Is the auto changeover relay duff?

[JockandRita]

Here is an interesting find, well it is for me anyway. I turned the CBE charging unit off, reset the trips, and reconnected the EHU. On this occasion, only the MH tripped (RCB & MCBs), but not the source of the EHU. ?

Does that mean anything to anyone more learned than moi? ?

Cheers,

Jock. ?

 

[Ditcha]

Hi Jock, I used this relay setup that is in the resources section supplied by Techno worth a read might have some info you need

Auto Changeover Relay For Inverter

Auto Changeover Relay For Inverter

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[JockandRita]

Hi Jock, I used this relay setup that is in the resources section supplied by Techno worth a read might have some info you need

Auto Changeover Relay For Inverter

Auto Changeover Relay For Inverter

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Thanks Dave. ? I really would like to get the root cause of the problem, and get this already established set up sorted.

From we have found out this morning, it may not be the relay at all, but something else.

Cheers,

Jock. ?

 

[funflair]

Hi Jock

The top two photos are the 12v side so nothing of interest in there, the bottom one is the 240v and the plugs at the bottom of the box are the circuits to the van, I think the manual should tell you which circuit is which and you could unplug these one at a time, I am pretty sure that the two black cables are the original van circuits to sockets as it is split bedroom/bathroom and lounge/kitchen, then I would guess that the one closest to you is the boiler feed. That only leaves one cable unaccounted for and it looks like it goes off into the grey box bottom right is that something to do with the battery charger feed as this is not live from the inverter only EHU, don't know how it does it though.

Martin

 

[JockandRita]

I've just carried out another test.
This time, I only reset the RCB, leaving the MCBs off. I turned the CBE charger back on, then connected to EHU. All is well.........but as soon as I try to reset the MCBs, everything trips, including the house circuit for the EHU.
During today's tests and messing about, the inverter has been completely isolated.

So, with the inverter isolated, and the MCBs off, power is coming in to the MH and charging the batteries. ? The fridge/freezer won't operate on mains though, only gas and 12v.

It's getting more interesting. ?

You posted while I was typing Martin. Yes, I appreciate the top two photos were the 12v side of things, but doesn't that box contain a right bunch of barstewards? ???

Cheers,

Jock. ?

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[andy63]

Just looking in again jock?
Your latest post seems to confirm you have an earth fault on the mains system on the van.. It has to be that if its tripping the residual current device..
How many MCB do you have in the consumer unit.. I thought one would have to be switched on for the charger to work..but not sure if thats what you are saying..
And then see which other one causes the trip to operate..Then its a case if trying to find the leak...if you had or knew someone with a megga/insulation tester it would help but its usually a case of disconnecting the circuit and checking till the fault disappears and the megga shows no breakdown.. Wires nipped together somewhere or a fault on an appliance on the circuit..like the fridge..
Good luck?
Andy.

 

[hilldweller]

....but as soon as I try to reset the MCBs, everything trips, including the house circuit for the EHU.


Jock. ?

You keep saying MCBs. You need to switch one at a time 'till it goes bang.

Charging is good, one expense less. But how can the charger work if the MCBs have tripped ?

Be a bit more specific on these MCBs.

 

[JockandRita]

You keep saying MCBs. You need to switch one at a time 'till it goes bang.

That's because they operate as a pair Brian. ?

Right, with the help of Martin, I have been into the RCB/MCB box, and disconnected one multi plug at a time, starting with the bottom right (see photo), then I reconnected the EHU. Everything tripped, including the house. EHU disconnected, multi plug reconnected. Second one along from the right (black cable) disconnected, EHU reconnected, and "VOILA", nothing at all tripped, and I now have power to most sockets (but not all), and to the fridge/freezer. So, I now need to find out what that second multi plug is powering.
Another phone call with Martin methinks. ?

Back soon. ?

 

[funflair]

Hi Jock

Double check that that plug on the offending black sheathed cable looks OK as to me the blue cable looks a darker blue and if it's all Niesmann/Hymer wiring I would expect it to be off the same roll.

Talk later

Martin

 

[JockandRita]

Fed and watered now. ?

Without any help from the manual I am unable to ascertain what that multi plug actually feeds, but as well as a socket at the habitation table, and a socket in the garage, Martin and I both think that it may well power the Alde heating system. Also, it is the old style brown, blue, green/yellow cable, which I haven't seen for a long time, so original factory installation.
We last used the heating on mains in France in mid January for two nights, whereupon it worked fine, and have only used it on gas since.

Hi Jock

Double check that that plug on the offending black sheathed cable looks OK as to me the blue cable looks a darker blue and if it's all Niesmann/Hymer wiring I would expect it to be off the same roll.

Talk later

Martin

Yep, on my way to check it out now Martin..............then I'm wrapping it up for today, as it's close to beer o'clock. ?

Cheers,

Jock. ?

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[funflair]

Fed and watered now. ?

Without any help from the manual I am unable to ascertain what that multi plug actually feeds, but as well as a socket at the habitation table, and a socket in the garage, Martin and I both think that it may well power the Alde heating system. Also, it is the old style brown, blue, green/yellow cable, which I haven't seen for a long time, so original factory installation.
We last used the heating on mains in France in mid January for two nights, whereupon it worked fine, and have only used it on gas since.


