Icad Registration in France - an update

[cocolux]

That site, schengenvisainfo.com, is not an official site and is as guilty of sloppy and ill-informed reporting as most others.

Check out their legal disclaimer:

View attachment 657318

Everything has a disclaimer on it these days. The vets I use, in France, will not issue a pet passport without proof of address and I-cad registration, as it is a legal requirement, in France, for the dogs to be on the icad system before one can be issued. The icad system is affiliated to the Department of Agriculute and is not just a data base for lost and found dogs.

 

[maz]

Everything has a disclaimer on it these days. The vets I use, in France, will not issue a pet passport without proof of address and I-cad registration, as it is a legal requirement, in France, for the dogs to be on the icad system before one can be issued. The icad system is affiliated to the Department of Agriculute and is not just a data base for lost and found dogs.

If it is a legal requirement there must be an actual law published to that effect. No-one has yet produced any evidence of such a ’law’.

 

[cocolux]

Your dog can actually be registered on I-cad if your stay is less than 3 months, should you choose to do so. The legal requirement is that you must register your dog on I-cad if your stay is over 3 months. The wording on the I-cad website is sloppy and unclear, hence the odd interpretations that keep occurring.

You need to prove an address in France, if under three months and your pet is required to be registered within a month, if it is going to be iimported to France permanently. I speak from experience.I

If it is a legal requirement there must be an actual law published to that effect. No-one has yet produced any evidence of such a ’law’.

I tend to listen to the vet, that I have used for 8 years. His take on it, is that it his good name and practice that is in jeopardy, if he doesn’t follow the rules, therefore he is not prepared to issue a pet passport to a dog if it is not icad registered, as if there is a problem with the dog I.e attacks someone, and the passport is traced back to his practice then he could be fined or lose his licence. I

 

[maz]

I tend to listen to the vet, that I have used for 8 years. His take on it, is that it his good name and practice that is in jeopardy, if he doesn’t follow the rules, therefore he is not prepared to issue a pet passport to a dog if it is not icad registered, as if there is a problem with the dog I.e attacks someone, and the passport is traced back to his practice then he could be fined or lose his licence.

Really?! Where is the ‘law’ that covers that particular scenario? There is so much of this out-of-proportion scaremongering around on the web, mainly on Facebook. All that a Pet Passport does is certify that the dog in question has been vaccinated against rabies to the satisfaction of the EU authorities.

 

[yodeli]

Hi All!

Sorry I didn't take any time to read whatever has been said since my last post.

I'm relying , for the following , on a friend who did searches for me ...Donkey work for me she said!! As I could not manage to find any free time (I can't even go to a supermarket and buy food! lol!)
So here is the result.

It is quite a bit of a read but I'm sure you are all very brave when it comes to your pets!

Anything you would like to have details about, just ask away!

The Role of ICAD and the Reality regarding EU Pet Passports.

1. Some of you have mentioned that ICAD is just the body that registers importations of dogs and cats into France. However, this is not correct it is much more that an administrative body. It is the arm of the French KC that yes does the administration but has the power to order investigations into illegal importation and direct prefectures to act on any findings. Do not under-estimate their power in France.

2. EU pet passports and in this instance French Rules. In order to legally qualify for a French pet passport your animal must be PERMANENTLY imported and resident in France. Prior to Brexit nobody really checked so yes there are some pets whose owners have maison secondaires who have a passport but be aware that you shouldn't and 'could' be controlled.

3. In order to qualify for a pet passport you MUST register your pet WITH ICAD and by doing so you are confirming you are permanently resident in France. Your vet has to sign off registration. ICAD are now often but not always checking residency by asking for a copy of visas or CDS. Of course as with any large bureaucratic body some do drop through the holes however spot checks are happening at entry points into France especially from the UK. For instance one question being asked is "if your pet has a French passport but you are driving on UK plates, which is illegal, your pet passport or your car" (you must import your car within a month of becoming resident but this isn't the point here). People are then being faced with admission they are second home owners and therefore turned around to get an animal health certificate or forced to pay import duty on their cars with all that entails.

4. The bottom line is you may have gotten away with it, but the law is clear you must be a permanent French resident for your pet to qualify for a French EU passport or any other EU passport for that matter. If you have a passport from another EU country and are PERMANENTLY RESIDENT in France, that is legal. You can use it to travel, so long as you follow the rules regarding rabies vaccination and worming going to the UK, until it is full when you can then change to a French passport or you can ask to switch to a French passport if it bothers you.

