Inverters and how you use them?

[Lenny HB]

OK Lenny, so how do you make non-crap coffee in your motorhome?

Geoff

With proper coffee pot a Moka type same as we do at home.

 

[two]

Do you have any comparison points to make between the 1kw and the 2kva? I haven’t said 2kw, victron does not have one. It’s 2kva, 1,6kw and the stand by load is only 1w more than the 1kw -1,2kva. Also, it will run cooler, quieter and better surge and overload capability.

To me, 2kva is 2kW but maybe there is a subtle difference. I was using the 2kW as a general benchmark/guide. For non-heating applications, 1kW ought to be adequate. Smaller ones should be more efficient, lighter and take less space. If money and payload are not a consideration, I'd be more than happy with the 2kW(ish) multiplus. I just think that such a solution is over the top. Lithium is not indestructible, you still need to look after them if you want them to survive. A bigger capacity should be viewed as enabling longer periods between charges rather than an opportunity to become more profligate in its use.

 

[donkey]

With proper coffee pot a Moka type same as we do at home.

OK. I thought you had found some fiendish new way of making good coffee.
Actually I quite like some of the Tassimo coffee.

 

[busbuddy]

Inverter is for the hairdryer and straighteners, everything else in my van runs on 12v....even on ehu the tv is still on 12v
I fitted a new longer lead to the hairdryer so it reaches the bathroom when plugged in the inverter and I'm not usually wandering around the van when she is using it so it's not a problem
I'm with lenny, microwave is dead weight and coffee machine I'm on holiday..unless tassimo start doing a vodka latte then I'm not interested

 

[Lucky]

OK. I thought you had found some fiendish new way of making good coffee.
Actually I quite like some of the Tassimo coffee.

I find the basic perculator makes a far superior drink than any machine (I have a £750 jobby at home) and all it needs is a gas ring. More to the point you have access to much better quality beans than you'd ever get in a pod.

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[Raul]

To me, 2kva is 2kW but maybe there is a subtle difference. I was using the 2kW as a general benchmark/guide. For non-heating applications, 1kW ought to be adequate. Smaller ones should be more efficient, lighter and take less space. If money and payload are not a consideration, I'd be more than happy with the 2kW(ish) multiplus. I just think that such a solution is over the top. Lithium is not indestructible, you still need to look after them if you want them to survive. A bigger capacity should be viewed as enabling longer periods between charges rather than an opportunity to become more profligate in its use.

I guess we all have different needs and the op is the only one to chose for it’s needs. While the 1kw it’s handy, I can assure you the 2kva is not over the top. It’s just a different category of needs. Of course there is 5kva if you think the 2 is over the top. There are good points in choosing a smaller inverter, but you will forever be limited, unless you upgrade. Since such a outlay does not happen often, great consideration should be given to a realistic max power load. I have underestimated my peak draw in the past and tried to keep the inverter as small as possible to my needs. In the hind side I should of gone bigger first time.

 

[BDM]

I guess we all have different needs and the op is the only one to chose for it’s needs. While the 1kw it’s handy, I can assure you the 2kva is not over the top. It’s just a different category of needs. Of course there is 5kva if you think the 2 is over the top. There are good points in choosing a smaller inverter, but you will forever be limited, unless you upgrade. Since such a outlay does not happen often, great consideration should be given to a realistic max power load. I have underestimated my peak draw in the past and tried to keep the inverter as small as possible to my needs. In the hind side I should of gone bigger first time.

Me too!

 

[funflair]

100% is as a retrofit, have it hard wired in via an auto switchover relay to the 230v cable section from the fuse box. Fused correctly of course

If it’s a network compensating or combi inverter it won’t need a switchover relay as it all happens in the inverter/charger.

 

[funflair]

The only one I know of is the Victron Multiplus inverter/charger, various models of different powers. If you will also be buying a new charger for the lithium batteries, you could consider buying a combined inverter/charger. These have advantages beyond simply having them both in the same box. They will coordinate, and automatically switch from hookup to inverter when the hookup is disconnected.

Separate inverters can't be used in combination with the hookup supply, but inverter/chargers can. You can set a limit on the hookup power draw, say 6 amps, and the inverter will allow a load of more than 6 amps by boosting from the batteries while the load is high. When the load is reduced, the charger tops up the batteries again, keeping within the 6 amp limit.

