If Aires don’t allow camping behaviour…

[Heebson]

Hi folks.
We’re a year into motorhoming and have used a mix of sites and off-grid - both aire types and park-ups. All within the UK.

We’re planning to go abroad this year - France in May and Netherlands in August - so I’ve been devouring lots of threads & blogs to get prepped - but one thing kinda puzzles me.

It’s made clear that when staying on Aires that ‘camping behaviour’ is banned - usually described as winding out the awning, getting chairs out or bbq-ing. Fair enough - but what do folks actually do? I’m thinking here that hopefully the weather’s nice, so ok, we cook in the van, but we really would like to sit outside to eat - even with a plate in the lap - or even just have a drink at the end of the day. Being confined to the van doesn’t sound that nice.

So just wondered what the practical reality is. How do people cope or work around it (Not meaning ‘just do it anyway’)?

I know the easy answer is ‘use sites’, but the unplanned nature of leveraging Aires really appeals. Hope this makes sense.

Thnx,
Heeb

 

[Windy66]

The law in Spain particularly refers to parking but camping is not allowed in certain spots. Exhibiting camping aspects would be breaking the law therefore. Where the signs say so.
Like others say, if the bbq isn’t going to smoke someone out next door, the awning isn’t encroaching and noise is not rudely excessive when eating outside, then I’d say it’s ok to do.
I’ve seen many times this year, if the signs are not adhered to, the Police simply clear everyone off. Simple solution.
Otherwise they leave us alone.

 

[Peregrinator]

Always read the signs, they are there for a reason, rules are about making sure you are not ‘camping’ but ‘parking’, and so the traditional aspects of camping are not allowed. In reality most people do use chairs or hang a bit of washing out, but it’s done discreetly and always packed away overnight, If you have tables and chairs out, a lot of villagers etc don't like it, there have been some Motorhomers out there that have destroyed it for others.

 

[Cie]

Hi folks.
We’re a year into motorhoming and have used a mix of sites and off-grid - both aire types and park-ups. All within the UK.

We’re planning to go abroad this year - France in May and Netherlands in August - so I’ve been devouring lots of threads & blogs to get prepped - but one thing kinda puzzles me.

It’s made clear that when staying on Aires that ‘camping behaviour’ is banned - usually described as winding out the awning, getting chairs out or bbq-ing. Fair enough - but what do folks actually do? I’m thinking here that hopefully the weather’s nice, so ok, we cook in the van, but we really would like to sit outside to eat - even with a plate in the lap - or even just have a drink at the end of the day. Being confined to the van doesn’t sound that nice.

So just wondered what the practical reality is. How do people cope or work around it (Not meaning ‘just do it anyway’)?

I know the easy answer is ‘use sites’, but the unplanned nature of leveraging Aires really appeals. Hope this makes sense.

Thnx,
Heeb

We own an Aire in Scotland (thanks to help from CAMpRA and Jim from Motorhomefun as he enables us to get the certificate required)

The no camping behaviour at Aires is there for two main reasons:
1) spacing and fire risk. A campsite will have 6m between pitches to allow for an awning to be out and there still being 3m between combustibles. An Aire is overnight parking so the spaces between bays are 3-4m minimum, again to meet the 3m between combustibles fire requirements, but if you then put out an awning you are breaking this safety distance. Similarly BBQs in this space are not allowed as the vans are closer so it’s a fire hazard.
2) Many Aires are in public spaces, community run perhaps, pub car parks etc. and so sometimes having tables and chairs out which may be taking up other parking spaces or blocking pavements which is poor etiquette- I’m sure no one here would do this inconsiderately but equally I’m sure many of you will have seen inappropriate examples of this on your travels.

The main intention behind an Aire is a place to stopover for a night or two, to help the local area with your tourist spends and for you to tour easily and affordably rather than be restricted by minimum night stays or locations on far out of town sites.

The UK Aires that have opened are in a wide diversity of settings and you will find each has different facilities and some may allow more flexibility than others. For example at our Aire we have set up two designated seating areas, away from the vans, where you are welcome to sit out and eat.

