Is a tracker worthwhile.

[stewartwebr]

I only have an immobiliser and tracker fitted because I could not get insurance without one. If I had the option I wouldn‘t bother to be honest and I certainly would never get a dealer to fit one, they are overpriced and under rated most of the time. If you have one fitted go for the Thatcham S5 which is the highest standard, higher than S6 and S7 and not a huge price difference but opens a lot more options at insurance renewal time. I have a Meta Track S5+ Deadlock, it switches off and on and does what it’s designed to do, other than that I have all the paperwork to show I meet the requirements in the event of a claim and that’s what matters.

 

[Guigsy]

Your wrong Once a system is Thatcham approved it stays Thatcham approved for that group and year IE a Van Bitz Shadow Non Starter, fitted in 2013 on any motorhome first registered up to 2013 would still be Thatcham approved ergo Insurance approved.

What you couldn’t do would to to remove a 2013 tracking system and have it re-installed on a 2023 motorhome, you’d have to have the 2023 version to be insurance approved.

There have been several examples of trackers being no longer supported and customers being told that have to fit a new one at their expense.

When the 2G network is decommissioned, lots of trackers will stop working.

There have been several examples of insurance companies no longer considering old security kit up to scratch.

Several companies have gone under, rebranded or merged and the old service just disappears.

Lifetime might not be that long.

 

[bigtwin]

Personally I wouldn't be bothered by a tracker as if someone gets past all the above and takes it I don't think I'd want it back. I'd just take the insurance money.

I don’t think that anyone nicking a MH does it for joy riding; consequently it isn’t likely to suffer much damage and hence is unlikely to be written off. If it’s not written off they won’t be offering you money for it.

Ian

 

[eddie]

There have been several examples of trackers being no longer supported and customers being told that have to fit a new one at their expense.

That‘s normally when a vehicle changes hands

When the 2G network is decommissioned, lots of trackers will stop working.

If and when it happens

There have been several examples of insurance companies no longer considering old security kit up to scratch.

So long as it’s Thatcham approved it will be accepted, after all the Association of British Insurers (ABI) own M.I.R.R.C (Thatcham)

Several companies have gone under, rebranded or merged and the old service just disappears.

Lifetime might not be that long.

That is a different argument to be fair another reason to have decent equipment fitted by a known reputable company

Allowing the dealer to get ‘Ted the Tracker’ to pop in a plug in (I’m not kidding) what he is flogging cheapest this week, may not be helpful when you have an issues in a few years time. reputation and back up should be the main criteria when choosing a system

 

[Guigsy]

So long as it’s Thatcham approved it will be accepted, after all the Association of British Insurers (ABI) own M.I.R.R.C (Thatcham)

That is a different argument to be fair another reason to have decent equipment fitted by a known reputable company

Allowing the dealer to get ‘Ted the Tracker’ to pop in a plug in (I’m not kidding) what he is flogging cheapest this week, may not be helpful when you have an issues in a few years time. reputation and back up should be the main criteria when choosing a system

Thatcham frequently de-rate products or don't recertify products, so insurance companies no longer accept them. What was considered secure last year, may no longer be.

I do agree about who supports it though. If it's a big brand like Meta Trak, the lifetime is much less likely to be a premature death.

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[eddie]

Personally I wouldn't be bothered by a tracker as if someone gets past all the above and takes it I don't think I'd want it back. I'd just take the insurance money.

LOL Nothing really changes this from 2012

All this tosh about " you wouldn't want it back" is rubbish

You stand there after a day on the beach, in your flip flops, two sleepy, sandy children and a sun burned wife wearing on a "T" shirt and her bikini bottoms looking at a space in the car park where your motorhome should be

You have a carrier bag with two apples, half a bottle of Tizer (warm) and two left over sardine and tomato sandwiches.

Everything of value is in your motorhome, money, credit cards, passports, insurance.

If I offered to return your van, probably intact within the hour for £150 you'd snatch my hand off!

Having said that very few modern vans are stolen due to the improvement in security and immobilisation, and those that are stolen are stolen for re-sale so looked after and are likely to be returned in good order without anything stolen or damaged.

Older chassis are more prone to be stolen and stripped down for spares and parts

Eddie

 

[eddie]

Thatcham frequently de-rate products or don't recertify products, so insurance companies no longer accept them. What was considered secure last year, may no longer be.

