Just bought an eco worthy 100ah lithium

[Lenny HB]

Tiurn the engine shutdown detection off and switch it via the D+, only proper way to do it.

 

[Raul]

The Votronic has life po4 charging profiles for it's leisure battery output, I selected profile E that charges to 14.2v then maintains at 13.6v

I'm not familiar with votronic duo, I was only pointing out to those settings you posted. If you charge a lithium battery with that device, then the adaptive absorption should be disabled. That function is to estimate absorption time for lead acid types of batteries, with different voltages compared to lithium. It will skew the absorb since lithium will have different voltage.

 

[Richard n Ann]

I'm not familiar with votronic duo, I was only pointing out to those settings you posted. If you charge a lithium battery with that device, then the adaptive absorption should be disabled. That function is to estimate absorption time for lead acid types of batteries, with different voltages compared to lithium. It will skew the absorb since lithium will have different voltage.

Ohhh the screenshot of the victron orion settings, yes I've changed those

 

[Richard n Ann]

Tiurn the engine shutdown detection off and switch it via the D+, only proper way to do it.

So a D+ through a switch onto the H terminal?

 

[Richard n Ann]

I've found the old fridge element feed which is now disused as I've got a compressor fridge, it goes to 14.1v with engine running. So I'll use that as it's a convenient connection

The D+ is there at the fuse box(orange & red) I'll leave that connected so the habitation electric goes off with ignition

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[Raul]

So a D+ through a switch onto the H terminal?

You need to enable the engine detection, leave values as they are, then connect the D+ to L pin to override the detection values.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Orion_XS_12-12-50A_DC-DC_battery_charger/124067-Orion_XS_DC-DC_battery_charger-pdf-en.pdf

 

[Richard n Ann]

You need to enable the engine detection, leave values as they are, then connect the D+ to L pin to override the detection values.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Orion_XS_12-12-50A_DC-DC_battery_charger/124067-Orion_XS_DC-DC_battery_charger-pdf-en.pdf

It says here to switch engine detection off

Also the diagrams are as clear as mud, they talk about ignition switched but the diagrams show just switching to positives and nowhere is D+ mentioned. Can someone point out or draw me a simple diagram, it must be really easy to do

 

[Richard n Ann]

So it wants to be diagram B But instead of switching to a positive input you're switching to D+
?

 

[AdrianChen]

My Engine shutdown detection is switched off - then I have removed the jumper wire from the H/L connector, and stuffed a D+ cable into the H terminal - works perfectly.....

 

[Richard n Ann]

Fully committed now, I've ordered the lithium victron 15a charger it's long and thin so will go on the bottom left. I've run out of 10awg cable now so finished for the day.

The lithium is STILL charging though, voltage now at 13.9 and amps dropping steadily, on 3 amps now, charger says it's on absorption still.

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[Barti Ddu]

If you've a standard alternator that instantly outputs a steady 14.1v then just use the engine detection and forget about wiring up to the D+.

After all, you've bought a Victron B2B with this clever voltage sensing technology so why not fully utilise what you've paid for.

I've the same B2B as you, also with a standard non-smart alternator and it works faultlessly.

 

[gus-lopez]

Readkng all this I think that when I finally get around to fitting my 280Ah lithium I can't see me needing the TR or XS as at present the 400w of solar maintains 14,4v+ here most days. I've been running a compressor fridge since november on 2 odd lead acids that total aboyt 180Ah without any problems? I suppose I might need it if it is bad weather again in the UK though?

 

[Lenny HB]

My Engine shutdown detection is switched off - then I have removed the jumper wire from the H/L connector, and stuffed a D+ cable into the H terminal - works perfectly.....

That's how mine is wired, works percectly

 

[Richard n Ann]

Readkng all this I think that when I finally get around to fitting my 280Ah lithium I can't see me needing the TR or XS as at present the 400w of solar maintains 14,4v+ here most days. I've been running a compressor fridge since november on 2 odd lead acids that total aboyt 180Ah without any problems? I suppose I might need it if it is bad weather again in the UK though?

Depends what else you use, 400w for a fridge is plenty even in UK... Maybe not in winter mind

 

[Just smiffy]

If you've a standard alternator that instantly outputs a steady 14.1v then just use the engine detection and forget about wiring up to the D+.

After all, you've bought a Victron B2B with this clever voltage sensing technology so why not fully utilise what you've paid for.

I've the same B2B as you, also with a standard non-smart alternator and it works faultlessly.

