KS ENERGY BATTERY UPDATE & WARRANTY

[irnbru]

As some of you will know, Alan recently had problems with his KS energy battery, and in particular the app showing 60 odd percent one minute then battery went flat the next and vice versa. Alan sent it back to KS energy for the battery to be tested. Its just been tested and below is his reply. I'm not sure if the bluetooth function is listed in the small print on warranty but I thought you should all know its only covered for 1 year. KS energy certainly don't put that in their sales info.

Hello Alan

The technician has completed a Full diagnostic inspection test on your battery with the following results;

Your battery is working fine and correctly with good capacity.

The issue is with the Bluetooth software inside which is corrupt.

The Bluetooth is only covered under warranty for one year and to replace would cost you £150 + vat



Alternatively, you could fit the Victron Smart Shunt or the BMV712 either one will help measure the correct

State of charge within the battery.

 

[Tombola]

As some of you will know, Alan recently had problems with his KS energy battery, and in particular the app showing 60 odd percent one minute then battery went flat the next and vice versa. Alan sent it back to KS energy for the battery to be tested. Its just been tested and below is his reply. I'm not sure if the bluetooth function is listed in the small print on warranty but I thought you should all know its only covered for 1 year. KS energy certainly don't put that in their sales info.

Hello Alan

The technician has completed a Full diagnostic inspection test on your battery with the following results;

Your battery is working fine and correctly with good capacity.

The issue is with the Bluetooth software inside which is corrupt.

The Bluetooth is only covered under warranty for one year and to replace would cost you £150 + vat



Alternatively, you could fit the Victron Smart Shunt or the BMV712 either one will help measure the correct

State of charge within the battery.

I certainly wasnt aware of this, . Maybe it compares similar to the warranty cost of a seperate stand alone blutooth module, I dunno, but if they have to replace it then it has to be paid for I suppose.
Ive always found the blue function has always been quite clunky, im not too impressed with it compared to previous ones Ive had on other batteries

KS energy were recently bought out/took over werent they ?

 

[Jim]

KS energy certainly don't put that in their sales info.

KS Energy was owned an operated by Neal. However, he sold it sold recently to Li-Gen Limited, a company from Tipperary, Ireland.

 

[Diabalo]

As some of you will know, Alan recently had problems with his KS energy battery, and in particular the app showing 60 odd percent one minute then battery went flat the next and vice versa. Alan sent it back to KS energy for the battery to be tested. Its just been tested and below is his reply. I'm not sure if the bluetooth function is listed in the small print on warranty but I thought you should all know its only covered for 1 year. KS energy certainly don't put that in their sales info.

Hello Alan

The technician has completed a Full diagnostic inspection test on your battery with the following results;

Your battery is working fine and correctly with good capacity.

The issue is with the Bluetooth software inside which is corrupt.

The Bluetooth is only covered under warranty for one year and to replace would cost you £150 + vat



Alternatively, you could fit the Victron Smart Shunt or the BMV712 either one will help measure the correct

State of charge within the battery.

If the software is corrupt I wonder why it just cant be updated like Victron does. Not a good advert is it.

 

[Jim]

I imagine they mean the bluetooth board, something like this rather than the software.

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[Jimbohorlicks]

It must be simpler than a £150 + vat fix.to fix a bluetooth issue. I dont think the blue tooth does anything apart from indicate the battery condition.
I wonder how many more warranties are not linked directly to the battery. Be interesting to see if there are any other funsters with similar problems.

 

[Diabalo]

It must be simpler than a £150 + vat fix.to fix a bluetooth issue. I dont think the blue tooth does anything apart from indicate the battery condition.
I wonder how many more warranties are not linked directly to the battery. Be interesting to see if there are any other funsters with similar problems.

That's my thought, you can get a complete BMS with bluetooth for £50 on fleabay

 

[TinaLes]

Knowing what Sandra has experienced, it would stop me buying a KS Energy Battery now.
It would be the 1st warranty question I would now ask from any battery supplier as if its not made obvious that its only the battery cells or the BMS that qualifies for the stipulated 6/10 year warranty, then it should be much clearer to the purchaser. To suggest that the buyer should buy a separate battery monitor to replace the one provided internally is just not fair IMHO.
Others will know, but what about the other major suppliers like Fogstar, Renogy et all, do they also not cover internal monitors sent by Bluetooth
LES

 

[eddie]

How can a warranty not cover an internal part?