No, as some who has paid Thatcham for testing and evaluation for my alarms and trackers, what happens is a new criteria is proposed, the industry is consulted, samples submitted, testing done and ‘new’ approvals are listed. Bearing in mind I was producing alarms prior to the “lists” being compiled. ( I actually wrote the Code of Practice for alarm fitment for Leisure vehicles for the VSIB (Vehicle Security Installation Board) prior to the Thatcham lists)

Old certification remains in place for age appropriate vehicles under appropriate fitment policy.

So if you have a 2010 Thatcham approved alarm installed on your camper in 2010 it is still Thatcham approved.

If this was not the case the public would all have to have to have a new alarm every two years to keep up with the latest Thatcham listing.

I do agree about who supports it though. If it's a big brand like Meta Trak, the lifetime is much less likely to be a premature death.

And you have (had) someone like me to scream at

 

[Guigsy]

No, as some who has paid Thatcham for testing and evaluation for my alarms and trackers, what happens is a new criteria is proposed, the industry is consulted, samples submitted, testing done and ‘new’ approvals are listed.

Olde certification remains in place for age appropriate vehicles under appropriate fitment policy.

So if you have a 2010 Thatcham approved alarm installed on your camper in 2010 it is still Thatcham approved.

If this was not the case the public would all have to have to have a new alarm every two years to keep up with the latest Thatcham listing.


And you have (had) someone like me to scream at

For locks, Thatcham definitely remove ratings. And they don't keep certificates on their site for legacy products either.

Even if a device had a Thatcham approval at some point, would an insurance company consider it valid if it no longer meets the current requirements?

Or do insurance companies just insist on a new S5gen2 standard, which effectively makes your old tracker worthless?

I just don't believe that a lifetime payment is an ironclad way of expecting you'll never need to pay a penny until you change the vehicle.

 

[eddie]

For locks, Thatcham definitely remove ratings. And they don't keep certificates on their site for legacy products either.

Can‘t comment on locks as we never supply physical security products

Even if a device had a Thatcham approval at some point, would an insurance company consider it valid if it no longer meets the current requirements?

So long as it was valid when installed, the evaluation remains, otherwise you could have a Thatcham system installed and it could be current, and obsolete a couple of months later when you re-insure

Or do insurance companies just insist on a new S5gen2 standard, which effectively makes your old tracker worthless?

Again if it’s age appropriate the insurance companies should accept it

I just don't believe that a lifetime payment is an ironclad way of expecting you'll never need to pay a penny until you change the vehicle.

Oh I do agree, the most I’d ever pay is three years if there was a saving.

Human nature dictates that I’ll get better service all the while the ‘provider’ is holding their hand out for money, rather than ‘Tough, you’ve paid anyway’ lol

 

[Otter Spotter]

Can I bring another point to this issue, how a tracker works and whether having one or not will save you money on insurance shouldn’t be the driver to purchasing, it’s the ‘peace of mind’ a tracker gives you, knowing that if the scrotes get off with your van in spite of all the different bars and locks, the van can be tracked and you should be able to get your van back pretty quickly.
Anyone who thinks it will be OK ‘I can claim on my insurance’ for lost van hasn’t had to claim !

If you include the loss of use of the van whilst claim is going through, missed holidays, trying to find a replacement and of course trying to get the insurers to pay you full money for your van and all the upgrades you made to it, the inevitable domestic upset, isn’t it false economy not to get a decent tracker and alarm fitted ?
and I don’t mean one of those cheap one’s plugged into your OBD socket like most of the dealers have fitted.
Finally if it’s transit based, dead locks along full alarm and tracker to ensure opportunistic break ins for valuables are deterred as everyone knows you can access a transit with a McDonald’s wooden stirring stick

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[Otter Spotter]

For locks, Thatcham definitely remove ratings. And they don't keep certificates on their site for legacy products either.

Even if a device had a Thatcham approval at some point, would an insurance company consider it valid if it no longer meets the current requirements?

Or do insurance companies just insist on a new S5gen2 standard, which effectively makes your old tracker worthless?

I just don't believe that a lifetime payment is an ironclad way of expecting you'll never need to pay a penny until you change the vehicle.

Does it actually matter, what’s the average number of years that a van is owned for 10 years max?
As long as the tracker sends a signal out when required and it was accepted initially no insurer is going to refuse a claim because you didn’t update your tracker IMHO

 

[Thornebt]

When it is at parked at home it has a wheel lock, steering lock and brake lock. I don't tend to use any of these when out travelling.

I haven't got a tracker. I rely on low tech visible devices like steering wheel lock, pedal lock etc but I also use them on site. I wouldn't want to risk the insurance company telling me in the event of my van getting stolen that I had declared these devices on my insurance but they were not fitted.

