Is VAT always payable on a imported used motorhome?

[beachwomble]

Having finally identified the campervan of my dreams, I am in the process of finding a dealer. There is just one snag; the campervan is not sold in the UK! The van will be bought new as I can spec it up to my needs and used ones are like hens teeth anyway.
My main query is: if I keep it abroad for some time (one year for example) and then import it to the UK, would I need to pay
A: no VAT or import duty?
B: VAT or import duty based on its current value at time of import? or
C: VAT or import duty based on its value when bought new?
If bought in Switzerland (VAT at 7.7%!), my brother who lives in the country would be the legal owner and me listed as second driver, if an insurance company will allow that.
The other option would be to buy it in France. My father who is resident there would be the legal owner and myself listed as second driver on the insurance. Of course, in both cases the campervan would be bought with my own funds.
I am aware of the material changes needed to the vehicle when importing it, so I just want to focus on the above. I would be grateful for any guidance as I am a total newbie here who may be all too naive with some of the questions raised!

 

[CazPaul]

So if you were to buy a used van from Germany etc 2 years old 10000km, you would NOW pay VAT in the UK even if the original buyer had paid the German VAT when he bought it?

Then if you in another 18 months go to Germany and part ex your van for another.

Now the van you have taken to Germany and part exed, what if Mr Smith from UK then bought that van from the German dealer and imported again, it may now be 4 years old and would Mr Smith then pay UK VAT as well?

You could finish up with a van having the German VAT paid and 5 lots of UK VAT depending on who buys it etc?

 

[Grumpyfrog]

Be careful Beachwomble, HMRC are now watching you!

 

[Nanniemate]

So if you were to buy a used van from Germany etc 2 years old 10000km, you would NOW pay VAT in the UK even if the original buyer had paid the German VAT when he bought it?

Then if you in another 18 months go to Germany and part ex your van for another.

Now the van you have taken to Germany and part exed, what if Mr Smith from UK then bought that van from the German dealer and imported again, it may now be 4 years old and would Mr Smith then pay UK VAT as well?

You could finish up with a van having the German VAT paid and 5 lots of UK VAT depending on who buys it etc?

BREXIT , we (the people) voted for it we got it. I am sure there will be a few more unconsidered surprises down the road and the full impact of any benefits or drawbacks will not become fully clear until we have moved on from the pandemic

 

[Nanniemate]

Be careful Beachwomble, HMRC are now watching you!

who are they, I don't run in the circles wealthy enough to know them, got a big house with a swimming pool, 15, classic cars, and homes all over the world, but have not been acquainted

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Abgs]

I had a conversation on this subject with a Southampton based Customs agent this week. As from 1st January anyone importing a vehicle new or used from the EU WILL be liable for VAT on the value of the vehicle. If you had resided in the EU purchased the vehicle while you lived there and then moved back to the U.K. bringing it with you you would not be liable for any VAT. It seems that there will be very little to gain by purchasing from EU dealers henceforth. There are no sliding scales for age reduction.
Unfortunately someone negotiating this deal didn’t read the small print!!!!!
Another Brexit bonus!

They would sound about right. If you bring a car in from the USA you pay Import duty (10%) and VAT on the car price plus duty * 20%.

I guess import duty wouldn't be payable if it's an EU sourced and manufactured motorhome due to the world class trade deal we negotiated with the EU ..., but VAT would be payable in the UK.

If you were buying new you should be able to find a German dealer would would supply you a vehicle VAT free for export. Then you'd pay the VAT in the UK when you bring the vehicle in. Buying second hand - you might be able to get a VAT exclusive sale from a dealer but not form a private seller. Some German dealers who advertise on Mobile.de seem to indicate they are well versed in export procedures.

 

[CazPaul]

BREXIT , we (the people) voted for it we got it. I am sure there will be a few more unconsidered surprises down the road and the full impact of any benefits or drawbacks will not become fully clear until we have moved on from the pandemic

There could be legal challenges to that scenario I mentioned but were just speculating at the minute, it will take a while for things to get sorted out.

 

[CazPaul]

They would sound about right. If you bring a car in from the USA you pay Import duty (10%) and VAT on the car price plus duty * 20%.

I guess import duty wouldn't be payable if it's an EU sourced and manufactured motorhome due to the world class trade deal we negotiated with the EU ..., but VAT would be payable in the UK.