I think the key thing to remember is that Aires are stopovers not campsites, and our pricing reflects this (we charge just £5 a night per van and this is to try to cover our costs of insurance, maintenance etc and our time), but provide the essential facilities like water & waste (our toilet waste is available for £5 a use - again the charge here is not for profit but to cover the disposal we have to pay for waste - but as a drop in service too which many campsites can’t allow under their insurance and layout limitations)

I hope you enjoy your trip abroad. I’m sure you’ll find many lovely Aires where a short walk will take you to a beach or local tavern to sit and enjoy a meal

Cecilia
Glenbuchty Stopover Fraserburgh
www.GlenbuchtyStopover.co.uk

 

[BOWHOUSE52]

I'd agree that with the comment there are aires & aires...they vary a lot. Some are basically car parks & in that situation nothing in my opinion should be outside of the van. Unfortunately people do & it upsets locals who've complained to councils & then they stop it altogether.

I'm glad to see the CAMPRA group is successfully helping to get a lot more aires & parking in the UK.

You can guarantee you will get the usual idiot's abuse it and spoil it for everyone And then site closed down

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[dawsey]

Aires, especially if they are free, should be principally considered as overnight parking and nothing else. Therefore no awnings, no sitting out etc because you will be taking the usually limited space that others could use to park.

Paid aires usually have defined parking spaces, you can do what you like within the defined space you have paid for in that case.

Sometimes the free aires will also have defined spaces. You will see that the amount of lateral space makes it difficult to put out awnings etc, though often a table would be possible and as long as you are well within the defined space it isn’t going to be a problem.

As others have said, the intent of an aire is a defined place where campers can safely park for a limited time, usually provided by the commune in the hope that camper banners a) don’t make a nuisance by parking and dumping waste randomly) and b) visit the local businesses while briefly visiting the locality. Therefore, on the small free ones with limited space you are not expected to look like you have set up for a two week stay.

 

[Peregrinator]

The problem with signs in general but particularly in Spain is they often don't apply all the time or are just plain stupid.

No dogs on beaches = ignored


No overnight parking = ignored when it suits them.


My view is IF you are going to create a rule and put up a sign it needs to be enforced 24/7 or it leaves room for doubt


I also don't agree with many off them , dogs don't ruin or mess up beaches fir instance . Dirty lazy entitled people ruin and mess up beaches but they get free reign .

I generally avoid campsites and aires 99% of the time as I don't want all the rules or the neighbours ....because we ALL break rules somewhere

I wouldn't like to kids getting sand in their mouths or in the eyes which has had Dog poo/pee in it.

 

[Peregrinator]

Aires, especially if they are free, should be principally considered as overnight parking and nothing else. Therefore no awnings, no sitting out etc because you will be taking the usually limited space that others could use to park.

Paid aires usually have defined parking spaces, you can do what you like within the defined space you have paid for in that case.

Sometimes the free aires will also have defined spaces. You will see that the amount of lateral space makes it difficult to put out awnings etc, though often a table would be possible and as long as you are well within the defined space it isn’t going to be a problem.

As others have said, the intent of an aire is a defined place where campers can safely park for a limited time, usually provided by the commune in the hope that camper banners a) don’t make a nuisance by parking and dumping waste randomly) and b) visit the local businesses while briefly visiting the locality. Therefore, on the small free ones with limited space you are not expected to look like you have set up for a two week stay.

"you can do what you like" Paid or not, you can't do what you like

 

[Spriddler]

On some aires there's barely sufficient room to open the hab door, never mind putting the awning out.

 

[dawsey]

"you can do what you like" Paid or not, you can't do what you like

perhaps I should have been clear, ‘within reason, using common sense and with due consideration for the safety of others’ - only then, you can do what you like. I’d sort of assumed from the overall tone of my post that the above was obvious

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[Northernraider]

I wouldn't like to kids getting sand in their mouths or in the eyes which has had Dog poo/pee in it.

Sure .

But here's the thing , would you like them standing on fish hooks? Dirty nappies ? , shit stained wet wipes? , used condoms ? Beer bottle lids? Broken glass ? Sharp cans etc


All things I see on beaches every day .


I pick up my dog poo


As I said dogs don't ruin beaches. People do that

 

[nicholsong]

The Authorities make the rules...the Law enforcement officers then have the power to apply if deemed necessary...as you know rules banning wilding in Murcia was passed last year...the numbers are overwhelmingly difficult to control, therefore being ignored by those that park and those that are empowered to move them on...

