Insulation comparison: coachbuilt, PVC, campervan?

[Pocket Rocket]

We have previously owned a coachbuilt motorhome (sadly had to sell due to unexpected health issues). We have really missed “motorhome life” so are now considering getting a smaller vehicle - either a PVC or a VW LWB campervan.

We have some concerns about insulation (for hot / cold weather, but also external noise eg roads). Our previous motorhome had “Grade 3” insulation and even when it was over 30 degrees outside it would stay cooler in the van.

We’ve looked at a few reputable VW converters, and although they state insulation, there’s still a lot of “metal body work” eg round edges of doors etc.
Does anyone have any experience of the insulation levels in PVC’s and campervans?

I’m not sure if we’re looking for a moon on a stick! A well made, well insulated small vehicle for tiny alpine roads and Welsh lanes

 

[davidroxburgh]

Hi - look at my Westfalia Columbus in classified. We have done Spanish and Welsh hills and lanes. Westfalia have fantastic insulation and are exceedingly well converted. MMM awarded the model “Van of the Year”.

If like many you are cautious about over reliance on LPG then note the fridge is Compressor, the heating is diesel heating, and there is underfloor heating also. The double glazing is tinted which both keeps heat down and gives privacy.

The Funster Simon Select has the van and the ad in classifies gives the link. There are many aspects of the van that would meet your aims. If you prefer I am happy to answer any aspects by PM?

Whatever you decide I hope you get what suits you! David

 

[carolyn]

We have an IH PVC and apparently that has level 2 insulation. Consort PVCs have level 3 which is better.

 

[TrudeandDall]

We ran a Bilbos conversion on a Transporter for 10 years. The insulation was frankly rubbish, with a force ten blowing into the van via the fridge vents. This was something that I sorted out double quick time, and they may have improved since ours was converted.
We now have a German conversion on a Ducato. The insulation is much better, but doubtful if it is up to A class or coach built standard - after all it is a converted tin box. One thing to consider is that VW type vans mostly have single car type glass for the windows - these windows are really bad at insulation and when compared to the double glazed windows on our larger PVC, the condensation in winter is terrible,

 

[jezport]

The secret is that PVCs are smaller so heat faster.

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[Insider]

We have a 2016 Autocruise Forte that is a PVC. While it is insulated I don't think it is a great job as anywhere you look you'll see both insulation and lots of bare metal. However with the Truma heating system there is no problem keeping it very comfortable inside and the biggest challenge is condensation rather than keeping it warm. I wouldn't say our van would work for skiing in the Alps but is fine for all 4 seasons in the British Isles and 3 out of 4 seasons in Europe.

 

[funflair]

The secret is that PVCs are smaller so heat faster.

Yes but if the insulation is not very good it will just cool down again as quick as it warms up.

 

[Lenny HB]

A friend has a Malibu which is a fairly up market PVC, he is looking at ways to better insulate it, starting with the rear doors as it's cold around the back end.

 

[Old Gibber]

I have an Autotrail PVC, and in winter it is not very warm. The biggest problem seems to be around the two rooflights and the bathroom vent. The bathroom vent is permanently open, and having made a cover which can be rotated to close or open the vent makes a huge difference in the bathroom. As for the two rooflights, the air gap around these is ridiculous. Its between 10 and 15mm all round them. I know there needs to be ventilation through the van, but the warm air heating is simply pumped straight out of these. I am progressively adding more foam insulation to fill this gap in some places to reduce this ventilation to a reasonable level.

 

[DJIT]

There are differences in insulation materials and thickness - but most converters will tell you what they use and why, and some might offer you alternatives if you want more insulation.

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[lorger]

A lot will depend on what you’ve had and what you get, our first van was an Elddis and our 3rd one a PVC Possl (Globecar) I thought the were about the same. However our new van is a Knaus with double floor and the comparison to the other two is miles better in my opinion, once up at temperature it holds it a lot longer.

 

[CRD]

A friend has a Malibu which is a fairly up market PVC, he is looking at ways to better insulate it, starting with the rear doors as it's cold around the back end.

We’ve just sold our Malibu PVC, and one of the reasons is that the insulation wasn’t that great. When it was cold just after Christmas, the Truma heating could only just keep up on EHU. First thing In the morning, it was very cold in the van.

When powered by diesel, the Truma warmed the van well, but it still started to get chilly again as soon as the heating was off. We want to go skiing in a van, and the Malibu wouldn’t have coped well.

We’ve opted for a coach built instead with a double floor and the excellent Alde heating, which should be fine in the depths of winter.