5. If you are permanently resident in France and have a pet passport then it is vital any rabies boosters (3 yrly is acceptable) must be done in the EU. If you booster in the UK or any other third country nation then that passport is immediately invalidated and you will need to re start the process.

6. If you are coming to live in France permanently you have a week roughly to visit a vet to start the importation of your animal. The requirements depend on where you are coming from but ICAD will, and can, ask for more if they are not satisfied you have followed the rules from that country and can impose fines, impoundment or destruction if you have not followed the rules laid down.

7. In regard to vaccination. You are not legally obliged to vaccinate your animal for any disease INCLUDING RABIES whilst living in France. However, a valid rabies vaccination is required to cross any border. No other vaccination is legally required to cross borders though some countries do require core vaccines IF you intend to reside there. A valid rabies is considered to be updated at least every 3 years (this is possible and perfectly legal in France but must have the dates noted in the passport) on or before the expiry date. If you miss that date, the rabies is considered valid no sooner than 21 full days after the vaccination. Even if you miss it by one day, or one month, it will not pass muster at any border or control.

In conclusion, if you are a second home owner you should not be declaring your pet as a permanent French resident. It could potentially can open a whole can of worms regarding cars, taxes and other such things if you get controlled. By all means if you are 'getting away with it' great just be aware that is all you are doing.

Update....this does not affect EU nationals with animals on EU passports just TCNS including UK Citizens.

This is from Strictly Legal France site for residents and second home owners x

Cette FAQ répond aux questions les plus fréquemment posées concernant l’importation d’un animal de compagnie au Royaume-Uni ou les voyages vers La France depuis le Royaume-Uni.
Mon animal dispose d’un passeport britannique. Puis-je obtenir un passeport français ?
En raison d’allergie, mon chien a besoin de croquettes spécifiques. Puis-je les amener en France depuis la Grande-Bretagne ?
Mon chien dispose d’un passeport français. Je vais effectuer un long séjour au Royaume-Uni et j’ai l’intention de faire faire son rappel de vaccination rage au Royaume-Uni. Les conditions pour le retour en France de mon animal sont-elles modifiées ?
Je souhaite venir avec mon chiot de 8 semaines en France. Est-ce possible ?
Ai-je besoin de faire faire une prise de sang à mon chat pour venir en France ?
Mon animal dispose d’un passeport britannique. Puis-je obtenir un passeport français ?
Un vétérinaire français peut délivrer un passeport européen à un animal titulaire d’un passeport britannique. Le vétérinaire devra procéder à l’enregistrement de l’animal dans le fichier national d’identification ICAD si le séjour de l’animal en France est supérieur à une période de 3 mois, conformément à l’article 22 de l’arrêté ministériel du 1er août 2012 relatif à l’identification des carnivores domestiques. Pour pouvoir procéder à l’enregistrement au fichier national, il convient de disposer d’une adresse de résidence en France.
Lors de la délivrance du passeport, le vétérinaire doit reporter et valider l’identification et les données relatives à la vaccination antirabique en cours de validité, sur la base des informations sanitaires disponibles sur le certificat sanitaire qui accompagne l’animal s’il a voyagé depuis la Grande-Bretagne vers l’UE.
Par la suite, le rappel de la vaccination rage doit être effectué dans l’Union européenne pour figurer dans le passeport UE, car un vétérinaire britannique n’est pas autorisé à renseigner un passeport de l’Union européenne.
Vous pouvez conserver le passeport britannique pour justifier des autres vaccinations.
En raison d’allergie, mon chien a besoin de croquettes spécifiques. Puis-je les amener en France depuis la Grande-Bretagne ?
Vous ne pouvez introduire dans l’Union européenne ou y envoyer des colis personnels d’aliments pour animaux familiers requis pour des raisons de santé qu’à condition, s’ils proviennent de Grande-Bretagne :
- que leur poids total n’excède pas la limite de 2 kilogrammes par personne, et
a) que le produit ne doive pas être réfrigéré avant consommation ;
b) qu’il s’agisse d’un produit conditionné de marque déposée, et
c) que le conditionnement soit intact, sauf si son contenu est en cours d’utilisation.
Pour plus de précisions, veuillez consulter la réglementation européenne : EUR-Lex - 32019R2122 - FR - EUR-Lex (europa.eu)

Have a nice evening all
I'm off to bed!!
Frankie

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[uzsnowdrop]

Thank you for that informative post. Good job.