If you don't get a combined inverter/charger, you will need to wire in a relay (or a manual switch) to switch the mains charger off when the inverter is on.

A big consideration for an inverter is the no-load power draw. For the cheaper inverters this can be quite high, and hidden in the small print of the specs. If you only use it for short bursts of high power, and otherwise switch it off, that's not a problem. If you intend to use it for long-term loads like a fridge, battery charger or laptop charger then it's important.

I have a complicated setup, with separate inverter batteries, but to answer your question, all the sockets of the MH are connected to the inverter.

We have the Buttner Inverter/charger Mastervolt also do them.

 

[Raul]

We have the Buttner Inverter/charger Mastervolt also do them.

Outback also, very good specially the sealed units, 7 functions in one unit. And there is the mighty studer, also lots of China copies like voltacon, mpp solar aka PIP. Victron came from boat applications and expanded towards off grid in the last 10-15 years. Most of reputable inverter chargers are accredited and certified to connect to the grid. Single inverter only, not so.
That’s why there is only a handful of inverter charger manufacturers. They go to the lengths of certifying and get accreditations in many countries, and catch a large market.
Multiplus is acredited for energy storage with PV inverters, across the world.

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[two]

I think there may be others, but the multiplus will supplement the incoming supply and boost it if there is insufficient power. Many inverter/chargers will only supply up to what the EHU can provide and any 'spare' is used to charge the battery. With multiplus, you can hook up to a 6A supply and still use a 13A kettle (should you wish to) without tripping the bollard.

 

[funflair]

I think there may be others, but the multiplus will supplement the incoming supply and boost it if there is insufficient power. Many inverter/chargers will only supply up to what the EHU can provide and any 'spare' is used to charge the battery. With multiplus, you can hook up to a 6A supply and still use a 13A kettle (should you wish to) without tripping the bollard.

Yes that’s the network compensation bit, different name from different manufacturers most likely but all the same idea, compensates for a poor network supply.

 

[Raul]

I think there may be others, but the multiplus will supplement the incoming supply and boost it if there is insufficient power. Many inverter/chargers will only supply up to what the EHU can provide and any 'spare' is used to charge the battery. With multiplus, you can hook up to a 6A supply and still use a 13A kettle (should you wish to) without tripping the bollard.

All accredited inverter chargers, do what victron does to. I had outback Vfr3000 and I know. The advantage with victron is endless system intergration, priced competitive and ease of availability. Also they are compatible with many other leading manufacturers like SMA, Fronius, Solar Edge etc. when it comes for bigger systems. Back in the day, the leading manufacturer for solar chargers Morningstar, you would needed to get a mortgage. Now anyone can afford that technology buying a victron.
The leisure market is small in comparison to the renewables, so victron played smart and made their products very appealing and possible to a broader market.

 

[Delboyarapaho]

I don’t know what that is,
Search for victron multiplus compact 12/1600/70 or 12/2000/80

Thanks again for your help Raul

 

[mitzimad]

OK Lenny, so how do you make non-crap coffee in your motorhome?

Geoff

They were making coffee before we had electrics

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[Lenny HB]

I find the basic perculator makes a far superior drink than any machine (I have a £750 jobby at home) and all it needs is a gas ring. More to the point you have access to much better quality beans than you'd ever get in a pod.

View attachment 486200

That is a Moka pot we use Stainless Steel versions in the van and at home.
A Percolator is what our mums used to use to crucify coffee.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Only really use ours for charging the e-bikes, occasionally gets used for a kettle for a brew on the Chunnel or ferry port when the gas is off.
Laptops, tablets, phones, toothbrushes etc., we use 12v chargers as it is more efficient.
Can't see the point of a microwave in a Motorhome.

I wired mine with a changeover relay so all the sockets are connected to the inverter and when you plug EHU in they swap over to the mains input. Fridge & charger are connected so they only work with EHU.

Remind me which relay you used please ?. My Techno version And Clive Mott a contact or worked great with my original inverter. But when I upgraded to the Victron, there is not enough delay if you fail to turn off inverter before you hook-up.

 

[Lenny HB]

Remind me which relay you used please ?. My Techno version And Clive Mott a contact or worked great with my original inverter. But when I upgraded to the Victron, there is not enough delay if you fail to turn off inverter before you hook-up.