If they did enforce them there could be long queues on the roads leading to the full campsites, thus causing traffic problems.

 

[Minxy]

If they did enforce them there could be long queues on the roads leading to the full campsites, thus causing traffic problems.

The problem is also that the campsites are full, on a couple of occasions we had MHers staying overnight parked near us as they couldn't get on a site within reasonable driving distance.

 

[Fidge]

Would have liked to see someone try to put an awning up on this aire. I could have dipped my biscuit in next doors cup of tea! There was a a lovely beach, and restraunt and campsite within a five minute walk. So lovely we stayed on the campsite for a few days too. Magnificent display of parking by the French driver parked at the end, never though in a million years he would make it. Respect!

 

[Manic]

We mainly use Aires in France and only once been told about having electric step out and on ramps.
Once on an Aire on the route of the Tour du France and Garndarme lady came around saying No Camping and move closer, we were about to put chairs up ( chairs on grass behind van) and move closer to French neighbours but he said no, just stay as we were.
On some Aires in Normandy and other areas the signs are very plan, so no question about what’s allowed and what’s not.
This example shows that you would think it would be okay to have chairs out but sign shows otherwise

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[Brains]

Oooh, I've not come across the 'no ramps' rule before !

Unless the space is totally flat what is wrong with putting out the ramps ?
I even put my van on ramps when it's occasionally parked on the public road outside my house just to deal with the camber.

 

[jumar]

If they did enforce them there could be long queues on the roads leading to the full campsites, thus causing traffic problems.

Those that wild will not queue up for campsites...they will go elsewhere, which is most likely what the Murcia authorities want..as for causing traffic problems, that would play directly into the Hands of the Guardia Civil Trafico...they do not apply a Softly Softly ruling...
Having been actively involved in the planning, building and publicising both campsites and Camperstops, I am still totally amazed by some of the comments above and the Naivety of those who visit Spain..

 

[jumartoo]

There are hundreds of official motorhome areas inland. Some are pay, most free. We've just been on some of them. Some we were alone, others there were a handful of, mainly other tourists. The only time any had a bigger than average number was at the weekend at a place (pay) near some lagoons, when the Spanish came away Friday to Sunday.

If people are going to want to still come to Spain (in this instance) for the winter, then they are going to have to spread themselves more thinly. Otherwise bans on motorhomes, in all but official places, will be brought into force.

40 places, free, with own water supply and electricity and good disposal point.

A pay place in a scheme running in this area €6.05 to stay for the night. €2.45 for other things, e.g. emptying/filling or toilet/showers or electricity.

Official parking next to a castle and reservoir. No facilities, but not far tpfrom the place above. (Still someone parked in the NO MOTORHOMES area, but was moved off there jn the evening)

Private house, British owned, who allow 3 motorhomes to park. No emptying facilities but they do have showers and toilets and a room with washing machine/microwave/kettle. €8 a night.

 

[Oldrat]

Sure .

But here's the thing , would you like them standing on fish hooks? Dirty nappies ? , shit stained wet wipes? , used condoms ? Beer bottle lids? Broken glass ? Sharp cans etc


All things I see on beaches every day .


I pick up my dog poo


As I said dogs don't ruin beaches. People do that

I love well behaved dogs. I like watching them running around and having fun.

I don’t want them jumping up at me and I have friends who are very nervous around dogs and avoid them mostly, except when a dog runs up to them and jumps up with paws on their clothes etc etc

I love well behaved dogs with responsible owners.

After all owning a pet is the OWNERS responsibility.

 

[jumar]

There are hundreds of official motorhome areas inland. Some are pay, most free. We've just been on some of them. Some we were alone, others there were a handful of, mainly other tourists. The only time any had a bigger than average number was at the weekend at a place (pay) near some lagoons, when the Spanish came away Friday to Sunday.

If people are going to want to still come to Spain (in this instance) for the winter, then they are going to have to spread themselves more thinly. Otherwise bans on motorhomes, in all but official places, will be brought into force.