Referendum anyone?

 

[emjaiuk]

Thank you for that informative post. Good job.

Referendum anyone?

Hi All!

Sorry I didn't take any time to read whatever has been said since my last post.

I'm relying , for the following , on a friend who did searches for me ...Donkey work for me she said!! As I could not manage to find any free time (I can't even go to a supermarket and buy food! lol!)
So here is the result.

It is quite a bit of a read but I'm sure you are all very brave when it comes to your pets!

Anything you would like to have details about, just ask away!

The Role of ICAD and the Reality regarding EU Pet Passports.
4. The bottom line is you may have gotten away with it, but the law is clear you must be a permanent French resident for your pet to qualify for a French EU passport or any other EU passport for that matter.

Have a nice evening all
I'm off to bed!!
Frankie

Thanks Frankie, very detailed answer although it doesn’t quote specific legislation. I’m confused about the part I’ve quoted. It seems to say that non French residents can’t use passports from other EU countries.
Is any French official going to object to me, as a UK citizen travelling with dogs with Greek and Belgium passports? It hasn’t happened yet, but the passports have only been inspected by Tunnel employees rather than officials o

 

[maz]

Hi All!

Sorry I didn't take any time to read whatever has been said since my last post.

I'm relying , for the following , on a friend who did searches for me ...Donkey work for me she said!! As I could not manage to find any free time (I can't even go to a supermarket and buy food! lol!)
So here is the result.

It is quite a bit of a read but I'm sure you are all very brave when it comes to your pets!

Anything you would like to have details about, just ask away!

The Role of ICAD and the Reality regarding EU Pet Passports.

1. Some of you have mentioned that ICAD is just the body that registers importations of dogs and cats into France. However, this is not correct it is much more that an administrative body. It is the arm of the French KC that yes does the administration but has the power to order investigations into illegal importation and direct prefectures to act on any findings. Do not under-estimate their power in France.

2. EU pet passports and in this instance French Rules. In order to legally qualify for a French pet passport your animal must be PERMANENTLY imported and resident in France. Prior to Brexit nobody really checked so yes there are some pets whose owners have maison secondaires who have a passport but be aware that you shouldn't and 'could' be controlled.

3. In order to qualify for a pet passport you MUST register your pet WITH ICAD and by doing so you are confirming you are permanently resident in France. Your vet has to sign off registration. ICAD are now often but not always checking residency by asking for a copy of visas or CDS. Of course as with any large bureaucratic body some do drop through the holes however spot checks are happening at entry points into France especially from the UK. For instance one question being asked is "if your pet has a French passport but you are driving on UK plates, which is illegal, your pet passport or your car" (you must import your car within a month of becoming resident but this isn't the point here). People are then being faced with admission they are second home owners and therefore turned around to get an animal health certificate or forced to pay import duty on their cars with all that entails.

4. The bottom line is you may have gotten away with it, but the law is clear you must be a permanent French resident for your pet to qualify for a French EU passport or any other EU passport for that matter. If you have a passport from another EU country and are PERMANENTLY RESIDENT in France, that is legal. You can use it to travel, so long as you follow the rules regarding rabies vaccination and worming going to the UK, until it is full when you can then change to a French passport or you can ask to switch to a French passport if it bothers you.

5. If you are permanently resident in France and have a pet passport then it is vital any rabies boosters (3 yrly is acceptable) must be done in the EU. If you booster in the UK or any other third country nation then that passport is immediately invalidated and you will need to re start the process.

6. If you are coming to live in France permanently you have a week roughly to visit a vet to start the importation of your animal. The requirements depend on where you are coming from but ICAD will, and can, ask for more if they are not satisfied you have followed the rules from that country and can impose fines, impoundment or destruction if you have not followed the rules laid down.

7. In regard to vaccination. You are not legally obliged to vaccinate your animal for any disease INCLUDING RABIES whilst living in France. However, a valid rabies vaccination is required to cross any border. No other vaccination is legally required to cross borders though some countries do require core vaccines IF you intend to reside there. A valid rabies is considered to be updated at least every 3 years (this is possible and perfectly legal in France but must have the dates noted in the passport) on or before the expiry date. If you miss that date, the rabies is considered valid no sooner than 21 full days after the vaccination. Even if you miss it by one day, or one month, it will not pass muster at any border or control.

In conclusion, if you are a second home owner you should not be declaring your pet as a permanent French resident. It could potentially can open a whole can of worms regarding cars, taxes and other such things if you get controlled. By all means if you are 'getting away with it' great just be aware that is all you are doing.