Or do KS batteries only have a 12 month warranty?

Sterling give a five year Warranty

Perhaps that is why they are a 'drop in' allegedly they're out of warranty before you notice

 

[Jim]

I'd argue that the BT unit should be part of the warranty. They do try and exclude it in the warranty, weak signal, not connecrting to your phone etc. But a broken BT module is broken not weak. IMO If its broken, they should replace it

KS Energy are committed to providing industry leading product quality and service. We offer a 7 year warranty on all of our batteries for consumer use both in the UK & Europe as follows:-

From the date of purchase for 7 years we will at our option, replace or repair (which includes any part and/or labour) free of charge for any manufacturing fault free of charge. This encompasses all aspects of the product including but not limited to its case, terminals, battery management system (BMS) and the battery cells.
Please note that Bluetooth is not an essential feature for battery operation and issues with bluetooth (ie. weak signal, unsupported phone or app for example)
are not covered under warranty and failure of operation, either a fault with the app or the bluetooth module inside the battery is not covered by our warranty. Our warranty includes the costs of return carriage of the product to you within the UK only. Please note it does not include customer removal or forwarding costs which under all circumstances (out side of your statutory rights) KS Energy will not be liable for. In the instance of no faults found, we reserve the right to levy an appropriate charge to cover investigation, administration and carriage costs.

Warranty Information - KS Energy UK

Batteries KS Energy are committed to providing industry leading product quality and service. We offer a 7 year warranty on all of our batteries for consumer use both in the UK & Europe as follows:-From the date of purchase for 7 years we will at our option, replace or repair (which includes any...

www.ksenergy.co.uk

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[GMLS]

Knowing what Sandra has experienced, it would stop me buying a KS Energy Battery now.
It would be the 1st warranty question I would now ask from any battery supplier as if its not made obvious that its only the battery cells or the BMS that qualifies for the stipulated 6/10 year warranty, then it should be much clearer to the purchaser. To suggest that the buyer should buy a separate battery monitor to replace the one provided internally is just not fair IMHO.
Others will know, but what about the other major suppliers like Fogstar, Renogy et all, do they also not cover internal monitors sent by Bluetooth
LES

Bang on.KS now off my shortlist so will likely be Roamer or Frogstar depending on their position on this.Just not good enough.KS should leverage their buying power more and give more confidence to the overall product.May not be critical but a element they shout about

Edit
https://roamer.com/pages/warranty, so specifically excluded

Fogstar Drift Warranty Registration | Fogstar UK

Fogstar offers a fantastic 10 year warranty on all Fogstar Drift Leisure batteries - yep, we're that confident in our fantastic range of Lithium Leisure Batteries.

www.fogstar-drift.co.uk

, silent on the specifics

 

[Jim]

If the BT unit is an occasional failure, they'd just fix it FOC. If they are often failing and they feel the need to exclude it from the warranty, then it would make me think twice.

 

[Diabalo]

Just Checked Roamer's site and their warranty is the same, nearly word for word.

 

[irnbru]

I'd argue that the BT unit should be part of the warranty. They do try and exclude it in the warranty, weak signal, not connecrting to your phone etc. But a broken BT module is broken not weak. IMO If its broken, they should replace it

KS Energy are committed to providing industry leading product quality and service. We offer a 7 year warranty on all of our batteries for consumer use both in the UK & Europe as follows:-

From the date of purchase for 7 years we will at our option, replace or repair (which includes any part and/or labour) free of charge for any manufacturing fault free of charge. This encompasses all aspects of the product including but not limited to its case, terminals, battery management system (BMS) and the battery cells.
Please note that Bluetooth is not an essential feature for battery operation and issues with bluetooth (ie. weak signal, unsupported phone or app for example)
are not covered under warranty and failure of operation, either a fault with the app or the bluetooth module inside the battery is not covered by our warranty.

I agree, it’s not as if it’s something we could fix through a phone. In my mind I’d it’s corrupt software that should be down to KS energy to sort free of charge.

 

[MichaelT]

How can a warranty not cover an internal part?

Or do KS batteries only have a 12 month warranty?

Sterling give a five year Warranty

Perhaps that is why they are a 'drop in' allegedly they're out of warranty before you notice

10 year warranty on ours.

