No they don't mine simply charges from USB.
Invertors
- Thread starter Otter Spotter
- Start date
Ours don’t. They need mains or an adapter and use inductive charging, which requires a sine wave or pulse.
Jim
Ringleader
It's for my eyebrow.
cmcardle75
LIFE MEMBER
The induction output is, indeed AC, but it is completely unrelated to the input waveform, as it will be generated by an onboard inverter probably around 20kHz. The mains is probably stepped down to DC and then put through said inverter.
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- Sep 2, 2020
- 88
- 57
- Funster No
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- Mobilvetta Kea P68
- Exp
- Coachbult, caravan 50+yrs
Okay but….What about the much talked about N + E bonding RCD or lack of it when using any inverter!!! ??? I am a newbie and have read many of your opinions before joining and seem to recall SkeggySue never got to the definitive answer on this or am I wrong?
Have recently installed a 1500W MSW inverter hooked to a 110 amp AGM battery +180 W solar panel plus battery master which works fine with power tools under 500 W. Would not wish to use it on electric bike batteries or toothbrushes but will look into USB connectors for the toothbrush which I did not know existed. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
Have recently installed a 1500W MSW inverter hooked to a 110 amp AGM battery +180 W solar panel plus battery master which works fine with power tools under 500 W. Would not wish to use it on electric bike batteries or toothbrushes but will look into USB connectors for the toothbrush which I did not know existed. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
- Sep 2, 2020
- 88
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- Mobilvetta Kea P68
- Exp
- Coachbult, caravan 50+yrs
Nice one peterc10 will check that one out. Would my MSW fry it if tried?
I did say or an adapter by which I meant something like the devices you linked to. Sorry if this was not clear. Take care with oral B, some of the newer ones have a different base and they are not interchangeable.
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If you use an inverter make sure your RCD is a 2 pole device. On some inverters both wires can be live and a single pole one will only disconnect one of them.
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- Sep 2, 2020
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- Coachbult, caravan 50+yrs
Thanks for that Pausim. When I get a two pole RCD as all the ones I have seen are three pin 13 amp plug-ins?
- Sep 2, 2020
- 88
- 57
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- Mobilvetta Kea P68
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- Coachbult, caravan 50+yrs
Sorry that should have read where can I get a 2 pole RCD unit?
Inverters don't need RCDs. They wouldn't work anyway - all RCDs are 2 poll.
They work by what current goes out on live has come back on neutral (balance) or it trips.
Inverters earth's aren't neutral bonded as standard so current will never flow to earth and RCDs won't trip. They are safe to use as standard.
They work by what current goes out on live has come back on neutral (balance) or it trips.
Inverters earth's aren't neutral bonded as standard so current will never flow to earth and RCDs won't trip. They are safe to use as standard.
- Sep 2, 2020
- 88
- 57
- Funster No
- 75,350
- MH
- Mobilvetta Kea P68
- Exp
- Coachbult, caravan 50+yrs
Has anyone been brave enough to charge their electric bike batteries with a MSW inverter and surge control adapter?
None of the UK plug in ones seem to be 2 pole. I got something like this
if you look at the specification you will see 2 pole specified.
However this similar looking but cheaper device
www.screwfix.com
clearly says it is single pole.
However this similar looking but cheaper device
British General 13A 2-Gang SP Switched Metal Clad Passive RCD Socket with White Inserts - Screwfix
Order online at Screwfix.com. 13A max. load. Trips at 30mA. Passive operation. Heavy duty, metal-clad moulded safety RCD switched socket that protects against the risk of a fatal shock. Latched with no need to reset after a loss of power. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1...
Not so according to the specifications I have linked to.
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Usually an RCD is on a din rail in a fuse box but the socket 2 pole ones will work the same way. Not heard of a single pole one.None of the UK plug in ones seem to be 2 pole. I got something like this
if you look at the specification you will see 2 pole specified.
However this similar looking but cheaper device
clearly says it is single pole.British General 13A 2-Gang SP Switched Metal Clad Passive RCD Socket with White Inserts - Screwfix
Order online at Screwfix.com. 13A max. load. Trips at 30mA. Passive operation. Heavy duty, metal-clad moulded safety RCD switched socket that protects against the risk of a fatal shock. Latched with no need to reset after a loss of power. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1...
Not so according to the specifications I have linked to.
If you read here how they work they need 2 poles to work..
en.m.wikipedia.org
Residual-current device - Wikipedia
It may be that when they trip they just break the live.. Or it may refer to the switch that just breaks the live.
Passive is the same as latching, which means that it trips when it detects a fault but not when the power goes off. It is still a proper RCD.
Yes they all need to monitor 2 poles to work. However a single pole one only interupts one connection not both of them, which is a very serious difference with some inverters or where polarity has been reversed.