 

[VXman]

LOL Nothing really changes this from 2012

How many motorhomes are recovered within the hour. Do the police actually drop everything to find a stolen motorhome. My experience is the police to absolutely nothing in regards to car crime, or anything less than serious violent crime.

 

[VXman]

LV didn’t require a tracker, alarm or immobiliser when they quote for our Adria despite a declared value of £90k+. Nevertheless I had them all fitted by Vanbitz and I’m very happy with the results.

Have you had your van recovered after being stolen due to the Van Bitz tracker then?

 

[Guigsy]

I've got a van bitz tracker. There have been several occasions where it's been triggered accidentally. Disconnecting the cab battery. Getting on the channel tunnel train, so the van moves without the ignition being on. I've been called by the call centre very quickly, within a minute each time. I don't always think to put it in the appropriate mode in the app.

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[VXman]

When we purchased out motorhome, comfort insurance insisted on a tracker but to be honest i was going to get one anyway although at the time it was tricky to insure it without having the tracker initially as i wanted to get it at the same time as i was having some other work done. Comfort sorted that as well as i had i think something like 2 weeks to get the tracker fitted before the insurance was invalid which worked out ok, still i would not be without some form of tracker though as these things are expensive and i want to know where it is at all times.

I do wonder what comforts rational for requiring/not requiring trackers are. My 2 year old motorhome would cost £100,000 to replace today,. No tracker required and only £300 to insure.

Would be very surprised if any insurer does not want an S5 tracker on a £75k van - however, I wanted one anyway for peace of mind

see above

I always do comparisons and my findings were that for a motorhome over a certain value, maybe 80k or 90k most companies won't insure without a tracker so having the tracker gives more options and saves money if you have a high value van.

I bought a lifetime (ownership of the van) subscription to the tracking service, which worked out a lot cheaper.

See above

I don’t think that anyone nicking a MH does it for joy riding; consequently it isn’t likely to suffer much damage and hence is unlikely to be written off. If it’s not written off they won’t be offering you money for it.

Ian

If you don't have a tracker then it is unlikely to be recovered so insurance will pay out. If it was recovered - tracker or no tracker there would be damage just breaking in, breaking steering lock, ignition, any extra physical devices etc.


My only concern would be (as eddievanbitz said ) the inconvenience if it was stolen while away on a trip.

 

[iandsm]

I only have an immobiliser and tracker fitted because I could not get insurance without one. If I had the option I wouldn‘t bother to be honest and I certainly would never get a dealer to fit one, they are overpriced and under rated most of the time. If you have one fitted go for the Thatcham S5 which is the highest standard, higher than S6 and S7 and not a huge price difference but opens a lot more options at insurance renewal time. I have a Meta Track S5+ Deadlock, it switches off and on and does what it’s designed to do, other than that I have all the paperwork to show I meet the requirements in the event of a claim and that’s what matters.

I have just fitted a TruTrack FMT 100. At under £35 plus subscription it’s a steal and works a treat with lots of information. It’s nice to know I have some comeback and can see what and when things happen at the garage. Not to say if I ever have to go through the pain of RAC recovery again.

 

[Orion]

Have you had your van recovered after being stolen due to the Van Bitz tracker then?

No, thankfully I’ve not had that dubious pleasure. However, I’m satisfied having the combination linked alarm, tracker and immobiliser that in the very unlikely event of the first two being overcome, I would be notified immediately and the Metatrack integration function as expected - accidental self-activation indicates it does.

Have you had a negative experience of that setup?

 

[VXman]

Have you had a negative experience of that setup?

No. It was just a reaction to you comment 'I'm very happy with the results'. It's like someone recommending an insurance company having never made a claim. I'm sure it is a good set up but until there is an attempted break in you will never know.

I have an alarm system that seems to do the job. (Based on the times I've accidentally set it off) However, I've no idea how effective it will be if someone tried to steal it as fortunately I've never been in that situation.

 

[ontheroadagain]

I do wonder what comforts rational for requiring/not requiring trackers are. My 2 year old motorhome would cost £100,000 to replace today,. No tracker required and only £300 to insure.

Comfort would not insure our new motorhome 18 months unless we had a tracker fitted.
(It was insured for £75K)

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[Otter Spotter]

Have you had your van recovered after being stolen due to the Van Bitz tracker then?

My understanding is that no Vanbitz equipped van has ever been stolen

 

[Otter Spotter]

How many motorhomes are recovered within the hour. Do the police actually drop everything to find a stolen motorhome. My experience is the police to absolutely nothing in regards to car crime, or anything less than serious violent crime.