Update....this does not affect EU nationals with animals on EU passports just TCNS including UK Citizens.

This is from Strictly Legal France site for residents and second home owners x

Cette FAQ répond aux questions les plus fréquemment posées concernant l’importation d’un animal de compagnie au Royaume-Uni ou les voyages vers La France depuis le Royaume-Uni.
Mon animal dispose d’un passeport britannique. Puis-je obtenir un passeport français ?
En raison d’allergie, mon chien a besoin de croquettes spécifiques. Puis-je les amener en France depuis la Grande-Bretagne ?
Mon chien dispose d’un passeport français. Je vais effectuer un long séjour au Royaume-Uni et j’ai l’intention de faire faire son rappel de vaccination rage au Royaume-Uni. Les conditions pour le retour en France de mon animal sont-elles modifiées ?
Je souhaite venir avec mon chiot de 8 semaines en France. Est-ce possible ?
Ai-je besoin de faire faire une prise de sang à mon chat pour venir en France ?
Mon animal dispose d’un passeport britannique. Puis-je obtenir un passeport français ?
Un vétérinaire français peut délivrer un passeport européen à un animal titulaire d’un passeport britannique. Le vétérinaire devra procéder à l’enregistrement de l’animal dans le fichier national d’identification ICAD si le séjour de l’animal en France est supérieur à une période de 3 mois, conformément à l’article 22 de l’arrêté ministériel du 1er août 2012 relatif à l’identification des carnivores domestiques. Pour pouvoir procéder à l’enregistrement au fichier national, il convient de disposer d’une adresse de résidence en France.
Lors de la délivrance du passeport, le vétérinaire doit reporter et valider l’identification et les données relatives à la vaccination antirabique en cours de validité, sur la base des informations sanitaires disponibles sur le certificat sanitaire qui accompagne l’animal s’il a voyagé depuis la Grande-Bretagne vers l’UE.
Par la suite, le rappel de la vaccination rage doit être effectué dans l’Union européenne pour figurer dans le passeport UE, car un vétérinaire britannique n’est pas autorisé à renseigner un passeport de l’Union européenne.
Vous pouvez conserver le passeport britannique pour justifier des autres vaccinations.
En raison d’allergie, mon chien a besoin de croquettes spécifiques. Puis-je les amener en France depuis la Grande-Bretagne ?
Vous ne pouvez introduire dans l’Union européenne ou y envoyer des colis personnels d’aliments pour animaux familiers requis pour des raisons de santé qu’à condition, s’ils proviennent de Grande-Bretagne :
- que leur poids total n’excède pas la limite de 2 kilogrammes par personne, et
a) que le produit ne doive pas être réfrigéré avant consommation ;
b) qu’il s’agisse d’un produit conditionné de marque déposée, et
c) que le conditionnement soit intact, sauf si son contenu est en cours d’utilisation.
Pour plus de précisions, veuillez consulter la réglementation européenne : EUR-Lex - 32019R2122 - FR - EUR-Lex (europa.eu)

Have a nice evening all
I'm off to bed!!
Frankie

Hi Frankie. Thank you to you and to your friend for her research. I have looked at the Strictly Legal France site mentioned and it just seems to be a Facebook page:

If so, I would be suspicious of both its content and the objectives of some of its members.

As Malcolm says, there is no evidence of any actual laws supporting the assertions made in the post. The only law that gets a mention further down in the French language section is Article 22 of the arrête dated 1 Aug 2012. All this states is that a dog must be registered on I- cad if it will be in France for more than 3 months. It is the same arrête that gets mentioned on the I-cad website, in their poorly worded ‘Brexit statement’.

 

[yodeli]

The site (yes Facebook page) which provides all this info only allows proved things. The lawyer who did the search is specialised in both French and UK laws. I guess, he doesn't put all his work online. Everybody takes it for granted as it's all checked before by the admin, and doesn't ask for more. So it's a bit like speeding ... you get caught ...or not!
If what it says isn't clearly defined, then it is just due to unprecise rules/laws... I can only GUESS! I know Facebook is more than often pointed out as something not relyable, but I reckon it can also be the opposite.
I don't see where I can find a better option.... apart from paying for a lawyer to do a very precise job ..if it is actually possible by all means.