They do work but not all of them. All victron Phoenix inverters above 1,2kva are neutral bonded to the chassis of the inverter and earth wire should be bonded to the chassis for proper rcd operation. This will make a TN-C system. The multiplus inverter chargers are neutral bonded via a relay. When you hook up to mains it disconnects the bonding as soon as it connects to the hook up. This will supply grid earth TN-S, you AC in earth, is chassis bonded. As soon as you disconnect the grid, the relay connects back the neutral to chassis and becomes TN-C again. All rcd’s will work this way.
The problem is when you connect to a generator and does not have the neutral bonding and the Inverter relay opens the bond, as it detects AC in. In this situation you are left with no bonding of neutral. I have discovered that on my generator when the boiler would not fire. It can’t detect the flame if earth is missing. I bonded the generator to the chassis and Earth wire. Problem solved.
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cmcardle75
LIFE MEMBER
Single pole RCDs/RCBOs are very common. It is the first thing I check when buying them as I will only use 2 pole ones. You sometimes need to pay extra, or switch manufacturer to find one.
Perhaps you're getting confused because they also need a neutral. This does not make them two pole, it is the design of the breaker switch that determines the number of poles, not the detection circuitry.
Keep it simple, the toothbrush charge via usb, same with the laptop and camera which run off a dc supply.
You could end up spending a fortune on inverters and you could still struggle to charge your tooth brush.
I use the usb on my braun tooth brush and it works a treat after 2 different inverters and 3 new Braun chargers. I wish I knew about it earlier
it’s only becaide I asked on here I found out about it.
You could end up spending a fortune on inverters and you could still struggle to charge your tooth brush.
I use the usb on my braun tooth brush and it works a treat after 2 different inverters and 3 new Braun chargers. I wish I knew about it earlier
it’s only becaide I asked on here I found out about it.Ours are sonic ones £25 each from Amazon. Every bit as good as their hugely more expensive ones. We keep one each in the motorhome. Really simple isn't it? One less thing to forget and no inverter needed.
The early ring modifies sinewave inverters were very good, I used one for years, but these days some electronics are very sensitive and can easily be destroyed by a squarewave. GHD hair tongs dont last long on them for instance. If you value your electronics only use a quality pure sinewave inverter.
Calamaster
Free Member
I've been looking into Invertor No2 as my current one MAX output is 3000W and 2000W continuous. Current one runs everything except that damn Tassimo Coffee Machine that pulls more than 2000W ...'just' ... and so invertor cuts out. I am considering a a bit of a Monster at 7000W peak and 3500W continuous (££££!). I have a couple of Truck Leisure Batteries so should handle the draw for a Coffee...
Anyone got one of these Monsters... opinions?
Thanks
Anyone got one of these Monsters... opinions?
Thanks
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What you are asking for is 48v system territory. No way on earth two truck batteries can deliver 2000w load. Even lifepo4 will struggle above 1C draw. On my house I got 375ah at 48v and a Victron 5kva. The inverter can run full load but the batteries can’t for to long. So the only time it sees full sustained load is with additional solar output.
- Nov 19, 2019
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Wouldn't it be easier to change the coffee machine?
2000W is a lot of power for a coffee maker. My totally automatic Nespresso only takes 1200W. If it's the only thing above 1200W then consider getting a less power-hungry model.
There's a general rule of thumb that 100A is the highest comfortable current. There's lots of components and wires that will handle 100A satisfactorily, but over that they become more specialised and expensive. So for 12V systems, stick to 1200W or less. For up to 2400W, go to 24V wiring. Above 2400W, go to 48V.
Your power requirement of just over 2000W is definitely in 24V territory, and is a borderline 48V candidate.
With some parts of the system at higher voltage, you run into voltage conversion problems unless the parts are entirely separate. Not impossible, but a lot of trouble if it's just to avoid a new coffee machine.
There's a general rule of thumb that 100A is the highest comfortable current. There's lots of components and wires that will handle 100A satisfactorily, but over that they become more specialised and expensive. So for 12V systems, stick to 1200W or less. For up to 2400W, go to 24V wiring. Above 2400W, go to 48V.
Your power requirement of just over 2000W is definitely in 24V territory, and is a borderline 48V candidate.
With some parts of the system at higher voltage, you run into voltage conversion problems unless the parts are entirely separate. Not impossible, but a lot of trouble if it's just to avoid a new coffee machine.
You can certainly push it to 15-1600w on 12v, with proper terminations and appropriate cross section. I just upgraded the van inverter from 1,6kva ( 1,3kw) to 2kva (1,6kw). The manual is asking for min 70mm2. So I’m making a buss bar with each battery coming to a common point with the chargers as well. From there I’ve got less than a meter to the inverter with 70mm2 cable. I will restrict the inverter to 150A fuse, if will ever blow I will replace with the same and monitor my consumption. Before this, I have considered moving to 24v, but, I would of had to change the b2b for a 12-24, then water pump, dc-dc converter for the reminder of the 12v loads, etc. I’m stuck at 12v but I got a good 10t hydraulic crimper and I’m used to crimp big lugs.
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