Is LPG being phased out?

[LeahRose]

Hi all

Thanks for the heads up about the very disappointing news that Calor is discontinuing the 3.9kg & 4.5kg bottles, having finally managed to get hold of 2 for my Ducato Expedition 66.

So now I need to find an alternative asap. The gas locker is too small for a 6kg bottle and as the van is less than a year old I really don’t want to start modifying anything inside.

Having done some more searching on my, go to ‘font of all motorhoming knowledge’ aka Motorhome Funsters forum (you have no idea how much I have learnt from you guys ) I found a thread about underslung LPG tanks and although expensive it looks like it might be the best option for my van. I’ve since emailed and chatted to the guys at Autogas they sound great, thanks again for the recommendation.

I’ve also however read that LPG is due to be phased out at filling stations in 2024. I was wondering if any of you guys know if that means it will be phased out completely or will we still be able to fill tanks? Obviously I don’t want to spend all that money if I’m unable to use it in 2 years.

I’d be really grateful for any advice. Thanks

 

[Kannon Fodda]

So much cheaper to do it yourself, it’s not too difficult….

Do the regulations that a properly qualified person is only legally allowed to work on gas systems not apply to LPG systems, only fixed gas installations?

 

[Just smiffy]

Do the regulations that a properly qualified person is only legally allowed to work on gas systems not apply to LPG systems, only fixed gas installations?

Lots of people have fitted their own systems on here, I don’t think you have to have a qualification to fit lpg…

 

[hja]

Any tank/cylinder fill system on the van is going to mean you dont have to lug gas cylinders around!

 

[cyberyacht]

In the six years since I switched to a refillable, LPG has cost me £150 compared to the equivalent of £600 for calor exchanges, a saving of £450 over that time. The two Safefill bottles( 2nd. bought last year) have cost me £380, so I am already ahead and still own the capital investment of the bottles. My LPG consumption has risen recently as I now spend more time off-grid(cheaper/0 pitch fees), so future savings will be even more significant.

If you are always on EHU "and" in the UK, then it probably doesn't make sense, otherwise it seems a no-brainer.

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[enark]

I was quoted £840 for a 2 x 6kg Gaslow system fitted with auto switch over and external filler point.
From what I can see LPG is about £1.30kg compared to £6 per kg of Calor, so £4.70 cheaper per kg.
So the saving on my annual 48kgs of gas is £225.
It will take the bast part of 4 years to recoup.
I'm undecided.

I was quoted £750 by a main dealer for one 11kg, so elected to DIY and save £450…

 

[TONCAZ]

So much cheaper to do it yourself, it’s not too difficult….

There is a you tube vid on how to install, doddle if you have a 75mm hole saw and a couple of adjustable wrenches......

 

[enark]

Do the regulations that a properly qualified person is only legally allowed to work on gas systems not apply to LPG systems, only fixed gas installations?

It’s my van. I can fit a new engine, brakes, fit an exchangeable can, so what’s the difference….

not covered by BRs or other legislation as far as I know….

 

[enark]

There is a you tube vid on how to install, doddle if you have a 75mm hole saw and a couple of adjustable wrenches......

75mm holesaw available from Screwfix - £4

 

[Verteuil Man]

Do the regulations that a properly qualified person is only legally allowed to work on gas systems not apply to LPG systems, only fixed gas installations?

To be safe I would check with your insurance company . A flammable gas knows no bounds whether it be natural gas or LPG. It all goes bang.

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[Lenny HB]

Do the regulations that a properly qualified person is only legally allowed to work on gas systems not apply to LPG systems, only fixed gas installations?

Doesn't apply to Motorhomes.

 

[Basildog]

Does anyone know the investment needed to install a commercial LPG system Also, what sort of legal licencing / training / certification is needed?

Im asking as the Caravan club and the CCC club do refurbish / develop their campsites and maybe they could be persuaded to include an LPG pump as part of the development, especially as it would be a revenue generator! Most sites seem to already have LPG systems to power/heat the amenities blocks and also sell/swap filled cylinders so LPG would not be a totally new thing on the sites

It would be a complete nightmare for them to deal with
Can you imagine filling gas cylinders and tanks where you have campers nearby?
It’s a complete non starter.

 

[Lenny HB]

From what I can see LPG is about £1.30kg

Your pricing is a bit out, Currently between 80p to £1.00 Lt.
My last fill was 79.9p from Morissons, 40% cheaper than your price.
If you are a low user it's borderline for us it saves us around £190 a year probably more.

