Inverter producing ~300v AC !?!?!?!? (1 Viewer)

[poindexter]

Hey forum, this situation seems a bit strange to me.

I just installed my inverter (Renogy R-INVT-PUH1-301235) and hooked it up to my lithium battery bank.

The lithium batteries are fully charged and currently outputting 14.19 volts. The solar panels are in direct sunlight and the MPPT charge controller is on float. I can see that there is only 1 watt currently coming off the solar charge controllers.

So I powered up the inverter and took a measure of its output voltage. Its bouncing between 290v and 300v AC. This cannot surely be normal?

I noticed that the inverter has a high level of parasitic draw (approx 1.5 watts). So I left it on overnight while the solar panels have no light so that the batteries drain a bit. I measured the voltage this morning and it read 238v AC coming off the inverter. Nice.

This is a problem though? I will be charging this battery bank from solar and also alternator so most of the time those batteries are going to be fully charged. Which means most of the time im going to be getting 300v AC to all my 240v sockets.

What are your thoughts? Is this a problem or is it normal? Has anyone else seen this before?

I don't want to fry my equipment...

 

[Googlebot]

That does seem high.

I often don’t trust the cheaper inverters, they work but have fried some of my stuff in the past.

I would keep an eye on it and see what happens.

Test it using something dumb like a heating element etc and see what it does. If it goes outside the range again, I would get it replaced.

 

[meanders]

You need some form of load on the inverter to accurately measure the voltage. With just a very high impedence meter attached the inverter is sensing no load so the oscillator will run high and will as you have seen fluctuate the perceived output. Put an old style mains bulb (25, 40 or 60W) on it and it will stabilise.

 

[Lenny HB]

If the solar controller is on float it should be 13.5/13.6v not 14.19 that would be bulk or absorption.

Unless it is a good quality pure sine wave inverter it's probably going to read high on a digital meter.
I too no longer trust cheap inverters.

 

[meanders]

But it is a pure sign wave inverter the OP has from a recognised brand.

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[Lenny HB]

But it is a pure sign wave inverter the OP has from a recognised brand.

A very cheap brand.

 

[Raul]

Hey forum, this situation seems a bit strange to me.

I just installed my inverter (Renogy R-INVT-PUH1-301235) and hooked it up to my lithium battery bank.

The lithium batteries are fully charged and currently outputting 14.19 volts. The solar panels are in direct sunlight and the MPPT charge controller is on float. I can see that there is only 1 watt currently coming off the solar charge controllers.

So I powered up the inverter and took a measure of its output voltage. Its bouncing between 290v and 300v AC. This cannot surely be normal?

I noticed that the inverter has a high level of parasitic draw (approx 1.5 watts). So I left it on overnight while the solar panels have no light so that the batteries drain a bit. I measured the voltage this morning and it read 238v AC coming off the inverter. Nice.

This is a problem though? I will be charging this battery bank from solar and also alternator so most of the time those batteries are going to be fully charged. Which means most of the time im going to be getting 300v AC to all my 240v sockets.

What are your thoughts? Is this a problem or is it normal? Has anyone else seen this before?

I don't want to fry my equipment...

If its a high frequency transistor type, its possible one or more transistors are not switching properly to generate the fixed AC voltage.
Victron is a hybrid, is using the transistors to regulate the waveform, then the transformer to up the voltage, much more reliable.

Also the idle load is to small, telling the transistors are duff. In normal idle load you should see a 15-20w draw as the transistors switching are eating power; no way round that.
Return it or bin it.

 

[poindexter]

Its a pure sine wave inverter so my meter reading should be true.

It wasn't really all that cheap either. I want to know if this is a malfunction or not. Im not comfortable running my equipment off 300v AC!

I plugged in a soldering iron into it and the voltage dropped to between 250v AC and 260v AC. Still too high.

I would have happily bought a more expensive one if I could find one that A, had a large output capacity [min 3000 w] and B, had a remote off switch. Everywhere I looked I couldn't find both of the above.

