Insurance companies - a law unto themselves

[chaser]

As an aside to this , how do you value anything and tell the insurance, if I added something to our van I wouldn't have dreamed of telling the insurance about it as I would assume it's added nothing to the value that someone else would pay, and write it off as hard luck if something happened to it, similar if you go and load up with a grands worth of booze you wouldn't dream of telling the insurance, even though you have added value, well nearly doubled its value in our case.

 

[Portland]

I don't know if this has been said in this post but to be frank, it is an accepted fact that no matter what you add in the way of equipment to a MH they make little difference to the value of it. When you change or sell the MH take them off and fit to new vehicle or sell them, you will only get a fraction of there value. That said the insurance company has sensed extra money, do not let them cancel the insurance because when you get quotes for renewing insurance one of the questions is ( have you ever had your insurance cancelled or refused) and it will be all on record.

 

[Pausim]

Heh, heh! Unexpectedly, this situation has given me a laugh. When Chaser said "Try nfu they don't really bother what you say it's worth.....'' I thought it was an acronym meaning I could try, but it was ''no effing use'' cos they don't care what you say. I hadn't realised until Pauism made the next comment that NFU is a company! (Been living out of the country for 20-odd years) Thanks for the laugh, and thanks for the tip. I'll contact them and find out what they have to say.

Not all NFU agents are interested in motorhomes, NFU at Brockenhurst 01590 624744 (Christian Brown) has been very helpful and is keen to have motorhome business.

 

[Otter Spotter]

I wonder if anyone has encountered a similar problem to ours with High & Mighty insurance companies? They really are a law unto themselves. Any advice on our problem would be much appreciated.

Our issue is that, after radically improving our motorhome with lots of industry-standard improvements (solar panels, lithium batteries, levelling kit, air suspension, etc), we applied to increase the ''sum insured'' on our motorhome, but were knocked back. All of the jobs were professionally installed and we have full invoices and receipts from reputable dealers, but no. We're insured through the club, through Devitt Insurance. Indeed, not only were we knocked back, but they say they are going to cancel our insurance!!! The killer line after telling us they would not allow us to increase the sum insured was,

''......if we do not hear from you within the next 7 days we will proceed with cancellation of this insurance due to unacceptable mid-term adjustment''

Unacceptable??? We were trying not only to protect our investment, but also to give them more business. What is unacceptable about that?

We've spent £45K on improving it, so it seemed only sensible to re-evaluate and pay more premium to be covered properly in case of loss. We're not rich or anything, but this is the pinnacle now of our motorhoming lives as we reach retirement age. We started off in an old Bedford CF in 1980 and have worked our way up through combi's and what-not to our current Kontiki 649. We think it will be our last motorhome (forty years in) so we pushed the boat out on this one to get it as good as we could while we still have earning power.

Has anybody had a similar experience? Is there an insurance ombudsperson we can contact? How can it be legal for them to withdraw our insurance because we've asked to pay to increase the sum insured? We were offering them MORE business. It seems absurd. The world's gone bonkers.

All opinions welcome! Mick & Lisa.

Apart from the fact that you may have spent more on improvements than the Van is worth, you may have massively increased the all up weight for which the chassis is not designed to carry.
i am not an expert, but it’s rather like building a conservatory on your house costing £20,000 and expecting the value if your house to group by the same, it doesn’t happen.

 

[Steve and Denise]

We have used NFU Spalding for the last 8 years our last 2vans have been in excess of £100k and still what we thought a reasonable premium,
We also had our last super car insured with them also a very good price last year we bought another super car and their quote was 4 fold due to some expensive payouts (not us),
We looked elsewhere and got the car cover at around £1,000 fully comp agreed value.

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[Rosemary1]

Yes, I’ve got invoices and receipts from all the reputable dealers who’ve done the work and I’ve supplied the insurance company with it all. But I won’t list it all specifically here, Vipar, ‘cos it can come across as showing off and then you get snotty comments about why you did it all, and snipe, snipe, and I don’t want to go there. Indeed, I’d LIKE to share it all with you, ‘cos it’s been dead interesting and satisfying to do, but I know it will open a can of snidey worms if I do so online. You can even see in some of the replies in this thread here, an element of that, in people having ‘’sympathy’’ for the insurance companies (I ask you!) and the implication that we deserve their tactics because we’ve been ‘’daft enough’’ to spend so much. Can’t be arsed with all that, so I’ll steer clear of specifics, Buddy, if you don’t mind. But by all means, if you want to contact me privately I’ll be happy to tell you. I’m made up with the results, but just would be happier if I could insure it all. Cheers, Mick.

