Ins and Outs of Replacing Ignition Barrel and Immobiliser in Spain in Van with Sigma System

[Lizbiebrowne]

From answers I had from a couple of recent posts it seems likely I have a intermittent fault with the key barrel on my Hymer Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD (2003 vintage) that causing both a failure of the immobiliser ring to recognise the key and a failure of the barrel’s contacts to start the starter motor. I’ve also had the engine stop a couple of times whilst underway which I think could also be part of the same problem.

I’m on holiday in Spain at the moment and not planning to return to the UK until the end of November so I’m thinking about getting it fixed over here. One funster has changed the key barrel and left the immobiliser ring in place with the original key taped to it, but I have the immobiliser problem too. How much of a job is it the change both the barrel and the immobiliser ring and presumably some sort of ECU work to code in the new keys? A job for a Fiat garage here in the Alicante region?

I’ve also the Sigma security system on the van – does that add any additional complications?

L

Thread 'Fiat 😡'

Oct 12, 2024

Over the last few days, meandering through Spain, I’ve started to get the yellow padlock/key light illuminating intermittently on the dash and the engine turning over but not starting. Same with both sets of keys.

My manual says there’s a code to start the engine in an emergency but I don’t have it (and it says they don’t give it out in the UK anyway). It does give a telephone number to call but it’s 20 years old and doesn’t work. Into the Fiat website and fill out a request form detailing the problem and rather encouragingly get an email back quite quickly asking for a copy of my...

• Lizbiebrowne
• Replies: 17
• Forum: Fiat

• 
• 

Post in thread 'More Fiat starting woes'

Oct 18, 2024

Having had similar problems in the past on my last 2.8jtd I suggest it may be the ignition barrel itself. I bought a new barrel with keys easy to change once you remove the headless bolts. I then taped the original key to the security sensor ring & tucked it under the dash. No more problems after that.

That might work but presumably it removes the immobiliser protection. My NFU insurance specifically states a minimum requirement of a Cat 2 immobiliser for theft cover and I suspect most insurance companies would consider it to be an unauthorised modification.

• Pausim

 

[Masman]

I have a 2004 fiat with the sigma alarm imobaliser. I had the same problem with the fiat side of the immobiliser. I changed all the batteries in the remotes.Was still the same.Took it to local electronics co who plugged into to odb.Couldnt find the fault. We changed the new batteries for some more new batteries. Cured the problem. So just check the batteries in your fobs are as new.

 

[gus-lopez]

Changing the ignition switch the bolts are the "shear off " type which usually means that once in place as you tighten them the head shears off for security reasons.You need a disc cutter to remove existing bolts. some of the Fiat keys had a "red" security key for programming.If it is that type the cost at a garage could well be very expensive.

 

[Lizbiebrowne]

I have a 2004 fiat with the sigma alarm imobaliser. I had the same problem with the fiat side of the immobiliser. I changed all the batteries in the remotes.Was still the same.Took it to local electronics co who plugged into to odb.Couldnt find the fault. We changed the new batteries for some more new batteries. Cured the problem. So just check the batteries in your fobs are as new.

I never use the fob which I assumed just activates the intruder alarm. I have to use the keypad for entering the code before I can start the engine though although this doesn’t involve using the remote. Is your setup similar to this?

I was wondering whether having the Sigma system installed would add any complications to changing the key barrel?

 

[Lizbiebrowne]

Changing the ignition switch the bolts are the "shear off " type which usually means that once in place as you tighten them the head shears off for security reasons.You need a disc cutter to remove existing bolts. some of the Fiat keys had a "red" security key for programming.If it is that type the cost at a garage could well be very expensive.

As far as I’m aware there’s no red security key, the manual mentions a “Code Card” which I don’t have but Fiat tell me there dealers do. But if fitting a new barrel with new keys I’m not sure how important these codes would be.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[1967bowesj]

You could very well have two or even 3 issues, the key isnt turning enough to make the starter circuit, the immobilisor ring isnt talking to the key, or the sigma side might be not completing the circuit. You said you have had engine cut out a couple if times? The key or immobilisor ring wont cause that, they only stop it from starting but the sigma will probably be wired to the stop solinoid on fuel pump so id be more inclined to check that side. The starting could be checked as gus-lopez said in another thread by using a wire.

 

[bobandjanie]

Have you got another key you could try, our old car one key was quick the other took a minute or so to read the code. Bob.