View attachment 717247View attachment 717248View attachment 717249View attachment 717251

And all totally legal.,

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[gus-lopez]

Spain is different they can be quite strick on Aires and its a no for awnings tables and chairs etc.

It is also a 'NO' for putting the step out, leaving a step out , side or rear windows open. shoes left outside, all classed as "camping"
& if you want to know how to get out without a step , then it is the front doors.No front doors then legally if you need a step you can't use it.

We mainly use Aires in France and only once been told about having electric step out and on ramps.
Once on an Aire on the route of the Tour du France and Garndarme lady came around saying No Camping and move closer, we were about to put chairs up ( chairs on grass behind van) and move closer to French neighbours but he said no, just stay as we were.
On some Aires in Normandy and other areas the signs are very plan, so no question about what’s allowed and what’s not.
This example shows that you would think it would be okay to have chairs out but sign shows otherwise View attachment 717163View attachment 717164

as shown on the lower picture , no step out.

Oooh, I've not come across the 'no ramps' rule before !

Unless the space is totally flat what is wrong with putting out the ramps ?
I even put my van on ramps when it's occasionally parked on the public road outside my house just to deal with the camber.

In spain the "no ramps" usually does not apply as they can be classed as 'chocks' which you are legally required to have in all commercial vehicles, anything derived from a commercial vehicle( N1 on log bookrather than M1) & anything over 3,5Tonnes.

 

[Manic]

as shown on the lower picture , no step out.

Where we got told about the step was a different Aire with no signage , just parking on a rough end of track.

 

[stuartholmes]

There is an app called Camping car park. They have many sites in France at around 13€. We use them when it suits us and find them pretty good stopovers. You can do the chair, table, awning thing, no problem.
A one off small payment gets you into the system and it lasts for life.
Phil

It's also a website you can just bookmark, for these like me whose phone is far too full for yet more apps!! https://www.campingcarpark.com/en_GB/search/areas/map

 

[Lenny HB]

It is also a 'NO' for putting the step out, leaving a step out , side or rear windows open. shoes left outside, all classed as "camping"

I knew about a step when parked a road but not on an Aire. Sounds dangerous to me as when stopped most people leave the step out, It's not funny stepping out of a double floor Motorhome to find the step missing.
I always thought the step rule applied to separate steps not to ones built into the Motorhome.

 

[suavecarve]

We find there is nearly always somewhere to sit under a tree for shade, whether that be our own chairs or provided ones.
This negates the need to have the awning out, hence no awning on our van.
Havent missed the awning yet (total of 10 weeks last year)
But will be considering looking at the bargains available when people start selling theirs having read this thread

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[jumar]

I knew about a step when parked a road but not on an Aire. Sounds dangerous to me as when stopped most people leave the step out, It's not funny stepping out of a double floor Motorhome to find the step missing.
I always thought the step rule applied to separate steps not to ones built into the Motorhome.

The step issue is not listed in these...but I can assure you gus-lopez is correct in his information..

 

[Oldrat]

Sounds like it’s because a step protrudes outside of the perimeter of the van

 

[nicholsong]

If our hab side windows are half open they do not protrude beyond the wing mirrors which are part of the width of the vehicle in legal operational use.

 

[Lenny HB]

If our hab side windows are half open they do not protrude beyond the wing mirrors which are part of the width of the vehicle in legal operational use.

Same would apply to a step.

 

[gus-lopez]

If our hab side windows are half open they do not protrude beyond the wing mirrors which are part of the width of the vehicle in legal operational use.

The legal width of a vehicle anywhere does not include the mirrors.They have to fold up so as to be within the maximum width of the widest part of the bodywork when folded. This is why you see many vehicles with what appear to be peculiar ways, shapes & angles to the fold up position. In spain the width & length measurements are on your documents.

which are part of the width of the vehicle in legal operational use.

& only when in motion. When stopped/parked the width is the widest part of the bodywork.

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[nicholsong]

The legal width of a vehicle anywhere does not include the mirrors.They have to fold up so as to be within the maximum width of the widest part of the bodywork when folded. This is why you see many vehicles with what appear to be peculiar ways, shapes & angles to the fold up position. In spain the width & length measurements are on your documents.


& only when in motion. When stopped/parked the width is the widest part of the bodywork.

Ours even when folded stick out 4-5"