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[rupert]

10 year warranty on ours.

I hope it's better than my 7year warranty from KS energy

 

[Nanniemate]

Sounds like the hoover fridge freezer I bought didn't last 2 years , with 10 year parts guarantee but if you don't by their additional insurance the call out fee is more than the fridge

 

[Dave101]

I think most of the "Lithium Battery Assemblers" (which is what they are..) are at the mercy of the BMS manufacturer's when it comes to the the bluetooth functionality, few if any make there own BMS's.
I know that Daly (BMS manufacturer) recently updated their App which caused older BMS's to no longer connect... some of the first Sterling Lithium batteries fitted with the Daly bms were affected by this update.
I guess it's one of the things they didn't consider when first applying multi year warranties...
Obviously the issue with firmware corruption of the OP is probably more of an isolated case, I guess it depends how they deal with such faults that matters.
I'm aware of one Sterling customer who was offered a Shunt as a way of dealing with the Daly app connection failure.

For what's its worth, I find the accuracy of the internal Hall Effect device & associated Bluetooth app pretty poor anyway and would rather rely solely on a Victron shunt to monitor SOC etc.

 

[Diabalo]

Interesting, just been on Fogstar's site and no mention of BMS or Bluetooth not being a part of the warranty. I suppose until it's tested we won't know.

WARRANTY

• Fogstar offers a 10 year warranty on all Fogstar Drift Leisure batteries.
• Warranties only apply to the original owner and are non-transferrable.
• Fogstar will verify your purchase prior to processing any warranty claims or returns.
• If it is determined that the product is faulty, we will ship a new product to you immediately, you will only be asked to cover the cost of the shipping.
• Our warranty does not cover items that have been damaged due to gross negligence, normal wear and tear, damage due to accident or collision, abuse or incorrect installation.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

I think most of the "Lithium Battery Assemblers" (which is what they are..) are at the mercy of the BMS manufacturer's when it comes to the the bluetooth functionality, few if any make there own BMS's.
I know that Daly (BMS manufacturer) recently updated their App which caused older BMS's to no longer connect... some of the first Sterling Lithium batteries fitted with the Daly bms were affected by this update.
I guess it's one of the things they didn't consider when first applying multi year warranties...
Obviously the issue with firmware corruption of the OP is probably more of an isolated case, I guess it depends how they deal with such faults that matters.
I'm aware of one Sterling customer who was offered a Shunt as a way of dealing with the Daly app connection failure.

For what's its worth, I find the accuracy of the internal Hall Effect device & associated Bluetooth app pretty poor anyway and would rather rely solely on a Victron shunt to monitor SOC etc.

Yep my 2020 installed Sterling battery Bluetooth won't connect. Never did see it working as it's only in the last year or so that I had a compatible phone. I'd already fitted a Victron Smartshunt so I could worry myself about how much battery I'd used.

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[Hoovie]

This warranty exclusion for a bluetooth BMS seems strange to me - and many others here - and that Roamer have the same - word for word - exclusion rung alarm bells in case this was industry-wide but not publicised!
So I emailed yesterday the owner of the company I use for all my batteries - Alpha Batteries - and quoting the KS Energy text, and linking to the warranty page on KS Energy's website - asked them directly if they (Alpha) have any such exclusions. (I didn't think they would, but just to make sure....)

This is the reply I got this morning ....

---

"This KSENERGY warranty stance is strange and unheard of with all the Lithium suppliers and manufacturers I have dealt with
We have no such exclusions for sure
Regards
John"

---

So no ambiguity there

 

[dpsuk999]

Glad to say Fogstar have no such exclusions either

 

[Barti Ddu]

Forget the warranty. Start proceedings under Consumer Rights Act 2015. Not fit for purpose. Not of satisfactory quality. Your CRA'15 rights last for 6 years from date of purchase.
Send letter / email before action giving them a last chance to do the right thing.
You don't need to get out of your armchair / deckchair to start the claim. Go to www.moneyclaim.gov.uk to start it.

 

[rupert]

Final chapter (hopefully)... KS e'mail informing me battery is now repaired with no charge to me, and on it's way via UPS.
I spoke to Rob at KS who told me the bluetooth was corrupt ??
The tech. guy said the BMS had a faulty connection so the BMS was replaced also
The cells were all good and a new battery case was required
I've not got it back yet, but hoping all is well.
My thanks go out to irnbru for starting this thread and all the Funsters that have taken an interest in highlighting the issue
A good result from KS.