 

[Brains]

Limit yourself to 'Winterised' German vans.
Hymer would be a good place to start, but there are several others

 

[Pocket Rocket]

Thanks all - really useful information.

We previously had a Chausson with grade 3 insulation - rarely used the heating, but most of all we found it kept it cool inside despite a French heatwave over 40 degrees!

We’re a bit concerned that we might feel like we’re cooking in a hot tin car if we have a campervan or PVC without adequate insulation. But love the smaller size of these vehicles

 

[rwg]

On our PVC (Auto Trail built) the insulation is patchy. If you were feeling generous you'd say that it was put in where it's easy to put in and not where it isn't. I've been adding more insulation to the rear doors over the last few days - the original insulation covered about 25% of the metalwork of the rear doors - just where it was easy to stick a bit of foam in through the gaps in the metalwork (see below). I think you would need to talk to the converter for a PVC or campervan to check what insulation they put in - I'm sure it's possible to do it properly, but from experience it takes plenty of time to get good coverage into the awkward recesses in the doors and other places.

If you look up what 'grade 3' insulation means, it's a bit of a dodge - it doesn't check how much insulation there is, just whether the heating can bring the van back up to temperature from -15C.

cheers,

Robin

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[ontheroadagain]

I’m not sure if we’re looking for a moon on a stick! A well made, well insulated small vehicle for tiny alpine roads and Welsh lanes

There are a number of narrow coachbuilt motorhomes available from Adria, Carthago, Rapido etc. Our Adria Compact is only 2.12m wide which is only slightly wider than a Ducato van.

 

[Waveski]

I have a 5.4 m Vantage Med. No problem using it at -5C. Heats up fast and no noticeable cold spots. Also use the van in a serious heat wave in France, it got hot in the sun but cooled easy by opening the sliding door and the rear doors. No problem.

 

[DBK]

We have previously owned a coachbuilt motorhome (sadly had to sell due to unexpected health issues). We have really missed “motorhome life” so are now considering getting a smaller vehicle - either a PVC or a VW LWB campervan.

We have some concerns about insulation (for hot / cold weather, but also external noise eg roads). Our previous motorhome had “Grade 3” insulation and even when it was over 30 degrees outside it would stay cooler in the van.

We’ve looked at a few reputable VW converters, and although they state insulation, there’s still a lot of “metal body work” eg round edges of doors etc.
Does anyone have any experience of the insulation levels in PVC’s and campervans?

I’m not sure if we’re looking for a moon on a stick! A well made, well insulated small vehicle for tiny alpine roads and Welsh lanes

If you want to use the vehicle for say skiing trips then you need something winterised with a double floor. For anything else a PVC will suffice, expect cold spots but in our case the diesel heater can turn the interior into a sauna if required. I think the main issue isn't cold but high temperatures in summer because cold can be corrected by turning the heating on.

Good internal screens with an aluminum finish on the outside will help plus rooflights you can safely open a bit or are permanently open to some extent like some bathroom rooflights. I would also consider the colour of the vehicle - dark colours are heat magnets!

 

[TrudeandDall]

Dark colours are definitely heat magnets! When we were looking for a van during the summer it was high 20's. There were lots of grey vans, which were very hot to touch, but a good old school white one was cool. I agree that if a pvc gets hot in the sun then the ability to open the sliding and rear doors together to let in a draught is a real bonus......

 

[jezport]

Yes but if the insulation is not very good it will just cool down again as quick as it warms up.

Insulation can be good but the metal body will always case a cold bridge. We are happy running heating more for the benefits of a PVC.
In summer we love the big doors and have better options for ventilation than a coach built.

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[Brize]

You are never going to get a PVC that has the same level of insulation as a coachbuilt or A Class. Metal transfers cold more effectively, and to put more insulation in would just take up more room in an already smaller space. As others have said, its all a trade off.

However, there are things that you can do to help. I took off the panelling on the rear doors and sliding door, and put in much more insulation (dacron), stuffing it into the crevices that the manufacturers ignore, and it all helps. When selecting a PVC, look at the heating system - what it is rated at, and most importantly, where the outlets are so that you have even heating throughout the van, and not just in one area. Do you intend to go off grid a lot, or rely on EHU's? This will dictate what sort of heating you may be looking for. With EHU's, you can always carry a small supplementary electrical heater to provide a boost.

Lot's of questions!

 

[VXman]

All this talk of Grade 2. Grade 3 etc. I had never heard of classes of insulation before so I looked up my Burstner...

They do talk crap these companies! Can I get a refund?

 

[Riverbankannie]

We have an IH PVC and apparently that has level 2 insulation. Consort PVCs have level 3 which is better.