 

[yodeli]

I'm thinking of a possible other option: asking to the local police and gendarmerie how do they check all this and what law do they use... tell me all in what towns you usually get on French territory when coming to France

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[maz]

The site (yes Facebook page) which provides all this info only allows proved things. The lawyer who did the search is specialised in both French and UK laws. I guess, he doesn't put all his work online. Everybody takes it for granted as it's all checked before by the admin, and doesn't ask for more. So it's a bit like speeding ... you get caught ...or not!
If what it says isn't clearly defined, then it is just due to unprecise rules/laws... I can only GUESS! I know Facebook is more than often pointed out as something not relyable, but I reckon it can also be the opposite.
I don't see where I can find a better option.... apart from paying for a lawyer to do a very precise job ..if it is actually possible by all means.

Hi again Frankie. Having clicked on the avatars of the admins/moderators of that Facebook page, I would not say any of them were legally qualified in any way.

 

[maz]

I'm thinking of a possible other option: asking to the local police and gendarmerie how do they check all this and what law do they use... tell me all in what towns you usually get on French territory when coming to France

Hi Frankie. I appreciate your thinking but if these assertions had any legal weight, there would be published laws or directives behind them. This would apply across all of France. Pet Passports are only of interest to Border Control, and the law regarding their use is EU Reg 576/2013. Yes, individual countries can introduce their own ‘requirements’ concerning the issue of Pet Passports - but in France this is particularly unclear. For example, Italy has long had the requirement in place that Pet Passports need to be issued through the ASL and an Italian address is needed at which the dog can be registered (although the owner does not have to be an Italian resident). However, France only seems to have introduced their ’requirements’ since Brexit, in what appears to be a (probably understandable) knee-jerk reaction. These ‘requirements’ only seem to be published on the I-cad website (in unfortunately obscure wording). This then gets quoted as ‘law’ without any actual legal backing behind it.

 

[yodeli]

I have now registerd on that Facebook page. You can read my first post.
I know it might be a bit of a "bis repetitas " but can you give me precise and short questions" I can ask both in French and in English. I want to test them

Still awaiting for moderation....

 

[maz]

I have now registerd on that Facebook page. You can read my first post.
I know it might be a bit of a "bis repetitas " but can you give me precise and short questions" I can ask both in French and in English. I want to test them

Hi again Frankie. That is good of you. Basically, we just want to know what actual laws are behind their assertions - that is, quoted names and/or numbers of laws or directives. Also, where these quoted laws or directives are published so that they can be read in full. Many thanks - and good luck!

 

[yodeli]

Hummmm, they refused my introduction post ! LOL only questions! Alright then !

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[Peg Star]

Find this all really bizarre so much smoke and mirrors to prevent / make difficult / expensive for a few folks to take their pets on holiday to France!! Surely you’d think the authority on this would be border controls - they either allow you in and out of U.K. & E.U. with a French/E.U. pet passport or they don’t….
My dread is you have been allowed into E.U. with the pet passport then either a French vet won’t record the administered wormer into said passport as it’s a U.K. address (do we pop into Belgium or Germany?) or you get to pet passport control and they say the passport is not valid as it’s not a French address!! At the moment they do not seem the least bit bothered, is this to change? Would you have to attempt to get a French issued AHC if this happened?? Who will be the first to find out?
We have been to France twice this year with our French pet passport and all the various vets we’ve been to for wormers and rabies vaccination seem really on edge about this having to have a ‘Home in France’!!
To me it all seems very peculiar that no one can point to any clear law showing this is the case and if they are not interested at the border (which surely is the whole point of the passport) it would seem logical that it is not ‘law’ at all!! Having said that the world is currently going completely mad, very little is making sense lately….

 

[bertiebasset]

What amazes me is the lengths some folk are going to to avoid the seemingly "rip" off prices for a pet passport issued in Britain (is there such a thing?). I do not and have no intention of carrying a pooch in my motorhome but you seem to be querying the legal systems in France and not asking why the prices in the UK are so high.
Would you be upset if when arriving at the border to return home to find your pooch is to be put down as it is not there legally ??

 

[Peg Star]

What amazes me is the lengths some folk are going to to avoid the seemingly "rip" off prices for a pet passport issued in Britain (is there such a thing?). I do not and have no intention of carrying a pooch in my motorhome but you seem to be querying the legal systems in France and not asking why the prices in the UK are so high.
Would you be upset if when arriving at the border to return home to find your pooch is to be put down as it is not there legally ??