#metoo…

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[Lenny HB]

If you've a standard alternator that instantly outputs a steady 14.1v then just use the engine detection and forget about wiring up to the D+.

Last thing you want to do if you have solar or mains charging the starter battery. The B2B will cycle on & off when you don't want it to.
D+ is the proper way to wire them, voltage sensing is a hangover from early B2B's.

 

[Raul]

It says here to switch engine detection off

View attachment 1035357

Also the diagrams are as clear as mud, they talk about ignition switched but the diagrams show just switching to positives and nowhere is D+ mentioned. Can someone point out or draw me a simple diagram, it must be really easy to do

My apologies for confusing things, is what I read in the manual.
Listen to the guys already using one, I happy to learn along

But, I definitely recommend D+ if you got it.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Well during the night voltage must have reached 14.2, the charger finally changed from absorption to float mode and is now sat at 13.5v.

Here's a thought, if absorption is limited to 30 minutes or whatever, the battery will never reach 14.2v. It took it hours yesterday.. All day in fact

 

[AdrianChen]

Well during the night voltage must have reached 14.2, the charger finally changed from absorption to float mode and is now sat at 13.5v.

Here's a thought, if absorption is limited to 30 minutes or whatever, the battery will never reach 14.2v. It took it hours yesterday.. All day in fact

The charger settings should be set to absorption 14.2v and float 13.5v for example.

With a 3 stage charger the 3 stages will be Bulk Absorption Float.

In bulk the charger gives its maximum output in current, and the batteries voltage will slowly increase as it charges up - it's very noticeable with lead acid since the battery may start at 12.2v for example, and after a while on bulk you will see it rise up to say 13.9. Its less noticeable on LiFePo4 because the voltage changes less. Either way the battery will at some point hit the defined absorption voltage 14.2v while in bulk.

At this point a lithium is fully charged, and you could switch off the charger (lead acid is around 80% charged so needs more time but no higher voltage) A lithium at this voltage will be accepting almost no charge current, it will have reduced its acceptance dramatically at around 13.7v. On a van if there are loads on, then the charger will also be supplying those.......

As soon as the battery does get to the Absorption voltage the charger will stop outputting the maximum current it can, and change to outputting the fixed absorption voltage, in the EG 14.2v, lithiums will be taking very little during absorption since the battery's voltage and charger output voltage will be the same, mine start cell balancing at 14.2v so I might see 0.2amps flowing. In practical terms cell balancing is the only purpose of absorption for lithiums. (for LA it allows time for the chemical reaction deeper inside the lead plates to take place, and charge the last 20% - that's why Gel takes so long, liquid can "get in there quicker").

So after a fixed time on absorption, and with cell balancing complete, a lithium should be fully charged and balanced and ready to go so needs no more so the charger could switch off. In the context of a van, the float charge will supply the van, and keep the battery full and ready for the OffGrid times. In longer periods of standby it will also stop the battery from self discharging - which is very low with lithium.

So in your case something was not right - the battery charger should not switch to absorption until the battery reached the set figure (14.2v), so I would start by checking its settings/output. in any case 13.5v is good for float.

 

[Raul]

Well during the night voltage must have reached 14.2, the charger finally changed from absorption to float mode and is now sat at 13.5v.

Here's a thought, if absorption is limited to 30 minutes or whatever, the battery will never reach 14.2v. It took it hours yesterday.. All day in fact

How do you know when it reached absorb, at first charge maybe it took a while to get to absorb, and it was bulking quite a bit just under 14.2v before it hit absorb.
Also the absorb time, did you set it manually?

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[Richard n Ann]

How do you know when it reached absorb, at first charge maybe it took a while to get to absorb, and it was bulking quite a bit just under 14.2v before it hit absorb.
Also the absorb time, did you set it manually?

I don't know but it must have reached it quickly which doesn't make sense because the battery was at about 40% when delivered.

The charger I was using is a 10 amp on gel setting. Which is 14.2 absorption and 13.5 float. Looks like the absorption time has no limit and terminates on current, it was down to about 3a when I went to bed.

At first I thought the charger would be ok for the few times we have hook up, however I've ordered the 15 amp Victron IP22 charger which might come today

 

[Richard n Ann]

The charger settings should be set to absorption 14.2v and float 13.5v for example.

With a 3 stage charger the 3 stages will be Bulk Absorption Float.