Yep, on my way to check it out now Martin..............then I'm wrapping it up for today, as it's close to beer o'clock. ?

Cheers,

Jock. ?

Will talk tomorrow Jock as we need to get to why the socket in the garage doesn't work

Martin

 

[JockandRita]

Will talk tomorrow Jock as we need to get to why the socket in the garage doesn't work

Martin

No probs Martin, and thanks for your time on the blower today. Much appreciated. ?

It's just not worked since I pulled that multi plug today, as it was working yesterday when I was using it. ?

Cheers,

Jock. ?

 

[hilldweller]

That's because they operate as a pair Brian. ?

Back soon. ?

Sorry Jock, I saw and RCS and two MCBs but in reality it's a single two pole MCB.

At least you are getting close now.

 

[funflair]

No probs Martin, and thanks for your time on the blower today. Much appreciated. ?

It's just not worked since I pulled that multi plug today, as it was working yesterday when I was using it. ?

Cheers,

Jock. ?

Yer but, it's a spur off one of the ones that works I am 99.99% sure that what is confusing me.

Martin

 

[JockandRita]

How many MCB do you have in the consumer unit.. I thought one would have to be switched on for the charger to work..but not sure if thats what you are saying..
And then see which other one causes the trip to operate..

andy63. In the photo above Andy, there is 1 x RCB, 2 x MCBs, and 1 x test button. Both MCBs operate as one, and are linked by a small metal pin.

But how can the charger work if the MCBs have tripped ?

Be a bit more specific on these MCBs.

hilldweller. I assume that it is powered direct and independent of other electrics Brian, I don't really know.
Again, please see the photo above re the MCBs

Yer but, it's a spur off one of the ones that works I am 99.99% sure that what is confusing me.

Martin

Rita said, "I'll bet Martin is awake most of the night sorting that one out".

Cheers,

Jock.

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[andy63]

@andy63. In the photo above Andy, there is 1 x RCB, 2 x MCBs, and 1 x test button. Both MCBs operate as one, and are linked by a small metal pin.

Cheers Jock.. I replied without looking back through the thread.. Missed those photos.. But doubt I'd have noticed the mcb's operate as one ..
Progress anyway by the sounds of it..
Fingers crossed for you...
Andy.

 

[JockandRita]

Sorry Jock, I saw and RCS and two MCBs but in reality it's a single two pole MCB.

At least you are getting close now.

Thanks Brian. You'll know better than me. I just saw 2 x switches connected together by a metal pin...........which I had to look really hard at to find.

Cheers Jock.. I replied without looking back through the thread.. Missed those photos.. But doubt I'd have noticed the mcb's operate as one ..
Progress anyway by the sounds of it..
Fingers crossed for you...
Andy.

Thanks Andy. It's frustrating more than annoying for me, but I am really grateful to everyone for their help and contributions.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[JockandRita]

Update....................

Whilst the initial problem causing damage to the inverter back in late December, is still not known for sure, the cause of the RCB/MCB tripping out has been identified, and the 204v system is working normal again, as it should.

This surge protector which I was using whilst in Spain, to protect my laptop, appears to be faulty.

Once removed, the problem of tripping out was also removed.

I then took it to the house garage, and with all three switches in the off mode, I plugged it into a mains socket, switched the socket on, which then caused a bang and a flash, and the RCB for that circuit to blow completely, losing all power to the garage, including the fridge where Rita's injections are kept at temperature. It could not be reset at all.
Fortunately, a local electrician I know was able to come out straight away, (complete with mask and nitril gloves) and replace the trip for us. £60 well spent.

Once the remote extension lead arrives, I will test out the new inverter again, whilst remaining unplugged from the EHU.


Question for the electrical experts please.........................Would it be prudent to change the existing auto changeover relay (14 x years old now) for the new one I purchased, or should I just hang on to it as a spare?

Thanks,

Jock.

 

[Lenny HB]

Question for the electrical experts please.........................Would it be prudent to change the existing auto changeover relay (14 x years old now) for the new one I purchased, or should I just hang on to it as a spare?

Normally relays are fairly robust and being in a Motorhome it won't have been in continuous use. But if the new one will plug straight in might as well fit it.

 

[CazPaul]

We had some electrical problems Jock on our Concorde after a power cut initially, thought it was RCB, fridge and sockets wouldn't work.
I tried all sorts to the best of my knowledge which isn't much and eventually took it to an electrician, a couple of hours and partial rewire later, perfect.

Best £70 we ever spent.

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[JockandRita]

Normally relays are fairly robust and being in a Motorhome it won't have been in continuous use. But if the new one will plug straight in might as well fit it.

Thanks Lenny.

It's a bitterly cold wind out there, so on a warmer day perhaps.

I tried all sorts to the best of my knowledge which isn't much and eventually took it to an electrician, a couple of hours and partial rewire later, perfect.

Getting an electrician round to look over the mains electrics did cross my mind when I was floundering a bit Paul, but all sorted, with the help of other of courses.

Cheers,

Jock.