I would very much like to know why the prices for the AHC at home are so high!! Our French passport is pre brexit so we haven’t gone to any great lengths to obtain it but I’d be mortified if I’d been allowed into the E.U. with my legal documentation and then it’s suddenly not legal when it’s time to come home. With such discrepancies at the border compared to what information the vets are given & giving it doesn’t seem unreasonable to be able to find official legislation /documentation for a definitive answer to prevent such scenario occurring.

 

[Nigel P]

Find this all really bizarre so much smoke and mirrors to prevent / make difficult / expensive for a few folks to take their pets on holiday to France!! Surely you’d think the authority on this would be border controls - they either allow you in and out of U.K. & E.U. with a French/E.U. pet passport or they don’t….
My dread is you have been allowed into E.U. with the pet passport then either a French vet won’t record the administered wormer into said passport as it’s a U.K. address (do we pop into Belgium or Germany?) or you get to pet passport control and they say the passport is not valid as it’s not a French address!! At the moment they do not seem the least bit bothered, is this to change? Would you have to attempt to get a French issued AHC if this happened?? Who will be the first to find out?
We have been to France twice this year with our French pet passport and all the various vets we’ve been to for wormers and rabies vaccination seem really on edge about this having to have a ‘Home in France’!!
To me it all seems very peculiar that no one can point to any clear law showing this is the case and if they are not interested at the border (which surely is the whole point of the passport) it would seem logical that it is not ‘law’ at all!! Having said that the world is currently going completely mad, very little is making sense lately….

I agree, having kept an eye on this thread as it is relevant to our circumstances I find that there are two issues which are occasionally being treated as one. The issue of a pet passport in an EU country is quite different to a vet making entries in an existing passport. As has been stated several times previously the EU pet passport system is simply a recording of rabies status for the dog as recognised by each member state. Nothing in the original legislation made reference to residency or periods of time spent in any of the member states.
The example of worming tablets is probably a good one, the worming requirement is not of French origin, it is not controlled by any French legislation, it is a UK requirement. As such, from a French vet's point of view, it has the same legal significance as selling you a new dog collar!
If the French 'law', as it is so frequently referred to, has some basis in law why is it so hard to find? So far we have had no issues travelling back and forth, our dog has an Irish passport with an initial Irish address, we have also lived in Germany and back in the UK. The address in the passport is not recorded anywhere beyond the passport unless you choose to register it on any of the relevant databases, as such it is infinitly changeable and has no bearing on the rabies status of the dog.
Pet passports are not a government priority either side of the Channel at the moment so any definitive text might be a long time coming!

 

[emjaiuk]

A couple of posts on this thread have got me thinking. Are we asking the right people about dog travel legislation? We don’t actually see any ‘border officials’ when travelling with a dog. Rules such as they are are checked and applied by employees of private companies,e.g. ferries and the tunnel. Maybe we should attempt to ask them what are the rules they follow, and who issues them. Should be easier to be specific now they are operating entry checks into the EU

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[yodeli]

To me it all seems very peculiar that no one can point to any clear law showing this is the case

I've been on the computer for about 2 hours this afternoon, trying to find where else I could check things.
I have learnt (Well I knew the words but never thought it could be the case) that what are called laws can have different names for example décrets directives and a few others I've seen while searching.
And if the rules I-CAD obeys to, can be one of them. Makes the search difficult.

Here are a few sites I've been on among many others...

Rechercher - publications - rechercher passeport pour chiens - page 1 - Ministère de l'Agriculture, de la Souveraineté alimentaire et de la Forêt

Site internet du Ministère de l'Agriculture, de la Souveraineté alimentaire et de la Forêt

agriculture.gouv.fr

https://info.agriculture.gouv.fr/gedei/site/bo-agri

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/jo/id/JORFCONT000042845170

... Asking where to call, to write, or who is in charge of, went on "official Facebook pages" where they write but never answer questions. These pages are just there to give info day after day, that's all.

I can't do it all, indeed. I'm far too busy at the moment to be able to call in time (understand when it is open). I don't give up, but have to delay. I just hope things won't top up at work...
Thanks all for your patience!

 

[Peg Star]

I've been on the computer for about 2 hours this afternoon, trying to find where else I could check things.
I have learnt (Well I knew the words but never thought it could be the case) that what are called laws can have different names for example décrets directives and a few others I've seen while searching.
And it the rules T-CAD obeys to, can be one of them. Makes the search difficult.

Here are a few sites I've been on among many others...