It’s your money and you can do whatever you like with it. I have had people tell me not to do this, they would do that, wouldn’t waste their money etc over holidays, houses, vehicles, horses etc. If you wanted the extras and can afford them - good on yer, enjoy them

Agree that your insurance company is being very short sighted, I would of thought it would of been just a matter to ringing them and proof you had spent the increase in value. Surely their job is to insurer!

 

[trophychap]

One other thing no one has mentioned is what did the actual parts you have had fitted cost? If for example the parts cost lets say twenty thousand, but the labour to fit the parts cost twenty five thousand. Do you expect the insurance company to cover the cost of fitting. Personally I can't see that happening.

 

[Pausim]

I think you should establish whether the mid term amendment was unacceptable because of.
a) the increased value or,
b) the alterations you have carried out.
If b) then you need to establish which alteration are unacceptable because they might change their minds if they were fully explained with technical details.

 

[chaser]

I am sorry this is not what the thread is about, but just what could be added to a two year old motorhome that would put 45 grand on it?
I am not surprised they are jibbing.

 

[Mick Kennedy]

I don't know if this has been said in this post but to be frank, it is an accepted fact that no matter what you add in the way of equipment to a MH they make little difference to the value of it. When you change or sell the MH take them off and fit to new vehicle or sell them, you will only get a fraction of there value. That said the insurance company has sensed extra money, do not let them cancel the insurance because when you get quotes for renewing insurance one of the questions is ( have you ever had your insurance cancelled or refused) and it will be all on record.

Yes Portland, I understand that - you're right. Same with the earlier comment about the labour costs. I know I couldn't SELL the vehicle for the amount I've spent because of the nature of vehicle sales. But I have no intention of selling it; also even if I did want to sell it, the INSURED value does not translate to being the SALES value to someone else. What I was trying to do for our peace of mind - quite reasonably, I thought - was to insure it for what it was worth to US, should it be stolen or written off, so that we could replace it. If they are prepared to insure a vehicle for £68K for £500 a year, why can't I pay £1000 a year and get more cover? How is the risk any different for the insurance company, given the increased premium? You can insure anything for a given value normally. Hell, people even insure their body parts, but what value do their body parts have to another person? None. But as long as they can pay the premium, that is their choice.

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[Mick Kennedy]

Apart from the fact that you may have spent more on improvements than the Van is worth, you may have massively increased the all up weight for which the chassis is not designed to carry.
i am not an expert, but it’s rather like building a conservatory on your house costing £20,000 and expecting the value if your house to group by the same, it doesn’t happen.

Yes mate, I could understand them knocking it back if we'd overloaded the chassis, but we haven't. Indeed, part of the very purpose of the air suspension was that it gives us an extra 500 kgs payload, so if anything, it's even safer. Also, as I said in the earlier reply to Portland, I'm not kidding myself our vehicle has gone up by the amount we've put into it, but rather I was trying to insure it at an amount that would allow us to replace it if it were stolen or written off. I thought it was a common thing, a normal thing, for insurance companies to have ''agreed'' values or ''new for old'' policies, or whatever they are called. The rub is that you have to pay a higher premium, but that's our choice if it gives us peace of mind.

 

[Gellyneck]

If Devitt are the broker i.e. registered insurance broker,you need to establish whether they are acting on your behalf,or whether they are acting as agent on behalf of the insurance company. They can’t be both.

My understanding is Devitt are the "in-house" broker for C&MC.

....... I'm not kidding myself our vehicle has gone up by the amount we've put into it, but rather I was trying to insure it at an amount that would allow us to replace it if it were stolen or written off. I thought it was a common thing, a normal thing, for insurance companies to have ''agreed'' values or ''new for old'' policies, or whatever they are called. The rub is that you have to pay a higher premium, but that's our choice if it gives us peace of mind.

I'm unaware of any standard motor vehicle policy that will pay out an "agreed" or "new for old" (unless there is a clause stating if there is a total loss within the first x months where they will replace with a new vehicle of the same \ similar model as the original purchase). All insurers will only pay current market value for the vehicle. They will not pay out, say £150k, when the vehicle has a market value of, say £100k, for an additional premium of a few hundred pounds. If they did, you'd have thousands of vehicles getting written off every day so the insured could make a vast "profit" on the vehicle.

 

[Mick Kennedy]

My understanding is Devitt are the "in-house" broker for C&MC.


