it's 23:45, you've been drinking, and there's a knock on the door....

I think ( I hope) the police have better things to do than try to make a case out of something that is clearly not happening.
In my previous career as a police traffic officer, I wouldn’t have dreamed of hassling anyone quite obviously parked for the night, whether they had been drinking or not.
It is quite obvious if someone is or isn’t in charge of a vehicle in these circumstances, and if you are not 100% sure, a few polite questions will satisfy you one way or another.
Locking the keys away or hiding them ( or saying you have done so if asked where the keys are) is a waste of time and just might raise suspicions in a “ keen “ officers that you are indeed going to drive away once said officer has left the scene.
It’s best just to behave normally
 
Allanm said:
I think ( I hope) the police have better things to do than try to make a case out of something that is clearly not happening.
In my previous career as a police traffic officer, I wouldn’t have dreamed of hassling anyone quite obviously parked for the night, whether they had been drinking or not.
It is quite obvious if someone is or isn’t in charge of a vehicle in these circumstances, and if you are not 100% sure, a few polite questions will satisfy you one way or another.
Locking the keys away or hiding them ( or saying you have done so if asked where the keys are) is a waste of time and just might raise suspicions in a “ keen “ officers that you are indeed going to drive away once said officer has left the scene.
It’s best just to behave normally
Click to expand...

A traffic officer with a heart? How very quaint :D2

(says the ex-dog handler) :whistle:
 
Allanm said:
I think ( I hope) the police have better things to do than try to make a case out of something that is clearly not happening.
In my previous career as a police traffic officer, I wouldn’t have dreamed of hassling anyone quite obviously parked for the night, whether they had been drinking or not.
It is quite obvious if someone is or isn’t in charge of a vehicle in these circumstances, and if you are not 100% sure, a few polite questions will satisfy you one way or another.
Locking the keys away or hiding them ( or saying you have done so if asked where the keys are) is a waste of time and just might raise suspicions in a “ keen “ officers that you are indeed going to drive away once said officer has left the scene.
It’s best just to behave normally
Click to expand...
Totally agree with that sentiment, which is why similarly, I never disturbed a parked motorhome during the night, nor do I recollect any of my former traffic colleagues having done so and which likely explains why no one has come forward to give an example of having been arrested under such circumstances.
 
Kingham said:
Why's that a 'Doh!'

You might not have as much physical control over the vehicle, but even without the servos running, there will still be a bit of braking ability, or even use of a handbrake. Steering would be problematic with the steering lock applied, but you'd still be considered to be driving, even if it's just in the direction that the steering is locked in.

You'd still legally be in control, irrespective of where the key is.
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But you would be pissed enough not to care anyway.

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Allanm said:
I retired from the police over 16 years ago. It’s all different now.......(n)
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I once locked someone up for OPL after finding him asleep in his car. :eek:

Mind you, that was 1989. Oh! And he still had the remnants of the fence that he had destroyed festooned around his car. That had something to do with it. :rolleyes:
 
Kingham said:
Why's that a 'Doh!'

You might not have as much physical control over the vehicle, but even without the servos running, there will still be a bit of braking ability, or even use of a handbrake. Steering would be problematic with the steering lock applied, but you'd still be considered to be driving, even if it's just in the direction that the steering is locked in.

You'd still legally be in control, irrespective of where the key is.
Click to expand...
Erm, ever heard of a 'joke'?
 
surely after a skinful the previous night you are more likely to be pulled over as you leave the pub next day. alcohol takes a very long time to leave your system

there was a spate of mums breathalised and arrested on the morning school run locally. story has it one was reported to the police and out of spite she reported the other mums who she suspected reported her
 
DUI was a pet hate of mine when serving , I even put a local DCI on, which didn't go down too well (long time ago) , but never tried to make a case against a genuine non driver , although do recollect one who I waited half an hour for , he didn't disappoint , he obviously thought he was "safe" after 30 mins, wrong decision ! :)
If you are genuine , my colleagues had the same approach , when you see the frequent catastrophic results of drink driving , there isn't any sympathy if you make the wrong decision .
 