 

[gus-lopez]

If you bought a new barrel with two keys they can be 'chipped' to the same as the original keys at any decent key coding shop. A plain key cut & scanned & new chip fitted was about 60€ when I had the last one done.That included programming to other key & van
If you have a key with 'remote locking ' buttons on it that the blade alone can be changed last one I paid 37# for the new blade but it would cost extra as that newly cut one would have to be programmed to the van for the new ignition barrel.

 

[Lizbiebrowne]

You could very well have two or even 3 issues, the key isnt turning enough to make the starter circuit, the immobilisor ring isnt talking to the key, or the sigma side might be not completing the circuit. You said you have had engine cut out a couple if times? The key or immobilisor ring wont cause that, they only stop it from starting but the sigma will probably be wired to the stop solinoid on fuel pump so id be more inclined to check that side. The starting could be checked as gus-lopez said in another thread by using a wire.

Could you point me in the direction of that thread please. I’ve searched but can’t find it.

 

[Lizbiebrowne]

You could very well have two or even 3 issues, the key isnt turning enough to make the starter circuit, the immobilisor ring isnt talking to the key, or the sigma side might be not completing the circuit. You said you have had engine cut out a couple if times? The key or immobilisor ring wont cause that, they only stop it from starting but the sigma will probably be wired to the stop solinoid on fuel pump so id be more inclined to check that side. The starting could be checked as gus-lopez said in another thread by using a wire.

Oops, apologies - just found it!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[1967bowesj]

Oops, apologies - just found it!

Lol, was going to say its one of yours.
Check the sigma is working or you could be changing things and no further forward.
You used to be able to bypass those keypad lock things that fiat/peugeot used to fit as they failed from time to time. Not sure on the newer ones.

 

[Masman]

I never use the fob which I assumed just activates the intruder alarm. I have to use the keypad for entering the code before I can start the engine though although this doesn’t involve using the remote. Is your setup similar to this?

I was wondering whether having the Sigma system installed would add any complications to changing the key barrel?

I have the key pad.But It is only used if fobs don't work. Mine locks the doors and sets the alarm and imobaliser. Is the orange padlock on dash going out when you start up Then your Fiat key should be working.If it is then it could be the sigma imobaliser that is at fault.

 

[Sleeveless]

Will it crank over or not when this occurs ? The key blade and barrel are purely mechanical components , changing these parts won't make a difference to the electronic issue you have affecting both keys. The electrical part of the ignition switch could be a problem if the engine won't even crank over though . Although the Sigma alarm adds an additional relay to immobilise the starter circuit (when alarm is active) this shouldn't prevent the ignition being turned on ( which energises the transponder ring, detects the presence of the correct key causing the padlock light to extinguish) . You need to find someone with the appropriate diagnostic tool / software to avoid fitting multiple parts that won't resolve the problem, specifically looking for the stored fault code U1600. Maybe for now try removing the black transponder ring ( it just clips on ) and taping it directly to one of your 2 keys . Obviously don't leave it like this when you leave the vehicle unattended . Battery voltage can cause problems with these systems as they are voltage sensitive , so check that also.

 

[Lizbiebrowne]

Will it crank over or not when this occurs ? The key blade and barrel are purely mechanical components , changing these parts won't make a difference to the electronic issue you have affecting both keys. The electrical part of the ignition switch could be a problem if the engine won't even crank over though . Although the Sigma alarm adds an additional relay to immobilise the starter circuit (when alarm is active) this shouldn't prevent the ignition being turned on ( which energises the transponder ring, detects the presence of the correct key causing the padlock light to extinguish) . You need to find someone with the appropriate diagnostic tool / software to avoid fitting multiple parts that won't resolve the problem, specifically looking for the stored fault code U1600. Maybe for now try removing the black transponder ring ( it just clips on ) and taping it directly to one of your 2 keys . Obviously don't leave it like this when you leave the vehicle unattended . Battery voltage can cause problems with these systems as they are voltage sensitive , so check that also.

Sometimes I get the yellow key/lock yellow light on the dash and the engine will crank over but not start; at other times this light goes out soon after turning on the ignition but the engine will not crank over. The engine will not crank over if I enter an incorrect code on the Sigma keypad but I get confirmation that I have entered the correct code when the red LED on the keypad remains solid after entering the last digit and still the engine will not crank over when I turn the key.

 

[Sleeveless]

The Sigma immobiliser relay is normally installed in the starter actuation cable (normally brown/black) coming off the back of the ignition switch , remove the trim around the column and you'll probably see it. I would start by bridging this relay's terminals to close the circuit and eliminate it as a potential problem . The padlock light is probably a separate issue caused by the manufacturers built in immobiliser .

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}