I'm unaware of any standard motor vehicle policy that will pay out an "agreed" or "new for old" (unless there is a clause stating if there is a total loss within the first x months where they will replace with a new vehicle of the same \ similar model as the original purchase). All insurers will only pay current market value for the vehicle. They will not pay out, say £150k, when the vehicle has a market value of, say £100k, for an additional premium of a few hundred pounds. If they did, you'd have thousands of vehicles getting written off every day so the insured could make a vast "profit" on the vehicle.

Yes, Gellyneck, what you say makes sense if we'd only paid a standard price and then wanted to insure it for miles more than we've paid out - what a scam that would be! But because we can fully demonstrate our outlay, they can see we wouldn't be making a vast profit at all - we'd just be breaking even at best, so there would be no ''profit'' in us making a false claim at all.

 

[TheBig1]

sadly, despite spending 10s of thousands of pounds on accessories, your van is only ever going to be worth "book value". The over all value has not actually increased. So you are trying to over insure a vehicle, a very good reason to cancel insurance

 

[Gellyneck]

Just checked a previous policy I had with Devitt and it was 24 months for new replacement.

In addition, within the policy it does state -
You must tell your insurance adviser immediately to let us know about the following changes:
............
• Any vehicle modifications;

and their action could be -
......................
• your insurer may declare your policy void (treating your policy as if it had never existed),

Yes, Gellyneck, what you say makes sense if we'd only paid a standard price and then wanted to insure it for miles more than we've paid out - what a scam that would be! But because we can fully demonstrate our outlay, they can see we wouldn't be making a vast profit at all - we'd just be breaking even at best, so there would be no ''profit'' in us making a false claim at all.

However, your outlay wouldn't intrisically increase the market value of the vehicle therefore you'd being trying to over insure it.
If I were you I would be contacting Devitt's Customer Satisfaction Manager on 0345 504 0585 however, from what you've noted previously I would cut and run from your current insurer (unless they are prepared to continue cover under "non-modified" terms and conditions for the original market value) and be looking to place elsewhere. Having said that, I reckon you'll potentially have issues with any "standard" insurer offering cover in line with your expectations.

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[chaser]

sadly, despite spending 10s of thousands of pounds on accessories, your van is only ever going to be worth "book value". The over all value has not actually increased. So you are trying to over insure a vehicle, a very good reason to cancel insurance

Presumably the tens of thousands are for the op s benifit not the insurers , they aren't going to get anything out of them, and the actual van they are insuring hasn't gone up in value in others eyes.

 

[chaser]

Just checked a previous policy I had with Devitt and it was 24 months for new replacement.

In addition, within the policy it does state -
You must tell your insurance adviser immediately to let us know about the following changes:
............
• Any vehicle modifications;

and their action could be -
......................
• your insurer may declare your policy void (treating your policy as if it had never existed),


However, your outlay wouldn't intrisically increase the market value of the vehicle therefore you'd being trying to over insure it.
If I were you I would be contacting Devitt's Customer Satisfaction Manager on 0345 504 0585 however, from what you've noted previously I would cut and run from your current insurer (unless they are prepared to continue cover under "non-modified" terms and conditions for the original market value) and be looking to place elsewhere. Having said that, I reckon you'll potentially have issues with any "standard" insurer offering cover in line with your expectations.

That is very true and the fact is you are going to have a job to find any insurer that will insure it for more than a dealer would give you for it.

 

[Pausim]

I can’t believe the CMC has no vans insured for over £70k. I think it is quite possible that they have got jumpy about suspension alterations. This could affect the handling and take it outside the type approval/C of Conformity. Even if the alterations make the vehicle safer, they don’t know this and possibly can’t be bothered to get a technical assessment done.

 

[Vipar]

Hi Mick. I wasn’t being nosey. I thought that if you showed the insurance company how much that you had genuinely spend they might have adjusted your premium to both your satisfaction.
Good luck with all your goodies and hope you have many years to enjoy them. Might just have to under insure it and take it on the chin.
Yes can be some strange comments on here. But your bigger than that. Water off a ducks back and all

PS I’m with “Lifesure “

 

[gus-lopez]

Presumably the tens of thousands are for the op s benifit not the insurers , they aren't going to get anything out of them, and the actual van they are insuring hasn't gone up in value in others eyes.

That is very true and the fact is you are going to have a job to find any insurer that will insure it for more than a dealer would give you for it.

All the op wants is to insure the vehicle for an additional premium so that in the event of a right off they can supply him with another identical motorhome ,same age,same condition similar mileage, etc; COMPLETE with all the same additional extras.
Agreed value insurance is what you want for the event of a total loss.