Police don't have to prove intent to drive.
Just that someone was unfit through drink or drugs and in charge of a motor vehicle
There is no legal definition for in charge as far as I'm aware but there are (usually obvious) accepted situations ...
For a prosecution to be successful or even be considered there has to have been a likelihood that you will drive (or have just driven).
Jim's post sums it up really well.
There's no chance that being pissed and sleeping/living in your van will get you prosecuted for drink drive.
I'm happy to be proved wrong
 
How about this scenario...

you are sound asleep and a 6.30am you are awakened by an almighty bang.. the brewery beer delivery lorry backs into to your van and does substantial damage.. technically you are in charge of the van and still drunk....

The driver doesn't admit responsibility, the landlord denies giving you permission to sleep overnight in his car park .. he won't admit he did as he could be prosecuted by the council for allowing his car park to be used as a camping site .. which is against the 1960 Caravan Sites act ..


Your insurer may not cover you if you have been drinking.. and technically in charge ..

what happens next ?
 
scotjimland said:
How about this scenario...

you are sound asleep and a 6.30am you are awakened by an almighty bang.. the brewery beer delivery lorry backs into to your van and does substantial damage.. technically you are in charge of the van and still drunk....

The driver doesn't admit responsibility, the landlord denies giving you permission to sleep overnight in his car park .. he won't admit he did as he could be prosecuted by the council for allowing his car park to be used as a camping site .. which is against the 1960 Caravan Sites act ..


Your insurer may not cover you if you have been drinking.. and technically in charge ..

what happens next ?
Click to expand...


Who's likely to breathalise you on private property?

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Barclaybasher said:
Who's likely to breathalise you on private property?
Click to expand...


you can be breathalyzed in any car park that has public access

the RT Act applies in private car parks, such as supermarkets, pubs etc when they are open to the public.. and the gates were open, the brewery lorry entered..

what happens next was the question .. you have been involved in a RTA and drunk in charge
 
scotjimland said:
don't recall saying they were.. but in any case
you can be breathalyzed in any car park that has public access

the RT Act applies in private car parks, such as supermarkets, pubs etc when they are open to the public.. and the gates were open, the brewery lorry entered..

what happens next was the question .. you have been involved in a RTA and drunk in charge
Click to expand...

most pub carparks don't have gates and even the bars in Magaluf are closed at 6.30 - not open to the public

who's going to call the police? Landlord and lorry driver? ...............proof of being drunk ??

nothing will happen
 
did you say that a wagon full of beer accidentally backed into you, that wagon is now potentially damaged and shouldn't be driven, and the wagon's full of beer, probably the beer is damaged and will need testing, I'd get some glasses and immediately start a massive party in the car park :) we just need a minibus full of Polish lap dancers to crash into the beer wagon now ;)
 
Paul J said:
the gasman was alway going to keep his keys in the gas locker, where was the toiletman going to keep his ?

good point though, I guess as long as the cops couldn't find the keys. I'd be an arse with them, if they wanted to try to prove something so stupid, I'd be happy to suggest that I'd lost them, just put them somewhere hard to find. I'm worrying about nothing
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Your words, except the last sentence, are a hypothesis that will not occur. The last sentence is correct.
 
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scotjimland said:
what happens next was the question .. you have been involved in a RTA and drunk in charge
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Yes you are Drunk-in-charge, even if you've hidden your keys etc... You're guilty at that point. Its up to you to prove you had no intention of driving. Just saying so might not be enough so you need to back your "case" with some evidence that clearly shows you weren't going to Drive. Doing a couple or all of the points below will likely ensure that the police won't arrest you or even if you met a copper in a bad mood who did, you could likely show a magistrate that you had no intention of driving.

  • Make sure the landlord knows your intention to sleep in the car park.
  • Ensure the motorhome is parked in the right place and not causing any obstructions before you have a drink.
  • Put your silver-screens in the windscreen (internally will do)
  • If you use a third party steering lock, pop it on.
  • If you have a slide-out, put it out
  • Put jacks or steadies down,
  • Never have the keys in or anywhere near the ignition
  • If you have a safe, put the keys in it
  • Never sit in the driving seat unless it is spun around

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scotjimland said:
How about this scenario...

you are sound asleep and a 6.30am you are awakened by an almighty bang.. the brewery beer delivery lorry backs into to your van and does substantial damage.. technically you are in charge of the van and still drunk....