Rechercher - publications - rechercher passeport pour chiens - page 1 - Ministère de l'Agriculture, de la Souveraineté alimentaire et de la Forêt

Site internet du Ministère de l'Agriculture, de la Souveraineté alimentaire et de la Forêt

agriculture.gouv.fr

https://info.agriculture.gouv.fr/gedei/site/bo-agri

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/jo/id/JORFCONT000042845170

... Asking where to call, to write, or who is in charge of, went on "official Facebook pages" where they write but never answer questions. These pages are just there to give info day after day, that's all.

I can't do it all, indeed. I'm far too busy at the moment to be able to call in time (understand when it is open). I don't give up, but have to delay. I just hope things won't top up at work...
Thanks all for your patience!

You are doing a fantastic job and my comments were by no means pointing in your direct - apologies if it came across that way - I was speaking more generally. I fully appreciate as many others do to your continuing efforts to get the information we are discussing.

Would you be upset if when arriving at the border to return home to find your pooch is to be put down as it is not there legally ??

Someone would be finding the relevant ‘law / legislation ‘ immediately if they were attempting to destroy my dog!!

We have been in the unenviable position of not knowing if our dog would be accepted back into the country previously as our vet had made an error on our U.K. passport hence the French vet issued us with a French one in 2019 so it was the combination of the two passports and a letter also written by the French vet that got us through. (Also a letter and DEFRA form completed by our vet confirming she’d made an error but this was immediately disregarded by pet passport!) It was the gut wrenching sick feeling that we didn’t know if our ‘rescue pup with separation anxiety’ would be allowed back into the U.K. that will stay with us forever and in no circumstances do we want to go through that again.
If we end up having to get an AHC then so be it, we will abide by the law with no complaints - but no one wants to cost and hassle if they have all the legal documentation in their back pocket surely?

 

[yodeli]

apologies if it came across that way

Don't you worry, I never read it in a negative way. You just happened to have the sentence I was looking for, that's all indeed... I tend to be lazy at times!

 

[maz]

Find this all really bizarre so much smoke and mirrors to prevent / make difficult / expensive for a few folks to take their pets on holiday to France!! Surely you’d think the authority on this would be border controls - they either allow you in and out of U.K. & E.U. with a French/E.U. pet passport or they don’t….

The authority on this is Border Control. Pet Reception at Eurotunnel (I have only used Eurotunnel, never the ferries) check that your animal complies with Border Control requirements. These requirements are based on actual law - EU Reg 576/2013 - and have to be treated the same by every EU member state. The section of 576/2013 that is particularly relevant to us is Article 27. Paraphrasing this:
The movement into an EU country from a territory or a third country of a pet animal (dog, cat or ferret) accompanied by a passport shall be authorised:
a) if issued in one of the territories or third countries listed as a Part 1 country
or
b) if completed and issued by an authorised vet before leaving the Union.

All a Pet Passport does is confirm that an animal has been vaccinated against rabies to the satisfaction of EU requirements. An animal does not have ‘residency’ or ‘nationality’ - it is effectively a chattel belonging to its owner. Owner’s residency is not a requirement in 576/2013.

I have yet to hear of any instance of Border Control actually refusing entry to any pet with a correctly completed EU Pet Passport. There have been occasional reports of either ignorant or misguidedly zealous Border Control officials mentioning that EU residency is a requirement for use of a Pet Passport but, crucially, still allowing said animal to enter. If EU residency was a legal requirement the animal would not have been allowed in.

 

[maz]

I've been on the computer for about 2 hours this afternoon, trying to find where else I could check things.
I have learnt (Well I knew the words but never thought it could be the case) that what are called laws can have different names for example décrets directives and a few others I've seen while searching.
And if the rules I-CAD obeys to, can be one of them. Makes the search difficult.

Here are a few sites I've been on among many others...

Rechercher - publications - rechercher passeport pour chiens - page 1 - Ministère de l'Agriculture, de la Souveraineté alimentaire et de la Forêt

Site internet du Ministère de l'Agriculture, de la Souveraineté alimentaire et de la Forêt

agriculture.gouv.fr

https://info.agriculture.gouv.fr/gedei/site/bo-agri

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/jo/id/JORFCONT000042845170

... Asking where to call, to write, or who is in charge of, went on "official Facebook pages" where they write but never answer questions. These pages are just there to give info day after day, that's all.

I can't do it all, indeed. I'm far too busy at the moment to be able to call in time (understand when it is open). I don't give up, but have to delay. I just hope things won't top up at work...
Thanks all for your patience!