What is your actual experience of the numbers of vans stolen, tracked, recovered or not recovered? Not trying to upset you or wind you up but I think the only probable person on MHFun who could have a handle on the figures was Eddievanbitz and now Ash.
Some Trackers( Vanbitz) have a mapping app so you the owner of the van can see it’s location real-time, so you are tracking it and can call the police and guide them in or you coukd follow it until the police arrive.
As an illustration that Trackers do work, my ex co-worker will testify when his 6 month old BMW was stolen, it was tracked and found to have been parked up on a street 20 miles away, the police spoke to a local who called them when the thieves returned 2 days later thinking it was clear to carry on with the theft. They were caught and 6 other motors were found in a lockup.
I just don’t understand some peoples aversion to trying to protect what is probably their 2nd biggest value item

 

[Guigsy]

I just don’t understand some peoples aversion to trying to protect what is probably their 2nd biggest value item

Just that prevention is better than cure.

Unlike some other security measures, trackers don't prevent theft (or burglary), they just improve the chance of a good outcome when it occurs.

 

[Charlie57]

Priceless if the van is stolen

 

[Otter Spotter]

Just that prevention is better than cure.

Unlike some other security measures, trackers don't prevent theft (or burglary), they just improve the chance of a good outcome when it occurs.

And deter people if you advertise the tracker on the van with stickers etc and not just hide it away

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[Guigsy]

And deter people if you advertise the tracker on the van with stickers etc and not just hide it away

I advise I've got an alarm. I don't advertise I have a tracker. If it does get nicked, I don't want them to search for it.

 

[Charlie57]

If they are pros they probably will anyway

 

[chrisandbev]

i had a tracker in my last van for the first time in 20 years now i have another van and have fitted a tracker and will not have a van without a tracker again best thing i have brought

 

[Folkranger]

I do wonder what comforts rational for requiring/not requiring trackers are. My 2 year old motorhome would cost £100,000 to replace today,. No tracker required and only £300 to insure.

I do wonder what comforts rational for requiring/not requiring trackers are. My 2 year old motorhome would cost £100,000 to replace today,. No tracker required and only £300 to insure.



see above




See above



If you don't have a tracker then it is unlikely to be recovered so insurance will pay out. If it was recovered - tracker or no tracker there would be damage just breaking in, breaking steering lock, ignition, any extra physical devices etc.


My only concern would be (as eddievanbitz said ) the inconvenience if it was stolen while

I do wonder what comforts rational for requiring/not requiring trackers are. My 2 year old motorhome would cost £100,000 to replace today,. No tracker required and only £300 to insure.

Was once with comfort at that price but last time they wanted over 1k so ditched.
You miss my point that on expensive motorhomes most insurers require a tracker. So you are limited to who you can use. If I had to use comfort because of having no tracker it would cost me over a grand and I'd have little other choice

 

[Brains]

We pick up our first motorhome on 1st Sept.New Bailey. It comes with the factory fitted Ford immobiliser. The dealer suggested that we have a tracker and alarm fitted to meet insurance requirements. Caravan guard have quoted £428 insurance and require a tracker and either alarm or mobiliser fitted. We are selling the car which is insured with LV. They have quoted £45 to change over. (Including the £15 admin fee). They don’t require a tracker or alarm to be fitted. The car policy was renewed last month for £240.

I am contemplating whether a tracker and alarm is worthwhile, or whether to go for physical security measures. I have been quoted £700 to have a tracker and alarm plus the cost of airtime.

I suspect a factory fitted Ford immobiliser may be fairly easy to bypass by a professional.
As once they know where the factory normally fit the immobiliser it will be fairly simple to find and remove.

I would very strongly recommend you do what we did.

We drove off the dealers forecourt in northern England
We went 200 miles straight to VanBitz at Taunton in Somerset.
They have a campsite next door so we were at the workshop for our 8am booking

In a single day VanBitz fitted the alarm, the tracker and the engine immobiliser.
They also fitted Gaslow and a solar panel.

We spent the day in Taunton (walking distance) buying linens, duvets, towels, pillows, cutlery, plates, pots and pans etc for the van. (We had to get a taxi back as we had so much stuff)

We then spent a second night at the site next door in the new van, now with proper beds to sleep on and a van that was then ready to use.

If you get a dealer to fit a tracker, alarm, immobiliser, solar or even supply a gas bottle, they will do it, you will get bottom of the range products for top of the range prices.
Bypass the dealer and get the top of the range products fitted yourself.

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