The driver doesn't admit responsibility, the landlord denies giving you permission to sleep overnight in his car park .. he won't admit he did as he could be prosecuted by the council for allowing his car park to be used as a camping site .. which is against the 1960 Caravan Sites act ..


Your insurer may not cover you if you have been drinking.. and technically in charge ..

what happens next ?
Click to expand...
You wake up and realise it was just a scenario.......


“The law states that someone cannot be convicted of an “in charge” offence if they can prove there was no intention and / or likelihood of the vehicle being driven whilst the driver was over the prescribed limit.

Unlike many other offences, with the offence of being drunk in charge, the accused must prove that they did not have any intention to drive the vehicle. The prosecution is not required to prove that the accused was likely to drive whilst unfit or over the limit.

A defence is available if it can be shown that there was no likelihood of driving whilst over the prescribed limit and doing this should be established by expert scientific evidence or compelling circumstantial evidence. These defences are known as “statutory defences”.
 
Paul J said:
a hypothetical question....

you're in a pub car park, you've had a meal there, you're way pissed to drive away, and you've the landlords permission to stay over. your blinds are down, you made no noise, but you're in an area that the public have access to. I think I'm aware that you could be in some trouble if caught, do you :

1, keep quiet, ignore the knocks, even if announced "this is the police"

2, open the door an offer them a beer

3, open the door in your birthday suit, and claim, "this is my house, I can do as I please"

4, put a couple of shells in the twelve bore

5, get prepared to move, at least some distance if it's an attempted break-in

6, do something in the toilet that stinks, and then let anyone in regardless




edit : don't read the title too literally, I meant that you ate in the pub, not the car park. I didn't listen in Inglish lessons ;)
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Not again..this goes with gassing and A Frames and Breakdown Insurance..it will go on and on.Busby .:love::notworthy::)
 
I think there are far bigger things to worry about in life..Will I wake up in the morning.Will my savings last as long as my motorhome or as long as me..Where is my next bottle of wine coming from..Enjoy life and don't worry..Busby.


.
 
I’m paranoid as well
(Everyone is saying that behind my back, I just know it)

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Nicepix said:
I once locked someone up for OPL after finding him asleep in his car. :eek:

Mind you, that was 1989. Oh! And he still had the remnants of the fence that he had destroyed festooned around his car. That had something to do with it. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Nicepix said:
I once locked someone up for OPL after finding him asleep in his car. :eek:

Mind you, that was 1989. Oh! And he still had the remnants of the fence that he had destroyed festooned around his car. That had something to do with it. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Nicepix said:
I once locked someone up for OPL after finding him asleep in his car. :eek:

Mind you, that was 1989. Oh! And he still had the remnants of the fence that he had destroyed festooned around his car. That had something to do with it. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
OPL?
 
I will throw the cat amongs the pigeons.....this could also be said staying on an aires or campsite. Its any road or public place by payment or otherwise. But you can get too paranoid :D
 
Gazzag said:
I will throw the cat amongs the pigeons.....this could also be said staying on an aires or campsite. Its any road or public place by payment or otherwise. But you can get too paranoid :D
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If you drink drive on a campsite and have a collision, or someone makes a complaint and the Police are called, you can be breathalysed and arrested, but you will not be knocked up during the night for an 'in charge' arrest.
 
Kingham said:
If you drink drive on a campsite and have a collision, or someone makes a complaint and the Police are called, you can be breathalysed and arrested, but you will not be knocked up during the night for an 'in charge' arrest.
Click to expand...

The chance of been knocked up wild camping may be possible but very slim, but it is the same offence this thread talks about as Drunk in Charge......... It is a very grey area and the law is not very clear. There are more stated cases in drink drive legislation than any other due to the very grey areas. I wild camp loads and never once had or heard of an issue. It is worth noting though and then push it the very bottom of your mind as far other things more important

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