in Scotland when and if the referendum takes place.

 

[Allanm]

Just out of interest, how do you KNOW this WILL change?
May I suggest nobody KNOWS anything yet

When the UK leaves the EU, the UK will be a Third Country and citizens will be Third Country Nationals.
There are existing rules already in place in the EU and Shenghen zones that all Third Country Nationals will have to follow.
There is nothing new in the rules other than when free movement stops, UK nationals will have none of the benefits of free movement that they enjoy now.
All this is because some people wanted to end the UK’s right to free movement within the EU.

 

[gus-lopez]

And there are cases in France where UK expats have already had their residency applications refused and been asked / forced to leave the country.

Which is illegal & should have been referred to the EU.

Anybody can apply for residency but if you don’t meet the requirements you will not be given residency.

True but you cannot legally be expelled or asked to leave as long as you are not a burden on the state; which you cannot be as having failed the residency requirements the state has no legal obligation to provide or assist with anything.

If you are deemed to be a burden on the economy you won’t be allowed to stay.

As above ,you cannot claim anything if you fail the requirements, the state does not have to provide anything. You cannot be legally asked to leave ,deported or expelled for any of the forgoing.
You cannot be a burden on the state.

But you won’t be an EU citizen after the UK leaves.

But I am a spanish permanent resident who will just be swopping his tatty piece of A4 for a new TIE card with fingerprint ,just like we had before & have wanted the return of for the last 12 years.

 

[Allanm]

Which is illegal & should have been referred to the EU.
True but you cannot legally be expelled or asked to leave as long as you are not a burden on the state; which you cannot be as having failed the residency requirements the state has no legal obligation to provide or assist with anything.
As above ,you cannot claim anything if you fail the requirements, the state does not have to provide anything. You cannot be legally asked to leave ,deported or expelled for any of the forgoing.
You cannot be a burden on the state.


But I am a spanish permanent resident who will just be swopping his tatty piece of A4 for a new TIE card with fingerprint ,just like we had before & have wanted the return of for the last 12 years.

Who in the EU would you refer it to?
As I said, it may be different in other countries but in France, if you don’t meet the requirements, you may be issued an ‘Obligation de Quitter le Territoire Francaise’. This is a formal letter informing you that you have 30 days to leave the country or be deported.
Despite the information you posted about the legality of being deported, in this instance it is incorrect.
If you don't meet, have never met, and can't meet the conditions for legal residence it's possible that you may not be permitted to stay in France.
In total 3,367 orders to leave France were issued to EU citizens in 2017 because of failure to meet the legal residence conditions.

Of course, you can then lodge an appeal, if you can afford it, ( a recours contentieux) but this can only be lodged by a specialist immigration lawyer.

Edited and added the following.
In simple terms, in France, if your income is below the minimum required, you will not be able to apply for or may be refused residency because you will not be able to afford healthcare and top up insurance, so you then become a burden on the state as the state will be under an obligation to provide some form of health care, at the very least, emergency care.

 

[Twos company]

So do I need a permit for France and Spain or not?

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[PhilandMena]

When the UK leaves the EU, the UK will be a Third Country and citizens will be Third Country Nationals.
There are existing rules already in place in the EU and Shenghen zones that all Third Country Nationals will have to follow.
There is nothing new in the rules other than when free movement stops, UK nationals will have none of the benefits of free movement that they enjoy now.
All this is because some people wanted to end the UK’s right to free movement within the EU.

I would disagree with that! We are not subjecting ourselves to these rules because 'some people wanted to end the UK’s right to free movement within the EU' We will be subject to these rules because the majority of UK citizens voted to leave the E.U. and for a number of different reasons.

 

[webby1]

Just out of interest, how do you KNOW this WILL change?
May I suggest nobody KNOWS anything yet

Yoiu forget all the people who "knew exactly what they were voting for" when they voted to leave

 

[PhilandMena]

So do I need a permit for France and Spain or not?

Nothing changes until the end of the transition period.

 

[nicholsong]

Unfortunately the UK gov doesn't seem to have updated it's info in line with the gov's own latest withdrawal agreement, so the best advice about the transition period still appears to be coming from the EU. See here... Broken Link Removed

Did you read the document in my post 95 and the link entitled 'Living in the EU......'

Plenty of references to the Withdrawal Agreement, issued on 19th Dec.

 

[soreeyes]

The EU publishes much more info than the UK government does about Brexit and its impact. I recommend browsing the EU Brexit site. There's an interesting Q&A on UK (and EU) citizen rights during the transition period here https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pub...-uk-citizens-outlined-withdrawal-agreement_en

I for one will continue to keep my "SCO" badge instead of a GB one on the back of the van - in preparation for Scotland's re-entry/continued entry (depending on viewpoint). I found it quite a talking point in France last year with folk from elsewhere in Europe - in a good way.

View attachment 355333

Bit confused as Scotland wants independence and then wants to stay in the EU when Brussels want to take control of the 27 members soverenty and control as one membership state controlled from Brussels ?

Scotland will loose independence wanting to staying the EU and pay for a EU army .

Good luck .

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[Paddywack]

Bit confused as Scotland wants independence and then wants to stay in the EU when Brussels want to take control of the 27 members soverenty and control as one membership state controlled from Brussels ?

Scotland will loose independence wanting to staying the EU and pay for a EU army .

Good luck .

I think I'd rather we were part of an EU army, than cannon fodder for Trump's army

 

[Deneb]

I think I'd rather we were part of an EU army, than cannon fodder for Trump's army

Don't worry, as he apparently didn't bother to tell us in advance that he was launching a strike in close proximity to our forces, we probably won't have any left anyway.

And we want to do a trade deal with him

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Yoiu forget all the people who "knew exactly what they were voting for" when they voted to leave

Sorry, I dont buy into that

the implication is that LEAVE voters did not know what they voted for
but REMAIN voters did

and REMAIN voters now KNOW what is going to happen

I will concede that as a LEAVE voter, 3 +Years on, I don't know for sure what is going to happen, but I would vote the same way in a breath tomorrow

Time to fall in line with the ( small) majority of 2016 and the HUGE endorsement if the same of 4 weeks ago

 

[MyrtleGuru]

I would disagree with that! We are not subjecting ourselves to these rules because 'some people wanted to end the UK’s right to free movement within the EU' We will be subject to these rules because the majority of UK citizens voted to leave the E.U. and for a number of different reasons.

Being pedantic, the majority of UK citizens did not vote to leave. Rather, it was the majority of those who chose to vote who voted to leave (based on a turnout of 72.2%):

​	Number​	%​
Remain​	16141242​	34.72​
Leave​	17410742​	37.45​
Rejected​	25359​	0.05​
Did not vote​	12918908​	27.78​
​	46496251​	100​

 

[Pete5996]

I would disagree with that! We are not subjecting ourselves to these rules because 'some people wanted to end the UK’s right to free movement within the EU' We will be subject to these rules because the majority of UK citizens voted to leave the E.U. and for a number of different reasons.

And I'll wager that high up in the 'number of different reasons' was being fed up with the waves of illegal immigrants flooding the country, a situation that has never been an EU issue but one created by British governments having no interest in controlling entry which they have signally failed to address over many years.

I also suspect that many Brits didn't think for a moment that 'freedom of movement' is a two-way thing and they, like the people they wish to stop from entering the UK, would be subject to exactly the same restrictions when travelling in the opposite direction. Unfortunately, the world has moved on from Days of Empire and we'll be treated just like any other Third Country National, with the additional obligations, requirements and restrictions that will involve.

So much to look forward to, eh?

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