Kingspan insulation

[Brains]

Kingspan is the correct product in the correct situation but also the wrong product in the wrong situation. We weren't the designers so don't know why it was used.

True, however as the Enquiry has found, Kingspan were well aware that their products should not be used in certain situations, but deliberately kept this information secret.
For this, someone at Kingspan, will probably end up under His Majesty's Pleasure, and/or paying a massive penalty.

 

[Ian_H]

True, however as the Enquiry has found, Kingspan were well aware that their products should not be used in certain situations, but deliberately kept this information secret.
For this someone at Kingspan will probably end up under His Majesty's Pleasure, and/or paying a massive penalty.

It would be good if they were jailed, but my money is on the people responsible retiring before anything happens or the company as a whole being fined. Can't see individuals being jailed (compare to post office farce)

 

[dunnah01]

True, however as the Enquiry has found, Kingspan were well aware that their products should not be used in certain situations, but deliberately kept this information secret.
For this someone at Kingspan will probably end up under His Majesty's Pleasure, and/or paying a massive penalty.

Any designer will look at the spec and testing to see if the product is suitable for the specific use.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

I read somewhere that the wooden buildings in the great fire of London didn't fare too well.......

6 recorded deaths, though.
Mike.

 

[Brains]

Any designer will look at the spec and testing to see if the product is suitable for the specific use.

Agreed.

However the Enquiry has found Kingspan suppressed the report and the video showing what actually happens with when the cladding was set fire to.
Therefore any designer looking at the spec will not find any problem with the chosen use.

Kingspan were not going to tell the market their product was a massive danger to all concerned, which is why is now has to be removed for over 4,000 buildings over 18m in the UK alone.

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[Brains]

6 recorded deaths, though.
Mike.

Same number as those killed at the Lakanal Fire in 2009
Which was also caused by burning cladding.

The various authorities at the time should have gone into overdrive to ensure the incident never happened again, but it took 72 deaths at Grenfell, and almost identical situation, in 2017 before anything was done.

 

[Gromett]

Consequently thatch roof coverings were banned in London (and still are to this day).
They were also banned in most towns and cities throughout England.
There was a great change to pantiles in the late 1600's.

You can still spot the roofs that were originally thatched and replaced by tile in many of our cities as the roof pitch is greater than 90 degrees
(and they often have a bowed ridge line due to the extra weight).

I didn't know any of that. Most interesting. Thank you for sharing

 

[Scotch mist]

Kingspan type products & spray foam in timber framed houses are mentioned in building standards as a concern & are monitoring the problems
They are beginning to find mould growing in the timber frames
They say it can’t breath so has the ability (in certain conditions) to cause condensation
Rolls of insulation & breathable membranes seem to be now preferred, this can be fitted with no air gap ,

In a MoHo I wouldn’t be worried at all

 

[jezport]

Hymers use pu foam should be worried?

GRP is flammable also.

 

[Pausim]

I know the criminal prosecutions for Grenfell are still some years away but is there anything stopping civil action against Kingspan? Could the owners of an affected block now sue Kingspan for the cost of removal and replacement of cladding. There seems to be clear evidence that Kingspan lied and hid the known problems with their product. I would want to be at the front of the queue to sue them because they could well end up liquidated before this is over.

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[gus-lopez]

Personally in a van conversion I would use quilt insulation,

I use sheeps wool.

However the Enquiry has found Kingspan suppressed the report and the video showing what actually happens with when the cladding was set fire to.
Therefore any designer looking at the spec will not find any problem with the chosen use.

Then they have condemned themselves.
Mind anything I used I always tried to set it alight to see how flammable it was. When installing mosquito screens in house the stuff we used would not burn whereas many others do.

 

[meanders]

I would want to be at the front of the queue to sue them because they could well end up liquidated before this is over.

Their PLI should cover any such costs. It's the reputational damage and loss of sales that is much more likely to bring the company down and is generally uninsurable.

 

[Pausim]

Their PLI should cover any such costs. It's the reputational damage and loss of sales that is much more likely to bring the company down and is generally uninsurable.

Perhaps but insurance companies don’t like misrepresentation or deliberate acts with foreseeable consequences. They will be looking for an exit.

 

[Coolcats]

The problem is though at least European wide and possibly worldwide. No-one wants regulations, and moans about it, but although not the sole cause, the drive to deregulate seems to have played a very key part in diverting attention away from the safety aspects. Government and civil servants seem to have a lot to answer for. Unfortunately we see it time and time again where (very often political) priorities cause severe issues elsewhere.

One issue is when governments do regulate people complain of a nanny state or to much red tape. The issue is self regulation and the construction trade here will even if not acknowledge it know where short cuts or where regulations have not been met due to cost savings or making money.

 

[Pausim]

One issue is when governments do regulate people complain of a nanny state or to much red tape. The issue is self regulation and the construction trade here will even if not acknowledge it know where short cuts or where regulations have not been met due to cost savings or making money.

The nanny state and red tape is only needed because some people and some companies are greedy.

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[Coolcats]

The nanny state and red tape is only needed because some people and some companies are greedy.

Exactly and is a buffer and safety net for all of us and a positive thing rather than a term that is often used

 

[Ian_H]

Self regulation never works. There are always businesses that will push too far.
While working at a global pharma company in the UK I was impressed by how petrified they were when the american FDA came over to inspect them. The inspections were very thorough too. The possibility of having sales suspended in the US really focussed minds.

 

[CAB96]

Have just read the Phase 2 Executive Summary (work related).

If all the recommendations are taken on, then it's a lot of money and essentially a new Govt Dept.

But then, other countries do the same, because they think it necessary in order to keep their citizens safe, so they find the resources to do so.

The state of the regulatory regime is absolutely shocking. Just the completely inadequate building control, which you can also see from frequent reports of shoddy house building, should be enough to convince anyone that the whole system is not fit for purpose.

I very rarely use that phrase (not fit for purpose). I see it so often in other posts where I don't agree, or think it overblown.

But in this case, it is entirely accurate.

 

[grumps147]

Again, lots of kingspan products made from different materials with different fire (and other) properties. Certainly not defending anything they have done, just pointing out many people seem to think there is one kingspan product made from one material with one set of properties.

Some excellent and reassuring responses that have addressed my main personal concerns, I can see its clearly a case of do your research properly and you should not have a problem using it in a vehicle.

Thank you everyone.