 

[Basildog]

My underslung takes 20l max. The gauge is hopelessly inaccurate, can be red at anything from 3/4 full to empty. A 10 litre refill is the norm even though at that amount it's still quite embarrassing to walk up to the pay desk.

The point being that most LPG sites aren't going to be viable just to be run for motorhomers and other leisure users, most of us just don't have the capacity to make it worthwhile for the supplier who needs bulk sales to have any margin. Are we really expecting that campsites or whoever are going to pay to install the extra pump infrastructure, keep it serviced, and then have staff available to open up at random times for someone paying a fiver?

As the UK never really adopted LPG for motive power, current garages will, as their kit ages inevitably take a decision to remove. Supply points will dwindle, simple economics. There will remain some specialist locations, but they will be few and far between.

More Leisure businesses are installing new LPG tanks but the prices are for obvious reasons more expensive.
We have seriously considered having a minimum charge.

That's only 10 Lt we normally put in 30 to 40 lt, normally only fill after one gas bottle is empty which is 28 lt for us.

We get plenty in for 2 litres

 

[Basildog]

There is a you tube vid on how to install, doddle if you have a 75mm hole saw and a couple of adjustable wrenches......

Many of our customers shouldn’t be allowed out alone let alone operate a hole saw
Unfortunately we see all too often poor installations by both diy and professional installers.
Here’s one that looks like a 3 year old threw spaghetti in the locker , Oh no look they are the gas hoses

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[headlight]

Your pricing is a bit out, Currently between 80p to £1.00 Lt.
My last fill was 79.9p from Morissons, 40% cheaper than your price.
If you are a low user it's borderline for us it saves us around £190 a year probably more.

I was saying 1kg of LPG is about £1.30 not 1 litre as AFAIK 1 litre of LPG is about 0.7kgs and my Calor bottles are sold in kgs and work out at £6 per kg.
I might be wrong ?

 

[Nanniemate]

Many of our customers shouldn’t be allowed out alone let alone operate a hole saw
Unfortunately we see all too often poor installations by both diy and professional installers.
Here’s one that looks like a 3 year old threw spaghetti in the locker , Oh no look they are the gas hoses

View attachment 711924

Itsnot mine

 

[Lenny HB]

I was saying 1kg of LPG is about £1.30 not 1 litre as AFAIK 1 litre of LPG is about 0.7kgs and my Calor bottles are sold in kgs and work out at £6 per kg.
I might be wrong ?

Didn't notice the kg as LPG is always sold in Lt, 1 kg of Propane is 1.96 Lt.

 

[Verteuil Man]

Didn't notice the kg as LPG is always sold in Lt, 1 kg of Propane is 1.96 Lt.

For calculation purposes. One kg of lpg is equivalent to 2 litres.

 

[Billy192]

fit an underslung tank. then you have a spare storage space. connect the same pipe from the gas cab to the pig tail . I have never had issues getting LPG around the UK and there are loads of garages in Europe.

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[Minxy]

Do the regulations that a properly qualified person is only legally allowed to work on gas systems not apply to LPG systems, only fixed gas installations?

It doesn't apply to MHs etc unless they are used for commercial purposes, eg hired out, and then they have to be tested yearly too I believe.

 

[Minxy]

fit an underslung tank. then you have a spare storage space. connect the same pipe from the gas cab to the pig tail . I have never had issues getting LPG around the UK and there are loads of garages in Europe.

What do you mean by gas cab?

 

[TONCAZ]

What do you mean by gas cab?

Think it's the locker where your gas bottles are..

 

[MichaelT]

Can you imagine the rules the Caravan and Motorhome club would put in place though, you'd probably only be allowed to fill up between 09:23 and 09:46 on every third Wednesday, while wearing a jacket and tie, with your habitation door facing west.

And then only if you park between the white pegs correctly

 

[Basildog]

It doesn't apply to MHs etc unless they are used for commercial purposes, eg hired out, and then they have to be tested yearly too I believe.

Massive amount of misinformation regarding this topic to be honest, scarily it seems the most likely people to attempt diy gas work are normally those with limited knowledge / ability, it seems a definite case of ignorance is bliss
Yes it’s true that privately owned leisure vehicles/ caravans are specifically excluded from GSIUR, what people don’t seem to comprehend is that you would still need to be competent, ( pretty much the only way to provide evidence of competence is training specific to that activity)
The days of saying you have been doing something for 20 years so are deemed competent are long gone .
There is a case where a guy who installed a generator in a boat that killed his partner and her daughter was successfully prosecuted for manslaughter through negligence.
So anyone doing their own gas work even on their own leisure vehicle still has to complete any work to recognised standards using the correct components.