If you were buying new you should be able to find a German dealer would would supply you a vehicle VAT free for export. Then you'd pay the VAT in the UK when you bring the vehicle in. Buying second hand - you might be able to get a VAT exclusive sale from a dealer but not form a private seller. Some German dealers who advertise on Mobile.de seem to indicate they are well versed in export procedures.

Yes good point even on the second hand sales the German dealers give 2 prices with and without VAT (Mehrwertsteuer)

 

[EMS]

Another aspect is that the vehicle will be then registered for the DVLA system.
A friend imported his father's old Volvo from France a few years ago and he found that the reference for pollution/etc/MOT was dated not from first use or manufacture but from the date of registration in UK an odd situation.
This may have changed, perhaps someone on this site who has an imported Japanese converted camper may be able to update us?

 

[TonyEmm]

Having finally identified the campervan of my dreams, I am in the process of finding a dealer. There is just one snag; the campervan is not sold in the UK! The van will be bought new as I can spec it up to my needs and used ones are like hens teeth anyway.
My main query is: if I keep it abroad for some time (one year for example) and then import it to the UK, would I need to pay
A: no VAT or import duty?
B: VAT or import duty based on its current value at time of import? or
C: VAT or import duty based on its value when bought new?
If bought in Switzerland (VAT at 7.7%!), my brother who lives in the country would be the legal owner and me listed as second driver, if an insurance company will allow that.
The other option would be to buy it in France. My father who is resident there would be the legal owner and myself listed as second driver on the insurance. Of course, in both cases the campervan would be bought with my own funds.
I am aware of the material changes needed to the vehicle when importing it, so I just want to focus on the above. I would be grateful for any guidance as I am a total newbie here who may be all too naive with some of the questions raised!

Check https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-imports-acquisitions-and-purchases-from-abroad

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ceejayt]

Check https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-imports-acquisitions-and-purchases-from-abroad

Make sure the information is up to date. Many pages state they are now out of date.

if you live in the UK importing a vehicle new or used will attract taxes. The exporter of a new vehicle will be able to avoid some taxes in their own country to pass on to the importer.

it’s a minefield at the moment

 

[CazPaul]

Make sure the information is up to date. Many pages state they are now out of date.

if you live in the UK importing a vehicle new or used will attract taxes. The exporter of a new vehicle will be able to avoid some taxes in their own country to pass on to the importer.

it’s a minefield at the moment

Yes but the dealers offer used motorhomes with and without vat so if the rules have changed here then I presume you could buy the van at the without tax price from the German dealer?

 

[Ditcha]

Yes but the dealers offer used motorhomes with and without vat so if the rules have changed here then I presume you could buy the van at the without tax price from the German dealer?

I would have thought that the dealer in Germany would have to pay German vat and the importer UK vat, Germany aren't going to waiver their vat for the UK a non EU country surely, similar to buying from the US they don't offer US vat free deals because it coming to the UK.

 

[CazPaul]

I would have thought that the dealer in Germany would have to pay German vat and the importer UK vat, Germany aren't going to waiver their vat for the UK a non EU country surely, similar to buying from the US they don't offer US vat free deals because it coming to the UK.

We’ll have to see what the future holds, let’s put it this way, it will deter a lot of used buyers if you have to pay German vat and then uk vat with no refunds from German.
Although if the exchange rate goes to the 1.48 we got in early 2007 that will offset it.

 

[Ditcha]

We’ll have to see what the future holds, let’s put it this way, it will deter a lot of used buyers if you have to pay German vat and then uk vat with no refunds from German.
Although if the exchange rate goes to the 1.48 we got in early 2007 that will offset it.

Early days I think the dust needs to settle, can't even get a delivery out of Germany, but that's how I see it at the minute.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[CazPaul]

Early days I think the dust needs to settle, can't even get a delivery out of Germany, but that's how I see it at the minute.

At the minute some German dealers when buying a new Motorhome agree vat free and you pay in this country so surely some would do the same for used?

 

[Ditcha]

At the minute some German dealers when buying a new Motorhome agree vat free and you pay in this country so surely some would do the same for used?