 

[Googlebot]

Its a pure sine wave inverter so my meter reading should be true.

It wasn't really all that cheap either. I want to know if this is a malfunction or not. Im not comfortable running my equipment off 300v AC!

I plugged in a soldering iron into it and the voltage dropped to between 250v AC and 260v AC. Still too high.

I would have happily bought a more expensive one if I could find one that A, had a large output capacity [min 3000 w] and B, had a remote off switch. Everywhere I looked I couldn't find both of the above not even Victron.

3000w is a huge inverter and will take a massive battery bank circa 260 amps to run. You will need huge cabling to make it work.

Often the cheaper ones also don’t have the rated output and will overheat.

Victron will run at the rated output all day. If you can return it, I would and have a rethink.

What is it you want to run that needs 3000w?

 

[Lenny HB]

3000w is a huge inverter and will take a massive battery bank circa 260 amps to run. You will need huge cabling to make it work.

I think you meant 1260 ah but he has Lithium so would be OK with 400 ah

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[Googlebot]

I think you meant 1260 ah but he has Lithium so would be OK with 400 ah

I meant the current draw while operating. It needs a massive battery bank or you won’t be drawing that much for very long.

Sorry, wasn’t very clear.

 

[MichaelT]

Its a pure sine wave inverter so my meter reading should be true.

It wasn't really all that cheap either. I want to know if this is a malfunction or not. Im not comfortable running my equipment off 300v AC!

I plugged in a soldering iron into it and the voltage dropped to between 250v AC and 260v AC. Still too high.

I would have happily bought a more expensive one if I could find one that A, had a large output capacity [min 3000 w] and B, had a remote off switch. Everywhere I looked I couldn't find both of the above.

Sunshine solar

 

[meanders]

The mains supply can be anything from 216.2 volts to 253.0 volts, so that's not wildly out of tolerance. There should be a spec for your model in the manual. If it's out of spec, return it.

All equipment sold in the UK should be tested at and tolerate 264v being +10%. The 'cooked equipment' problem usually arises with inverter s because it outputs something nearer a square wave, usually if a load changes suddenly and anything with a switched mode PSU will not like it.

 

[poindexter]

I have re read the manual. It is very light in info. I am a bit pissed off with it TBH.

 

[poindexter]

A very cheap brand.

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[poindexter]

3000w is a huge inverter and will take a massive battery bank circa 260 amps to run. You will need huge cabling to make it work.

Often the cheaper ones also don’t have the rated output and will overheat.

Victron will run at the rated output all day. If you can return it, I would and have a rethink.

What is it you want to run that needs 3000w?

3000w may actually not be enough. I was the biggest I could find though. I have a separate 3000w petrol geni that I will likely have to use as well.

The total battery capacity is 400ah. I also have an uprated alternator to deliver more juice when needed simultaneously.

I want to be able to sit in a field for a week or even a month and cook my food off my electric hob. By my calculations the uprated alternator will actually provide the power that the hob needs without draining the batteries.

What do I want to use it for? Depends what I am doing really. I will either be living in it or entertaining a large crowd of people at a festival.

Living:
Electrical hob
Kettle
Fridge

Entertaining:
A big subwoofer
A smoke machine
A laser (2.5w)
A strobe light
A couple of low wattage mood lights
Two mid range monitor speakers
Two pioneer XDJ1000 MK2's
A pioneer DJM-250 mixer

 

[Lenny HB]

It wasn't really all that cheap either.

⅓ of the price of a Victron, you tend to get what you pay for with inverters.

 

[poindexter]

3000w is a huge inverter and will take a massive battery bank circa 260 amps to run. You will need huge cabling to make it work.

Often the cheaper ones also don’t have the rated output and will overheat.

Victron will run at the rated output all day. If you can return it, I would and have a rethink.

What is it you want to run that needs 3000w?

Yes crimping those big ass cables was quite painful (literally). They are so fat my regular wire cutters cant even cut them.