We spent some time recently putting in what insulation we could into the doors of ours. None added by IH as the original Fiat material (vapour barrier?) has to be cut away to gain access to the internals. You also have to dismantle the remis blinds, the cab door internal handle assembly and the controls on them. Not sure how much we have gained as you cannot just stuff loose insulation in due to the windows having to use the space too. The sliding door tricky as we didn’t want to dismantle the sink unit that covers part of the door inside.
We think we have at least made the doors less “tinny” when closing and a little quieter on the road.

 

[carolyn]

We spent some time recently putting in what insulation we could into the doors of ours. None added by IH as the original Fiat material (vapour barrier?) has to be cut away to gain access to the internals. You also have to dismantle the remis blinds, the cab door internal handle assembly and the controls on them. Not sure how much we have gained as you cannot just stuff loose insulation in due to the windows having to use the space too. The sliding door tricky as we didn’t want to dismantle the sink unit that covers part of the door inside.
We think we have at least made the doors less “tinny” when closing and a little quieter on the road.

As you can imagine Annie , none of these are things we would dream of doing. We would never succeed in putting it back together again. As soon as we hear someone start a sentence to do with anything DIY related with “it’s really easy” we know it’s not for us. It’s only easy if you’re practical and we’re not. We’ve heard John do this a few times!

 

[CRD]

When selecting a PVC, look at the heating system - what it is rated at, and most importantly, where the outlets are so that you have even heating throughout the van, and not just in one area.

Also look at where the boiler is located in the van.

In our Malibu, it was under one of the fixed beds so when the boiler was on, that bed got so warm that we had to turn the heating off at night, Also when the boiler turned on and off, it made a noise right under that bed.

This was another reason why we sold our Malibu PVC recently.

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[gus-lopez]

A friend has a Malibu which is a fairly up market PVC, he is looking at ways to better insulate it, starting with the rear doors as it's cold around the back end.

That is because , as photo below, they only insulate the easy bits which are aroung 10% leaving all the box voids uninsulated. I stripped & filled all the voids in my rear doors . all the voids between existing external panels & internal panels with sheeps wool which is easy to use for infilling box sections from below & upwards. The cab doors ,which never get any insulation , I used the aluminium as below stuck on to keep well clear of the electric window glass .
My over cab , which wasn't used I insulated with the ali stuff but it requires at least another layer for when it is in the sun.

Yes just the easy bits done. All the box sections need filling to make the rear doors/side door well insulated

 

[SpeedyDux]

My Rapido PVC is quite throughly insulated by the factory including rear and side doors according to the build sheet that came with it. I haven't taken the door cards off to check. Condensation is minimal.

I still regard it as a 3 seasons van and don't use it for winter trips. Even though the diesel Truma heats it up quickly and the loo compartment becomes like a sauna. I use a Silver Screen on the outside of the cab in cold weather. Don't bother with those interior screens with suction cups. Even the Remis blinds on their own can be more effective.

It does heat up in full sun, so when the outside temperature reaches 30C plus I try to find a shady pitch under trees. Job done! Rolling out the Fiamma awning on the sunny side makes a huge difference if there is no other shade. Being a PVC you can throw open the rear and side doors for a rapid air change when you return to a hot van. That also makes a big difference. The (optional) sliding insect screen for the side door is well worth having.

 

[Pocket Rocket]

Thanks all again for such useful information.

SpeedyDux - could you tell me which Rapido PVC you have? It sounds like it has both insulation but also a sliding insect door (critical as I’m a bit of a midge / fly magnet )

 

[SpeedyDux]

Thanks all again for such useful information.

SpeedyDux - could you tell me which Rapido PVC you have? It sounds like it has both insulation but also a sliding insect door (critical as I’m a bit of a midge / fly magnet )

Mine is the V43 5.4m van. No longer in production, because Rapido has trimmed the range to just 3 Van models, though the sister brand called Dreamer does I think have one in the 5.4m size. In Fance these insect screens are often standard even on budget models but in the UK they always cost extra.

 

[rwg]

Yes just the easy bits done. All the box sections need filling to make the rear doors/side door well insulated

I have done one rear door now with Dodo Pro self-adhesive foam stuck to the inside of the metal and then the voids filled with dacron. Took me about four hours as it's really fiddly cutting the self-adhesive foam to size and getting it into all (most of) the voids. I can understand why the converters don't go to that length. It has made a massive difference in terms of noise levels - that door shuts with a solid thump and no rattles.

As someone else mentioned above, the key with a PVC in hot weather is that you can get a breeze running through with the side and rear doors open. It will get hot sat in the sun when locked up, but cools quickly.

cheers,

Robin