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[Mick Kennedy]

Hi Mick. I wasn’t being nosey. I thought that if you showed the insurance company how much that you had genuinely spend they might have adjusted your premium to both your satisfaction.
Good luck with all your goodies and hope you have many years to enjoy them. Might just have to under insure it and take it on the chin.
Yes can be some strange comments on here. But your bigger than that. Water off a ducks back and all

PS I’m with “Lifesure “

No worries, Vipar - I didn’t take your comment as nosy, mate. Thanks for the kind words - restores my faith a bit - good on you!

 

[Mick Kennedy]

All the op wants is to insure the vehicle for an additional premium so that in the event of a right off they can supply him with another identical motorhome ,same age,same condition similar mileage, etc; COMPLETE with all the same additional extras.
Agreed value insurance is what you want for the event of a total loss.

You’ve got it, Gus. Cheers, mate.

 

[Gellyneck]

Agreed value insurance is what you want for the event of a total loss.

Any ideas who offers that type of policy?

 

[gus-lopez]

Any ideas who offers that type of policy?

lost touch now but it always used to be readily available on the VW T forums even for self builds with no prblems changing to agreed far higher values on finished job.

 

[DandG5515]

Have you tried Adrian flux as they specialise in modified vehicles?

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[Portland]

Yes Portland, I understand that - you're right. Same with the earlier comment about the labour costs. I know I couldn't SELL the vehicle for the amount I've spent because of the nature of vehicle sales. But I have no intention of selling it; also even if I did want to sell it, the INSURED value does not translate to being the SALES value to someone else. What I was trying to do for our peace of mind - quite reasonably, I thought - was to insure it for what it was worth to US, should it be stolen or written off, so that we could replace it. If they are prepared to insure a vehicle for £68K for £500 a year, why can't I pay £1000 a year and get more cover? How is the risk any different for the insurance company, given the increased premium? You can insure anything for a given value normally. Hell, people even insure their body parts, but what value do their body parts have to another person? None. But as long as they can pay the premium, that is their choice.

Mick, don't think for one second I don't agree with you, I was just saying to be careful about them canceling on you. Perhaps you could take a separate all risks policy with an insurance company?? Unfortunately it takes very little to upset them as I know from my own dealings with them. Good luck enjoy yourselves

 

[Pausim]

Surely your first priority needs to be to find out exactly why they are cancelling it. Once a cancelled or refusal goes on your insurance record you may end up with insurance problems for years to come. You need to head this off first and then start looking around for something that provides the cover you want. If it was just the value they would just decline to increase it, there must be something more serious behind their decision.

 

[RustyRuss]

When I get issues like this and I want to complain I get on the phone and insist I speak to the boss of the organisation. Do not be put off by his or her minions saying “He’s not available” say “I’ll hold then.” I had an 11 month old Ford Maverick 7 seater and the gearbox went west, I hung on until I got the Secretary of the Managing Director of Ford Motor Co on the line, she ordered a new gearbox under warranty whilst I was on the line and got the dealer principle at the Ford dealership to lend me his Cosworth Sierra until the gearbox arrived 4 weeks later from Japan. Be persistent and don’t take no for an answer, threaten them with the ombudsman, the newspapers, moneybox live on Radio 4. If the boss says “No” make sure you get his email address and send him an email saying you are cancelling the policy and make sure to get a read receipt for your email. Have your other policy ready to go in the background at a moment’s notice. I used Advance Insurance in Chippenham, specifically Colin, and they are excellent, I’ve added all sorts of stuff to my MoHo and told them, they even waive the admin fee. Phone number is 01249 461665. I am no relation or have anything other than business dealings with Advance.

Good Luck & Cheers!

Russ

 

[daveinspain]

It doesn´t really help you there in the UK, but I did exactly what you wanted to do back in 2011 here in Spain - albeit on a much smaller scale! We added about 1500 euros (from memory) of extras to our brand new Rapido, and I wanted to make sure that if it was stolen or written off I could get a van with the same extras. The insurance company quoted us a small increase in premium after I sent them copies of the receipts, which we were happy to accept. Whether they would have paid out is another matter, but it gave us peace of mind.
If they can do it here, I don´t see why they cant do it over there.

 

[olley]

Can't help with the insurance but always find it very interesting when people add extras to their motorhomes, especially if they add pics and details of why the chose what they did.
Over the years I have spent money on mine, some sensibly some not. Latest after 15 years of ownership is rear airbags at around £1100, its your money spend it how you wish.

I admit if you put a list on here some would say why? Others you could have got it cheaper but in the main people like me would just be interested in what toys you got for your money, you can't have too many toys.

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