I've never had the inverter on when hooking up so I don't know if there would be a problem. It was a 30amp one from Hong Kong on eBay not seen it listed since.
You could try wiring your relay coil to the inverter so the relay is on when the inverter is on so it will change over when you turn the inverter off. You would need to reverse your contact wiring.

 

[Lucky]

That is a Moka pot we use Stainless Steel versions in the van and at home.
A Percolator is what our mums used to use to crucify coffee.

Oh, in my house its called a percolator but I defer to your knowledge

 

[Lenny HB]

Oh, in my house its called a perculator but I defer to your knowledge

Coffee percolator - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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[EuroTrotters]

I've never had the inverter on when hooking up so I don't know if there would be a problem. It was a 30amp one from Hong Kong on eBay not seen it listed since.
You could try wiring your relay coil to the inverter so the relay is on when the inverter is on so it will change over when you turn the inverter off. You would need to reverse your contact wiring.

Thanks. I’ve bought one of those sterling auto changeovers. I’m just waiting for the con1 battery / fridge / heater disconnect relay to arrive

 

[the1andonly]

Proper ludite me
Still drink tea, old school leaf even, none of this bag or strainer nonsence.
The only need for an inverter is for the washing machine or charging 24v batteries. 800w msw
Or whilst driving a 150w on a slow cooker.
Suss what you need not what others think you should need.
Now to reinforce that point you dont need a fancy coffee machine, is camp coffee still available?

 

[Lenny HB]

is camp coffee still available?

 

[IanRJ]

I wired mine with a changeover relay so all the sockets are connected to the inverter and when you plug EHU in they swap over to the mains input. Fridge & charger are connected so they only work with EHU.

Hi Lenny - would you share the Relay model you used to do this switching?
Also do you use any sort of socket 'sensor' to auto switch the inverter on and off or is that still a manual process in your setup?

TIA

 

[Lenny HB]

Hi Lenny - would you share the Relay model you used to do this switching?
Also do you use any sort of socket 'sensor' to auto switch the inverter on and off or is that still a manual process in your setup?

TIA

It was a 30amp changeover relay I got from eBay from a Hong Kong seller, it's no longer listed.

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[IanRJ]

It was a 30amp changeover relay I got from eBay from a Hong Kong seller, it's no longer listed.

Cheers Lenny - I'm looking at a 16a 230v Finder relay that I suspect will be sufficient for the job. Do you use any sort of load sensor to turn the inverter on and off?

 

[Lenny HB]

Cheers Lenny - I'm looking at a 16a 230v Finder relay that I suspect will be sufficient for the job. Do you use any sort of load sensor to turn the inverter on and off?

What the spec on the really some have 30 amp NO contacts but the NC are only 5 amp.

Mine is a cheapish inverter I fitted a battery isolator switch to isolate it when not in use and a 100 relay in series the isolator with a switch in the van that is also wired to a small relay which is wired to the inverter switch to turn it on.

 

[IanRJ]

What the spec on the really some have 30 amp NO contacts but the NC are only 5 amp.

Mine is a cheapish inverter I fitted a battery isolator switch to isolate it when not in use and a 100 relay in series the isolator with a switch in the van that is also wired to a small relay which is wired to the inverter switch to turn it on.

Cheers Lenny - appreciate the feedback.

 

[IanRJ]

What the spec on the really some have 30 amp NO contacts but the NC are only 5 amp.

Mine is a cheapish inverter I fitted a battery isolator switch to isolate it when not in use and a 100 relay in series the isolator with a switch in the van that is also wired to a small relay which is wired to the inverter switch to turn it on.

Its a 62.32.8.230.0040 at 16/20 Amp rated. No mention of lower ratings on any of the other terminals. I have seen this one used in similar applications, but obviously never in a MH for this purpose! This one has a test latch on it and a lock latch to hold a selected state if necessary (not intending to use that though.

I had also seen (though I might be mistaken, I'm struggling to find it now) a video of someone creating a load sensor to attach to a socket, with a nominal 5v feed to it. When the feed was drawn by a plug being inserted into the socket, it energised a relay which switched something else on. I was thinking that might be a good idea for the 240 circuit in the van (only when NOT of EHU) to actually switch the inverter on only when someone plugged something in. That way the inverter would not be on all of the time, drawing battery energy? I know for sure we will forget to switch the inverter off at some point!

 

[Lenny HB]

The relay looks OK but the load sensor sounds a bit OTT, what about fitting LED's in or beside your sockets that are lit when the inverter is on.

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