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[Verteuil Man]

Massive amount of misinformation regarding this topic to be honest, scarily it seems the most likely people to attempt diy gas work are normally those with limited knowledge / ability, it seems a definite case of ignorance is bliss
Yes it’s true that privately owned leisure vehicles/ caravans are specifically excluded from GSIUR, what people don’t seem to comprehend is that you would still need to be competent, ( pretty much the only way to provide evidence of competence is training specific to that activity)
The days of saying you have been doing something for 20 years so are deemed competent are long gone .
There is a case where a guy who installed a generator in a boat that killed his partner and her daughter was successfully prosecuted for manslaughter through negligence.
So anyone doing their own gas work even on their own leisure vehicle still has to complete any work to recognised standards using the correct components.

Well said.

 

[Just smiffy]

Massive amount of misinformation regarding this topic to be honest, scarily it seems the most likely people to attempt diy gas work are normally those with limited knowledge / ability, it seems a definite case of ignorance is bliss
Yes it’s true that privately owned leisure vehicles/ caravans are specifically excluded from GSIUR, what people don’t seem to comprehend is that you would still need to be competent, ( pretty much the only way to provide evidence of competence is training specific to that activity)
The days of saying you have been doing something for 20 years so are deemed competent are long gone .
There is a case where a guy who installed a generator in a boat that killed his partner and her daughter was successfully prosecuted for manslaughter through negligence.
So anyone doing their own gas work even on their own leisure vehicle still has to complete any work to recognised standards using the correct components.

You are right of course but there are also some dealers/professionals out there who should be shot for the work they’ve done on some vans….

 

[Basildog]

You are right of course but there are also some dealers/professionals out there who should be shot for the work they’ve done on some vans….

I totally agree
Unfortunately many of them don’t have any experience or qualifications either.
We have sent a few customers back to dealers

 

[carolyn]

I think it’s terrifying that anyone can just have a go at installing their own gas system. I know the people on here would only do it if they thought they could or would ask the many knowledgeable people on here. We could be parked up next to some muppet who just thought they’d have a go to save a few quid after watching a few YouTube videos. Not everyone has commonsense.

I think I’m a bit paranoid at the moment as we’re having building work done and our builder is also the local volunteer Fire Chief so has been called out to DIY disasters and cowboy builder disasters .

 

[Border-Reiver]

Hi all

Thanks for the heads up about the very disappointing news that Calor is discontinuing the 3.9kg & 4.5kg bottles, having finally managed to get hold of 2 for my Ducato Expedition 66.

So now I need to find an alternative asap. The gas locker is too small for a 6kg bottle and as the van is less than a year old I really don’t want to start modifying anything inside.

Having done some more searching on my, go to ‘font of all motorhoming knowledge’ aka Motorhome Funsters forum (you have no idea how much I have learnt from you guys ) I found a thread about underslung LPG tanks and although expensive it looks like it might be the best option for my van. I’ve since emailed and chatted to the guys at Autogas they sound great, thanks again for the recommendation.

I’ve also however read that LPG is due to be phased out at filling stations in 2024. I was wondering if any of you guys know if that means it will be phased out completely or will we still be able to fill tanks? Obviously I don’t want to spend all that money if I’m unable to use it in 2 years.

I’d be really grateful for any advice. Thanks

Hi,
We also have an Expedition 66, the locker is ridiculously small but I got a jigsaw and cut 20mm of top and bottom, repealed the edge moved the upstand on the base and you can get 2x 3.9kg propanes from Flowgas in there no problem.

Watch out though as the 3.9kgs actually come in 3 sizes, my local dealer sets aside the small ones for me.

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[MichaelT]

I think it’s terrifying that anyone can just have a go at installing their own gas system. I know the people on here would only do it if they thought they could or would ask the many knowledgeable people on here. We could be parked up next to some muppet who just thought they’d have a go to save a few quid after watching a few YouTube videos. Not everyone has commonsense.

I think I’m a bit paranoid at the moment as we’re having building work done and our builder is also the local volunteer Fire Chief so has been called out to DIY disasters and cowboy builder disasters .

What's the difference between a refillable gas bottle like gaslow compared to a normal calor bottle. Both connect to a bulkhead regulator and both should be tested for leaks. I would say a refillable system is safer as once fitted and tested you are not continually undoing pipes to change bottles, an underslung tank maybe different .