In bulk the charger gives its maximum output in current, and the batteries voltage will slowly increase as it charges up - it's very noticeable with lead acid since the battery may start at 12.2v for example, and after a while on bulk you will see it rise up to say 13.9. Its less noticeable on LiFePo4 because the voltage changes less. Either way the battery will at some point hit the defined absorption voltage 14.2v while in bulk.

At this point a lithium is fully charged, and you could switch off the charger (lead acid is around 80% charged so needs more time but no higher voltage) A lithium at this voltage will be accepting almost no charge current, it will have reduced its acceptance dramatically at around 13.7v. On a van if there are loads on, then the charger will also be supplying those.......

As soon as the battery does get to the Absorption voltage the charger will stop outputting the maximum current it can, and change to outputting the fixed absorption voltage, in the EG 14.2v, lithiums will be taking very little during absorption since the battery's voltage and charger output voltage will be the same, mine start cell balancing at 14.2v so I might see 0.2amps flowing. In practical terms cell balancing is the only purpose of absorption for lithiums. (for LA it allows time for the chemical reaction deeper inside the lead plates to take place, and charge the last 20% - that's why Gel takes so long, liquid can "get in there quicker").

So after a fixed time on absorption, and with cell balancing complete, a lithium should be fully charged and balanced and ready to go so needs no more so the charger could switch off. In the context of a van, the float charge will supply the van, and keep the battery full and ready for the OffGrid times. In longer periods of standby it will also stop the battery from self discharging - which is very low with lithium.

So in your case something was not right - the battery charger should not switch to absorption until the battery reached the set figure (14.2v), so I would start by checking its settings/output. in any case 13.5v is good for float.

When in Absorption then should the battery terminal voltage be 14.2? Because my voltage was slowly rising, was on about 14v when I went to bed but the charger was showing absorption.

 

[AdrianChen]

In a no load situation once the charger sees it has reached the absorption voltage, it should switch from bulk (current focus) to absorption (fixed voltage) in absorption then battery voltage should be at that setting.

Gel will have a timed setting for absorption of around 8 hours normally.....

 

[Richard n Ann]

The charger was acting like it was still in bulk then which is C3, but it was showing C4.

This is the charger :

12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine

12V solar panel solar charging kits for motorhome caravan boat campervan yacht marine off-grid

www.photonicuniverse.com

Anyway hopefully I'll have a new charger to obsess over today
Thanks for your replies

 

[Lenny HB]

I find with my charger which I have limited 90 amps when it goes to absorbtion at about 92-95% and charge rate drops to 20-30 amps for an hour or two, then goes to float at 13.5 which normally means no charge if there is no load.

OK I'm talking much higher figures but same principle.

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[AdrianChen]

I find with my charger which I have limited 90 amps when it goes to absorbtion at about 92-95% and charge rate drops to 20-30 amps for an hour or two, then goes to float at 13.5 which normally means no charge if there is no load.

OK I'm talking much higher figures but same principle.

Mine from a few days back - battery was pretty full and it was solar doing the charging reading at 15min intervals:

Opps missed the amp scale - peaked at 15 dotted line 0

 

[Richard n Ann]

Charger came today at 4pm. Not finished yet, just one wire to run in between starter battery wire in the fuse box and B to B. Then the 2 new chargers will be in parallel on the new battery.
Think I'll have to use custom setting on the mains charger as the li-ion parameters are set to float at 13.8v

 

[AdrianChen]

Charger came today at 4pm. Not finished yet, just one wire to run in between starter battery wire in the fuse box and B to B. Then the 2 new chargers will be in parallel on the new battery.
Think I'll have to use custom setting on the mains charger as the li-ion parameters are set to float at 13.8v

View attachment 1035965

Does it also have a storage setting?

 

[Richard n Ann]

Does it also have a storage setting?

Yes on custom settings, it was on 13.5 so I changed it to 13.2.
I left the fridge on last night so it can do a charge later

 

[Affinite]

Last thing you want to do if you have solar or mains charging the starter battery. The B2B will cycle on & off when you don't want it to.
D+ is the proper way to wire them, voltage sensing is a hangover from early B2B's.

Lenny,
why is D+ the "proper way"
Genuinly interested to know.
I've just fitted an Orion TR12:12:30 B2B for my AGM battery but I too have an Ecoworthy 100AHr on the way.
The Victron manual with the B2B says that the charger is compatible with Smart Alternators (I do have one) using "engine on sequence". Does this feature not work properly?

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