 

[AdrianChen]

Had a Mastervolt Combi Pro 24/3500/100 on the last boat - that had a remote. They also do a 12/3000/150 version - Good kit I think, but a bit expensive.

 

[Googlebot]

Do you have any solar? Might save running the engine? Even with that much battery capacity, you won’t get more than about 90 minutes at full capacity.

Victron also do a multiplus which when coupled with a generator, will charge you up in no time. It’s not cheap, but then doing what you propose was never going to be cheap. It’s also a 3000VA output available at 12v.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-MultiPlus-inverter-charger-800VA-5kVA-EN.pdf

Sounds like a great party to be at.

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[Raul]

3000w may actually not be enough. I was the biggest I could find though. I have a separate 3000w petrol geni that I will likely have to use as well.

The total battery capacity is 400ah. I also have an uprated alternator to deliver more juice when needed simultaneously.

I want to be able to sit in a field for a week or even a month and cook my food off my electric hob. By my calculations the uprated alternator will actually provide the power that the hob needs without draining the batteries.

What do I want to use it for? Depends what I am doing really. I will either be living in it or entertaining a large crowd of people at a festival.

Living:
Electrical hob
Kettle
Fridge

Entertaining:
A big subwoofer
A smoke machine
A laser (2.5w)
A strobe light
A couple of low wattage mood lights
Two mid range monitor speakers
Two pioneer XDJ1000 MK2's
A pioneer DJM-250 mixer

For that kind of usage, forget about Renogy. Look towards victron, outback or studer. And hope you have 70mm2 cables, good hydraulically pressed crimps, an lots of lithium, at least 6kwh. Allot of folk are bonkers with 3kw inverter at 12v, is akin for 24v as you pass 2500w.
I hope you can return the rover, the sooner the better.

 

[Gromett]

Hey forum, this situation seems a bit strange to me.

I just installed my inverter (Renogy R-INVT-PUH1-301235) and hooked it up to my lithium battery bank.

So I powered up the inverter and took a measure of its output voltage. Its bouncing between 290v and 300v AC. This cannot surely be normal?

With the 300V being mentioned my brain immediately jumped to peak vs RMS measurements. The 240VAC of the UK system is the RMS value. The peak to peak value is over 300V from memory.
It is possible the inverter is 220v which x 1.414 (again from memory) that would be 311V peak to peak.

Probably not the answer, but is your multimeter measuring peak to peak.

Raul probably has a better answer. My memory is from courses and apprenticeship in the late 80s early 90s and I have not done much with it since.

 

[stevewagner]

Best of luck with Renogy after sales service. They will have you jumping through hoops.

 

[autorouter]

I think you should reconsider your whole setup. Your total 12V habitation circuits will very likely only add up to about 200W to 300W (lights, water pump,TV, fridge and heater controls). Your 230V requirement you say is at least 3000W, probably more, far exceeding the hab 12V side. 3000W will require a current of 250A at 12V. Also I can't see a way of adding to that with your generator, you would have to plug in appliances separately to the inverter and generator.

If you had a Multiplus inverter/charger, you could fire up the generator and feed it into the Multiplus. The Multiplus would pass the generator power straight through, and boost its power by inverting the DC supply from the batteries. You can set a limit on the power taken from the generator.

For such a high power requirement, it would definitely be an idea to consider a higher voltage battery bank. A 24V or 48V bank would reduce the amps to half or a quarter of the amps at 12V. You can probably do this by just rearranging your existing batteries to give you 24V or 48V.

I have a 7kWh 48V battery bank, equivalent to nearly 700Ah at 12V. It supplies a Multiplus 3000, which can supply 2400W of 230V mains power. I can connect a hookup, or a generator if I had one, to the Multiplus. If the hookup supply is 1500W, I can set the Multiplus to use the hookup/generator, and if it needs more power it will use the inverter to generate power from the batteries, up to an extra 2400W.

The 48V battery bank is charged from a 12V-to-48V B2B which draws 70A from the alternator. It charges up at about 10% per hour of driving.