Many thanks for all your efforts, Frankie. I don’t have the time (or the energy!) at the moment to investigate all the sites you have listed but will do so when I can. I might need a bit of help with translations tho’. You are quite marvellous to put in all the effort that you do to help us - but please do not wear yourself out doing so.

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[Reallyretired]

Seems to be an impenetrable mess. Probably simplest is to go out on AHC and attempt to get a Belgian/German/Netherlands passport as they don't seem to have the same rules that France may or may not have.
I can't imagine the French barring entry to a dog/cat/ferret that had a valid EU passport, and certainly the UK would let you back as they would any EU citizen with an EU passport (or AHC or UK pet passport).

 

[maz]

I've been on the computer for about 2 hours this afternoon, trying to find where else I could check things.
I have learnt (Well I knew the words but never thought it could be the case) that what are called laws can have different names for example décrets directives and a few others I've seen while searching.
And if the rules I-CAD obeys to, can be one of them. Makes the search difficult.

Here are a few sites I've been on among many others...

Rechercher - publications - rechercher passeport pour chiens - page 1 - Ministère de l'Agriculture, de la Souveraineté alimentaire et de la Forêt

Site internet du Ministère de l'Agriculture, de la Souveraineté alimentaire et de la Forêt

agriculture.gouv.fr

https://info.agriculture.gouv.fr/gedei/site/bo-agri

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/jo/id/JORFCONT000042845170

... Asking where to call, to write, or who is in charge of, went on "official Facebook pages" where they write but never answer questions. These pages are just there to give info day after day, that's all.

I can't do it all, indeed. I'm far too busy at the moment to be able to call in time (understand when it is open). I don't give up, but have to delay. I just hope things won't top up at work...
Thanks all for your patience!

With my limited French I haven’t been able to find anything useful on the first two sites. The third site, legifrance.gouv.fr, I have come across before. It was where I managed to track down the arrête referred to in the ‘Brexit statement’ on the I-cad website. Rather than write out my findings again, I have posted a link to the thread I started on the subject back in March this year:

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...rom-french-funsters-re-i-cad-register.259274/

In my opinion, we shouldn’t have to trawl through all sorts of websites trying to find evidence behind assertions made by others. The ones making the assertions need to provide that evidence themselves or accept that they will not be taken seriously.

 

[Charente16]

At the Vets' yesterday, a Brit couple came in wanting EU Pet Passports for their two dogs. They were told the dogs had to be first registered with ICAD which requires a french address and proof of Residency ie electric bill etc., They left in their UK registered car, no doubt in search of a more amenable Vet.

 

[Nyvern]

"Dog, cat, but also ferret: all these pets must be identified, i.e. registered in the national identification file for domestic carnivores in France. This file is managed by the company I-cad, placed under delegation of the Ministry of Agriculture and Food Sovereignty. Find all the information on this legal obligation."

 

[gus-lopez]

I've just called in to my vets here in France to book the wormer 'vermifuge pour visite en Angleterre' for our dogs as we are travelling to the UK shortly. No problems at all but the receptionist did check their French passports and that they were all registered with Icad. She also mentioned that French vets have now been told not to administer the wormer or stamp the passport if the animal isn't registered with Icad.

For anyone who has a French pet passport but didn't register with Icad, just a heads up that more vets are checking this now.

This is why I refuse to use french vets. to much trouble & illegal refusal to comply with eu directives which take precedence over national laws unless the national law offers greater benefits to the citizen. which in this case they do not..

Are you truly trying to say that dogs in France are refused medical treatment if they aren’t registered with Icad?

in spain no vet is supposed to treat any dog, cat or ferret if they do not have a microchip. No one takes any notice.

as it is a legal requirement, in France, for the dogs to be on the icad system before one can be issued.

the pet passport regulations do not require that. the idea of a pet passport is so that the traveller from non-eu countries can bring there pets when travelling. france is introducing superflous nonsense that has no legal standing, as they always do contrary to eu directives.

I do not and have no intention of carrying a pooch in my motorhome but you seem to be querying the legal systems in France

The French ignore all eu directives & illegally deny rights that are gained by just being an eu citizen & charge for items &

Would you be upset if when arriving at the border to return home to find your pooch is to be put down as it is not there legally

far more border control would have died long before we got to my pet & as many as I could afterwards along with their families. especially if they are enforcing rules that do not exist within pet passports.

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