Impact of DEFRA Rules on Jasmin Camping Site

[Jimbohorlicks]

Can't you grant " temporary " membership to Joe public that wants to stop over or just add a £5 for a weekend membership?

 

[Just smiffy]

Why would anyone buy a new motorhome in Britain now. I will keep taking my battered old left hooker abroad until it falls to pieces then hang my spurs up I think.

This affects us as more people will now go abroad so will make it more difficult for us to find those nice free park-ups…

 

[Emmit]

If you can only exempt for your own members, it means that the big clubs will hoover up all the CL's

Let's say you have a bit of land and want a CL. You write to a couple of organisations, the MCC and the CAMC

The MCC has 4,500 members the CAMC has 200,000. As the landowner wanting as many visitors as possible, who are you going to choose?

Can't speak for CAMC but 11yrs ago me and Mrs Emmit inspected the C.S's registered with the CCC in the area of Cornwall plus North Devon.
That year there were 96 C.S's in that area.

This year I am advised by Mary that there are less than half remaining.

Many of the former sites have been bought and reverted to boutique smallholdings.

 

[westhamman]

The 2 major clubs as far as I'm aware certify 5 van sites cl's and cs's, you are supposed to be members of the clubs to use those sites.Jim can certify a site for anybody public or member, if I was manager at the 2 major clubs I would be arguing for a level playing field so wouldn't blame them if they were involved in change. I have stayed at Jasmin a few times and have booked again for September so would miss it,but would imagine a entrepreneur like Jim could find a work around although he would get to eat the plumbs himself.

 

[chaser]

Most of this goes over my head… so why can’t you have a little campsite like so many other farmers and other landowners have…

You can't have one without planning permission or something like Jim's exemption.
That's what I have said many times when people have asked why I don't have a camp site.
Rather not have the hassle of anything to do with councils.

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[chaser]

The farming part is covered by the F in DEFRA, what about the E and the RA? Otherwise they'd be called DF!

Ian

It used to be maff , ministry of fisheries and food.
End of. Now it's everything but.

 

[Stoosal]

If

Jim​

is prepared to write a letter outlining the benefits of current position I would be happy to forward to local MP etc. If other members would do same it would surely be quite a few MPs that would be made aware.​

The systems in place for motorhomes appears to need a review.​

 

[Just smiffy]

You can't have one without planning permission or something like Jim's exemption.
That's what I have said many times when people have asked why I don't have a camp site.
Rather not have the hassle of anything to do with councils.

Rather have the hassle with the council then the paying guests…

 

[Puddleduck]

The farming part is covered by the F in DEFRA, what about the E and the RA? Otherwise they'd be called DF!

Ian

Possibly Department for the Environment, Food/ Farming and Rural Affairs but that is a guess.

 

[Jim]

if I was manager at the 2 major clubs I would be arguing for a level playing field so wouldn't blame them if they were involved in change.

Well the playing field has been level for 10 years, you can choose whether you want it to be members only and the big clubs chose members only. Now we are forced to be members only, that's not levelling the playing field.

This will mean that lots of smaller clubs like the MCC will not be chosen by landowners, they'll go to the bigger clubs to get more business, that will only benefit the big clubs membership, and if you are not a member you'll have less choice.

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[L' Hobo]

Can't speak for CAMC but 11yrs ago me and Mrs Emmit inspected the C.S's registered with the CCC in the area of Cornwall plus North Devon.
That year there were 96 C.S's in that area.

This year I am advised by Mary that there are less than half remaining.

Many of the former sites have been bought and reverted to boutique smallholdings.

What's a 'Boutique Smallholding' and did I have one in Surrey?

 

[Emmit]

What's a 'Boutique Smallholding' and did I have one in Surrey?

Is there anybody still living in Surrey???

Most of them seem to be down at the Pointy End, riding horses, walking dogs and generally doing a Margo with their attempt at 'The good life'

 

[bigtwin]

Possibly Department for the Environment, Food/ Farming and Rural Affairs but that is a guess.

I wasn’t asking what they stood for, I was asking Chaser what about the other elements of their brief if he was suggesting that DEFRA should be focussing only on farming.

Ian

 

[chaser]

I wasn’t asking what they stood for, I was asking Chaser what about the other elements of their brief if he was suggesting that DEFRA should be focussing only on farming.

Ian

That was my point it used to be for farming and fisheries now it's just green stuff, anything to push farmers out of business.
Ask if you want some solar panels and you won't have any problems.

 

[GJH]

I first learned of differences of opinion over the interpretation of the rules in April 2014 and had lengthy correspondence with Natural England (and, consequently lawyers within Defra) over the following months. I know that the MCC undertook similar correspondence at the time, but in parallel.
The upshot (see the thread https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/use-of-cls-css-by-non-members.90497/) was that non-members could use certificated sites. This was a reversal of the previous position.
I was contacted by Andy Clarke (UKMotorhomes.net) in May last year for a copy of the correspondence, which I was happy to give him. As far as I know, Andy was going to argue for retention of the ruling from 2014 but it appears that the argument was unsuccessful.
I still have copies of the files which I sent to Andy and would be happy to send them to anyone if they intend arguing against the new ruling.

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[Barryh]

That was my point it used to be for farming and fisheries now it's just green stuff, anything to push farmers out of business.
Ask if you want some solar panels and you won't have any problems.

DEFRA certainly used to support farmers. A farmer down the road from our site got a grant of over £250,000 to diversify and develop a campsite. We had to borrow our development money from Barclays at 7.5 %.