For the 12V habitation, I have a single 100Ah lead-acid battery, charged by a Victron IP65 15A mains charger, which runs from the inverter. It also charges when driving, using the original split charge relay.

The Multiplus charger charges at about 1700W, equivalent to a 140A 12V charger, ie about 25% per hour. If I had a generator I could use that. I can use a hookup if there is one at the aire I am staying on. Or I can charge from an EV charge point.

I don't have any solar (yet), but if I did I would need at least two panels in series to get the voltage needed to charge a 48V battery.The MPPT would probably need about 70V at least to charge a 48V battery.

 

[AdrianChen]

I think you should reconsider your whole setup. Your total 12V habitation circuits will very likely only add up to about 200W to 300W (lights, water pump,TV, fridge and heater controls). Your 230V requirement you say is at least 3000W, probably more, far exceeding the hab 12V side. 3000W will require a current of 250A at 12V. Also I can't see a way of adding to that with your generator, you would have to plug in appliances separately to the inverter and generator.

If you had a Multiplus inverter/charger, you could fire up the generator and feed it into the Multiplus. The Multiplus would pass the generator power straight through, and boost its power by inverting the DC supply from the batteries. You can set a limit on the power taken from the generator.

For such a high power requirement, it would definitely be an idea to consider a higher voltage battery bank. A 24V or 48V bank would reduce the amps to half or a quarter of the amps at 12V. You can probably do this by just rearranging your existing batteries to give you 24V or 48V.

I have a 7kWh 48V battery bank, equivalent to nearly 700Ah at 12V. It supplies a Multiplus 3000, which can supply 2400W of 230V mains power. I can connect a hookup, or a generator if I had one, to the Multiplus. If the hookup supply is 1500W, I can set the Multiplus to use the hookup/generator, and if it needs more power it will use the inverter to generate power from the batteries, up to an extra 2400W.

The 48V battery bank is charged from a 12V-to-48V B2B which draws 70A from the alternator. It charges up at about 10% per hour of driving.

For the 12V habitation, I have a single 100Ah lead-acid battery, charged by a Victron IP65 15A mains charger, which runs from the inverter. It also charges when driving, using the original split charge relay.

The Multiplus charger charges at about 1700W, equivalent to a 140A 12V charger, ie about 25% per hour. If I had a generator I could use that. I can use a hookup if there is one at the aire I am staying on. Or I can charge from an EV charge point.

I don't have any solar (yet), but if I did I would need at least two panels in series to get the voltage needed to charge a 48V battery.The MPPT would probably need about 70V at least to charge a 48V battery.

Multiplus and similar can always be paralleled to get more output, but 24v/48v makes sense at the higher outputs to drop the amperage down, especialy if a high output alternator is in the mix....

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[oldiesontour]

With ref to your original question the output voltage will almost certainly fall with a bigger load a soldering iron is as little as 15watt.
Asking 3kw for long periods on 12v is not a sensible idea also running any inverter at max rated power for long periods is not good.As already said a 24 or better still 48v supply would be far better and safer and ultimately cheaper that is why they are used in off grid property

 

[poindexter]

Do you have any solar? Might save running the engine? Even with that much battery capacity, you won’t get more than about 90 minutes at full capacity.

Victron also do a multiplus which when coupled with a generator, will charge you up in no time. It’s not cheap, but then doing what you propose was never going to be cheap. It’s also a 3000VA output available at 12v.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-MultiPlus-inverter-charger-800VA-5kVA-EN.pdf

Sounds like a great party to be at.

Certainly do, there are 6 solar panels on the roof totalling about 550w of solar. From what I have seen so far they don't generate a great deal of power but maybe thats just British sunlight for you. Be interesting to see how they perform in Spain next year.

 

[Googlebot]

Certainly do, there are 6 solar panels on the roof totalling about 550w of solar. From what I have seen so far they don't generate a great deal of power but maybe thats just British sunlight for you. Be interesting to see how they perform in Spain next year.

Looking around 30 amps in full sun with that so it will be very useful.