Interesting Video

[autorouter]

Lithium batteries are like lead-acid batteries in many ways but they are totally different in many ways too.

One big difference is float charging. Lead-acid batteries deteriorate if they are left in anything less than 100% charge for any length of time. To avoid this, they are float charged, ie a constant small current to compensate for self-discharge.

Lithium batteries do not deteriorate if left partly charged. Indeed they are best stored long-term at about 50% charge. They do not need or like float charging. If they are cycled between 20% and 80%, they will last for decades.

Another big difference is low temperature charging. Lithium charging systems really need a temperature sensor to avoid charging ar low temperatures. And high temperatures too, actually. Using chargers designed for lead-acid batteries when the temperature gets low is asking for trouble. The best battery management systems will divert to a heater pad under the batteries if the temperature is low, rather than sending the power in to charge the batteries.

 

[CazPaul]

Lithium batteries are like lead-acid batteries in many ways but they are totally different in many ways too.

One big difference is float charging. Lead-acid batteries deteriorate if they are left in anything less than 100% charge for any length of time. To avoid this, they are float charged, ie a constant small current to compensate for self-discharge.

Lithium batteries do not deteriorate if left partly charged. Indeed they are best stored long-term at about 50% charge. They do not need or like float charging. If they are cycled between 20% and 80%, they will last for decades.

Another big difference is low temperature charging. Lithium charging systems really need a temperature sensor to avoid charging ar low temperatures. And high temperatures too, actually. Using chargers designed for lead-acid batteries when the temperature gets low is asking for trouble. The best battery management systems will divert to a heater pad under the batteries if the temperature is low, rather than sending the power in to charge the batteries.

Ah, now the last bit is what I was looking for, I can see that being a good idea

So do all lithium systems have a heat pad underneath then?

 

[funflair]

Ah, now the last bit is what I was looking for, I can see that being a good idea

So do all lithium systems have a heat pad underneath then?

Not as far as I know.

 

[Blue Knight]

The Transporter data sheet says that they will charge from -4C it also says they have low temperature protection built in, I know that doesn't answer your question though, I think only Transporter could answer that.

That's an interesting figure from the Transporter guys (-4C) as the equivalent Victron units seem to consider +5C and above to be the preferred choice.

The funny thing about 'Lithium' from what I've read recently is that so many manufacturers and folk have such different views on how to use them correctly.

It's definitely a developing technology.

Here's a screenshot from the Victron site regarding the 12v 100Ah Lithium Superpack unit:

 

[funflair]

And Super-B, yes they are all different

• Charge temperature
  0°C to 45°C / 32°F to 113°F
• Discharge temperature
  -10°C to 55°C / 14°F to 131°F
• Storage temperature
  -20°C to 45°C / -4°F to 113°F
  
  
  

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[Hirsch]

This seems to provide a balanced view. To me anyway (I am no expert).

Lithium Battery Technology Does Not Work For All Motorhomes

Lithium technology Batteries

www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk

 

[autorouter]

This seems to provide a balanced view. To me anyway (I am no expert).

Lithium Battery Technology Does Not Work For All Motorhomes

Lithium technology Batteries

www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk

Where do you start? Let's assume the fellow is well-meaning, but he makes arithmetical errors and draws erroneous conclusions from the results. He says:

"According to that graph, if we assume that the very shallow 20% DOD discharge figure is equivalent to 3,000 cycles, then the 100% figure is a miserable 500 cycles."

From the graph, the 20% DOD figure is 3x10^4 which is 30,000 cycles, not 3000. To put that in perspective, at one cycle per day that's more than 82 years.

The 100% figure is actually 0.3, not 0.5, so that's 0.3x10^4 = 3000 cycles. At one cycle per day that's over 8 years. 8 years at 100% DOD sounds pretty good to me.

 

[Hirsch]

Where do you start? Let's assume the fellow is well-meaning, but he makes arithmetical errors and draws erroneous conclusions from the results. He says:

"According to that graph, if we assume that the very shallow 20% DOD discharge figure is equivalent to 3,000 cycles, then the 100% figure is a miserable 500 cycles."