 

[L' Hobo]

Is there anybody still living in Surrey???

Most of them seem to be down at the Pointy End, riding horses, walking dogs and generally doing a Margo with their attempt at 'The good life'

I loved my little piece of Surrey.
A small part of an original large farm that backed down to the flood meadows of the River Mole, but made the mistake of selling my property to generate temporary extra cash for the business.

Like most 'ordinary' people, once you have left, it's nearly impossible to afford to return!

House prices move up so fast, it's ridiculous!

The village, near Esher, where I bought in early 1980's, had an average house price between £35-50,000.
Now ALL houses, however small, are priced at £500,000+

 

[Red Sonja]

Jim Is it possible to have a temporary membership lasting for the length of the stay. Say 50p per night?

 

[Terry]

Jim what exemption do pubs have that allows overnight stays?
Will this mean the end of pub stopovers ? Do pubs need exemptions or do they simply not bother.
Since you can join MHF and become a read only member what stopping you saying to public that you must join fun to stay on your site. As I read, it does not mention paying members so free membership would comply with DEFRA. I’m sure lots of pub stops have no memberships of any kind. Lots have a lot more than five vans staying overnight.

 

[rb62]

Possibly Department for the Environment, Food/ Farming and Rural Affairs but that is a guess.

Daft as it sounds farming doesn't come into the wording anymore!

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[L' Hobo]

Jim what exemption do pubs have that allows overnight stays?
Will this mean the end of pub stopovers ? Do pubs need exemptions or do they simply not bother.
Since you can join MHF and become a read only member what stopping you saying to public that you must join fun to stay on your site. As I read, it does not mention paying members so free membership would comply with DEFRA. I’m sure lots of pub stops have no memberships of any kind. Lots have a lot more than five vans staying overnight.

PERHAPS,as the Pub carpark is private land, and they do not charge, it's a bit like inviting another Funsters to park in your driveway so have no need for permission?

 

[Terry]

PERHAPS,as the Pub carpark is private land, and they do not charge, it's a bit like inviting another Funsters to park in your driveway so have no need for permission?

I think as a business things may be a little different to what your saying Owen. Since I don’t know the answers I asked the questions? Pubs around here seem to do what they like, probably without any permits /permissions or exemptions. We even have small campsite that have been refused 5 CL status due to unsafe entrance and still opened up using the unsafe entrance!

 

[hja]

I may be misunderstanding what exemption actually means but, I thought some of the C&MHC & CCC sites were open to both members and non-members but at a different price range.

IF exempt means members ONLY allowed on site, how can that happen?

CAMC & CCC have their Club sites which are "full fat" camp sites with all the necessary planning permission etc. The Clubs can restrict those to their members or open up to non members (often at higher price). Sometimes the planning permission requires them to be open to all. Their CLs and CSs all come under the exemption "rules" and both CAMC & CCC have decided that they will be members only.

 

[chippie]

I'm in an owners club and at our AGM we had to vote to change the wording of our membership too include caravans as well or nature england we're saying they would revoke the clubs exemption cerificate although this manufacturer does not make caravans, this was explained to them but they were not budging so the wording has been altered to comply....sheer madness !!!

 

[Jim]

PERHAPS,as the Pub carpark is private land, and they do not charge, it's a bit like inviting another Funsters to park in your driveway so have no need for permission?

Payment doesn't come into it, if people are regularly sleeping in vans on your premises you'll need planning permission for a campsite. Or you can get a club to exempt you from planning.

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[nicholsong]

It might be an idea to publish this change to Local Authorities which have policies of restricting parking and promoting campsites as a viable alternative for MH parking.

Those authorities should in principle be against this change, on the basis that it reduces the available pitches in their area, thus encouraging off-site parking.

 

[Ejaydee]

Daft as it sounds farming doesn't come into the wording anymore!

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Nor does fishing, but Defra still has its sticky fingers all over that industry, or what is left of it.

 

[Grey Fox]

As I understand it, the law has not changed only the guidance/interpretation from Natural England, as such they are in effect saying that it has never been legal for clubs to allow non members to use their sites. This perhaps means that in effect you have been running a campsite without planning permission and in breach of planning regulations, if 10 years have passed without enforcement action you are entitled to a “certificate of lawful use” and can carry on as you have always done. Would need some research but seems a logical argument to me.

 

[L' Hobo]

Payment doesn't come into it, if people are regularly sleeping in vans on your premises you'll need planning permission for a campsite. Or you can get a club to exempt you from planning.

So, for example, are we saying, that when Tam stayed for a few weeks at Just smiffy before he left for Morocco, Gary should have put in planning permission for a campsite or exemption?

Now that's an idea Gary, (if you haven't already got it) how about getting permission from Jim and we could all come and visit you in your tourist hot spot?

That should keep you out of mischief, earn you a few bob, and we could housesit while your away.

What do you reckon?

 

[Terry]

So, for example, are we saying, that when Tam stayed for a few weeks at Just smiffy before he left for Morocco, Gary should have put in planning permission for a campsite or exemption?

Now that's an idea Gary, (if you haven't already got it) how about getting permission from Jim and we could all come and visit you in your tourist hot spot?

That should keep you out of mischief, earn you a few bob, and we could housesit while your away.

What do you reckon?

Gary would have no chance of PP without handing big brown envelopes to planning councillors He may need a bigger one for Jim to give him a exemption

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