 

[paddymcc]

Glad to hear they sorted it free of charge.

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[Hoovie]

Final chapter (hopefully)... KS e'mail informing me battery is now repaired with no charge to me, and on it's way via UPS.
I spoke to Rob at KS who told me the bluetooth was corrupt ??
The tech. guy said the BMS had a faulty connection so the BMS was replaced also
The cells were all good and a new battery case was required
I've not got it back yet, but hoping all is well.
My thanks go out to irnbru for starting this thread and all the Funsters that have taken an interest in highlighting the issue
A good result from KS.

It really should not have been a case of "if" though, should it?

As an aside, I like the Lithium batteries where they are maintainable, e.g. the tops can be removed with screwdrivers to access the internal components.
The last two Lithiums I installed in my own Motorhome had this feature.

IMG_20220503_144132_3 by David, on Flickr
Both the new Polarmax and the previous Poweroad Infinity could have the lids removed should a repair be needed. Makes much more sense in a product that does not need to be sealed to contain acidic substances.

 

[poppycamper]

I was, I believe a pioneer for KS Energy Battery's and I got mine before they introduced blue tooth this and blue tooth that.
I have a votronic shunt and it tells me all I need to know about battery condition. I know what's going in, what's coming out and most importantly what's left.
IMHO people rely too much on the bluetooth info, most of which most poeple don't understand and dont need to know.

 

[MichaelT]

I was, I believe a pioneer for KS Energy Battery's and I got mine before they introduced blue tooth this and blue tooth that.
I have a votronic shunt and it tells me all I need to know about battery condition. I know what's going in, what's coming out and most importantly what's left.
IMHO people rely too much on the bluetooth info, most of which most poeple don't understand and dont need to know.

I don't have a shunt but just look at the App and it tells me all I need to know, SOC, charging/discharging/stand by etc. and if charging or discharging by how much. From what I've seen of the shunts is a lot of confusing data.

 

[Tombola]

I don't have a shunt but just look at the App and it tells me all I need to know, SOC, charging/discharging/stand by etc. and if charging or discharging by how much. From what I've seen of the shunts is a lot of confusing data.

I havent used a shunt for 3 years now for the same reason.

 

[Hoovie]

Something like a Victron BMV and other power monitors and the data they provide can be interesting for those interested in that kind of thing; useful to see what you are doing and what kind of power devices use; and useful to others if you don't either understand or greatly care, but are having issues. It is a bit like having a spare wheel and jack... maybe YOU are not in a position to be able to change a flat tyre, but at least you have the tools for someone else to help you out.

What I think is definately the case is all the unneccessary talk and discussions about the BMS (Battery Management System for anyone who didn't know and didn't want to ask) within a Lithium Battery. Does it Top Balance? does it Bottom Balance? are all the cells equal? can I change it for another make? does it make a cup of tea? For 99.9% of people, they either don't know what that all means, or they don't actually care (+1 for me ). They buy a battery to use and trust that it has been designed and built properly. End of the story really.
Being able to see pages and pages of BMS setup info and tweaking this and adjusting that is just plain daft, unless the battery has been provided in an unconfigured state and needs setting up - which surely should never be the case unless you are actually building the battery yourself?? 100 adjustable settings gives you so many ways to actually make things WORSE, I would recommend to just about anyone to not change a single one! and anyone who does understand what they can change, why, and to what to, will not be asking me or probably asking at all on a Motorhome forum.

I am not saying people should not enjoy discussing BMS setups (hey, let's all turn into 'Andys Off-Grid Garage' or whatever) but that is a totally different past time and interest from the typical Motorhomer where they bought a Lithium battery to get extra power into their van and not because they wanted a whole new hobby.

The amount of people I used to talk to who wanted to discuss if this cell being higher than that cell was an issue, or should they kick off a balance routine or update the firmware because the app told them there was a new version, and they honestly really don't know about battery technology, is frightning! It's a blooming battery! leave it alone!
(yes, I have oversimplified there at the end, but a little knowledge coupled with a display that tells you 1% of something you need to know and 99% of rest you don't is a PITA).

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