From the graph, the 20% DOD figure is 3x10^4 which is 30,000 cycles, not 3000. To put that in perspective, at one cycle per day that's more than 82 years.

The 100% figure is actually 0.3, not 0.5, so that's 0.3x10^4 = 3000 cycles. At one cycle per day that's over 8 years. 8 years at 100% DOD sounds pretty good to me.

I did point out I am not an expert. And I didn't bother checking the maths, as I aren't interested in Lithium batteries

 

[TheCaller]

I wondered why I didn't recognise the name. They are only sold over here as Transporter Energy. In the States, they are known as Battle Born, which will be a familiar name to anyone who has been following lithium battery development.

 

[two]

As far as I know the life of a Lithium battery is determined by the ability of a BMS to protect it. A good BMS will monitor the temperature and not permit charging above or below critical temperatures. It will also control output if capacity drops below 25% depth of charge and input above 80%. Such protection s designed to prolong the life and capacity of such batteries.

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[Blue Knight]

Let's assume the fellow is well-meaning.....

Yep, he was certainly that IMO. What I admired so much about Alan was his sheer determination to challenge the system and the NCC as a whole.

If there were more people like him in our industry/hobby then perhaps the quality, usability and practicality of the motorhomes being churned out by the British Motorhome Mafia would be far better than it is now.

RIP Alan - he was a real champion

 

[Zepp]

WOW guys all the above just to keep my beers cold

Just like to say Thankyou for all the fantastic reply’s the knowledge on this forum is unbelievable if anyone complains about the subs you have to pay, point them in the direction of this thread

When I spoke to Tom at RV Insulation he was very professional and knowledgable I had no idea what he was talking about at the time but your reply’s on this thread has helped me understand what he was saying

I will try and post some pictures and leave a review when the work is completed , may be a slight delay because we are leaving the next day for Europe

One thing I liked about Tom he took the time to ask what I wanted and I also received a written estimate also he asked me to send pictures of my current setup

Thanx again

 

[CazPaul]

WOW guys all the above just to keep my beers cold

Just like to say Thankyou for all the fantastic reply’s the knowledge on this forum is unbelievable if anyone complains about the subs you have to pay, point them in the direction of this thread

When I spoke to Tom at RV Insulation he was very professional and knowledgable I had no idea what he was talking about at the time but your reply’s on this thread has helped me understand what he was saying

I will try and post some pictures and leave a review when the work is completed , may be a slight delay because we are leaving the next day for Europe

One thing I liked about Tom he took the time to ask what I wanted and I also received a written estimate also he asked me to send pictures of my current setup

Thanx again

I thought transporter energy were the firm doing the work on your van, are they the same company as RV insulation?

 

[Zepp]

I thought transporter energy were the firm doing the work on your van, are they the same company as RV insulation?

Not 100% sure I think transporter energy are the battery company and RV Installations are the fitting service

Quite a few dealers are now offering these batteries

 

[Blue Knight]

WOW guys all the above just to keep my beers cold

Just like to say Thankyou for all the fantastic reply’s the knowledge on this forum is unbelievable if anyone complains about the subs you have to pay, point them in the direction of this thread

When I spoke to Tom at RV Insulation he was very professional and knowledgable I had no idea what he was talking about at the time but your reply’s on this thread has helped me understand what he was saying

I will try and post some pictures and leave a review when the work is completed , may be a slight delay because we are leaving the next day for Europe

One thing I liked about Tom he took the time to ask what I wanted and I also received a written estimate also he asked me to send pictures of my current setup

Thanx again

I'm really chuffed for you and it sounds as if they've built you a nice setup.

How about having a word with your new mate Tom and ask him about a "10% discount for Motorhome Fun Members".

All the best,

Andrew

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[Zepp]

I'm really chuffed for you and it sounds as if they've built you a nice setup.

How about having a word with your new mate Tom and ask him about a "10% discount for Motorhome Fun Members".

All the best,

Andrew

LoL I will ask

 

[Blue Knight]

LoL I will ask

Just make sure that you get an answer before you pay, lol.

You don't want to miss out yourself. He already owes you for the publicity ;-)