I think that will be a thing of the past the EU only need vat to be paid in one other EU country for it to be satisfied. We are not a member of that club anymore it's like someone buying a van from Germany then shipping to the US they will have to pay vat in Germany and in the US same for us now.

 

[Minxy]

We’ll have to see what the future holds, let’s put it this way, it will deter a lot of used buyers if you have to pay German vat and then uk vat with no refunds from German.
Although if the exchange rate goes to the 1.48 we got in early 2007 that will offset it.

Previously I believe you could get the German supplier to do ex-VAT sales if they were willing (Lenny HB) although I believe others had to pay it up front and claim it back from them once they showed they had paid UK VAT. As the deal for 'trade' imports of vehicles to the UK can be done without paying VAT in the originating country this may also apply to personal imports of vehicles too and possibly why some adverts for vehicles now show an ex-VAT and VAT inclusive figure.

 

[Lenny HB]

I've bought 3 new vans in Belgium always supplied VAT free.

 

[Ditcha]

I've bought 3 new vans in Belgium always supplied VAT free.

All before we left the EU

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Minxy]

I've bought 3 new vans in Belgium always supplied VAT free.

Lenny, I know you've used the same dealer, any chance you could ask them the question as to whether they would still supply vehicles VAT free?

 

[Lenny HB]

Lenny, I know you've used the same dealer, any chance you could ask them the question as to whether they would still supply vehicles VAT free?

Will do.

 

[TonyEmm]

We’ll have to see what the future holds, let’s put it this way, it will deter a lot of used buyers if you have to pay German vat and then uk vat with no refunds from German.
Although if the exchange rate goes to the 1.48 we got in early 2007 that will offset it.

The exchange rate was in the mid 1.40’s in 2015.... I was on the verge of buying a property in Portugal, until my U.K. buyer pulled out on the day of exchanging contracts....

 

[Ditcha]

Previously I believe you could get the German supplier to do ex-VAT sales if they were willing (Lenny HB)

As the deal for 'trade' imports of vehicles to the UK can be done without paying VAT

'Trade' don't pay vat until they make a sale it's the end user who pay the vat, in business you collect vat for the government on your sales and claim vat back on your purchases so in one hand out the other. That's if your vat registered of course.

 

[stevel2]

It wouldn't be deception, it doesn't matter who pays for it, the MH would be registered in another family member's name as the owner with BW as a driver on the insurance.

I don’t think this is right. The Registered owner wouldn’t be the main driver - the OP would. And I think the insurance field call this fronting.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[TonyEmm]

It wouldn't be deception, it doesn't matter who pays for it, the MH would be registered in another family member's name as the owner with BW as a driver on the insurance.

But if BW is the main (or only) driver rather than an occasional driver, that could be considered ‘fronting’....

 

[beachwomble]

Thanks for all the feedback. Just to be clear, as I am still a few months away from this possible purchase, I am trying to see through the fog by fact finding of what I can and can't do. I don't want to land myself in a minefield by doing anything illegal because "I didn't know". I'm waiting for the reply from HM Customs & Excise to my query about importing the camper from Switzerland. By reading some of your wise comments the most likely scenario will be to find a German dealer with a dedicated export dept as I don't see myself going through the rigmarole of doing all the import stuff myself.

 

[CazPaul]

Thanks for all the feedback. Just to be clear, as I am still a few months away from this possible purchase, I am trying to see through the fog by fact finding of what I can and can't do. I don't want to land myself in a minefield by doing anything illegal because "I didn't know". I'm waiting for the reply from HM Customs & Excise to my query about importing the camper from Switzerland. By reading some of your wise comments the most likely scenario will be to find a German dealer with a dedicated export dept as I don't see myself going through the rigmarole of doing all the import stuff myself.

What van is it you are looking at?

 

[beachwomble]

What van is it you are looking at?

Karmann Mobil Dexter

 

[CazPaul]

Karmann Mobil Dexter

Nice vans, I like the Ford one of those, just under 6 metres, 170 Bhp, 4 wheel drive, looks lovely, separate shower as you block the toilet off with a screen.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Minxy]

I don’t think this is right. The Registered owner wouldn’t be the main driver - the OP would. And I think the insurance field call this fronting.

But if BW is the main (or only) driver rather than an occasional driver, that could be considered ‘fronting’....

Please read all my earlier posts as this has been asked and answered already.