I think I’ve broken my inverter

Wellington

Wellington

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Carthago Compact 138
My lovely new-to-me Carthago has a little inverter in the garage. I thought I’d try it our before we head off to the continent tomorrow. It’s a Streetwize inverter, peak power 1600 watts, continuous power 800 watts. So I thought I’d be ok with a 600 watt microwave. It worked for a second and then went off. It now has no lights and appears dead! Electrics look normal, and the batteries have power (the lights work anyway. It’s been plugged in all week, and I just left it unplugged today to make sure the 12v/gas systems are all working properly)

Have I killed it?
What did I do wrong?
Can it be resurrected?
 
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Message received, I’ll send it back. I don’t want to take any risks with fire, especially as I don’t know where the cables run. Bloody thing. It looks like this.

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If it were as easy as just using a pan, I would. We are talking very small amounts of food, and more baked potatoes than any one person can reasonably eat. If I never see another baked potato it will be too soon.

0DAAF652-3390-4063-B80E-6F7B5D143294.jpeg


(This is my smallest milk pan)

I estimate that not having a microwave is going to add a good hour's work to my day. Add that onto the two or three hours driving I expect to do most days, the usual motorhome chores, some work where the @!&* has hit the fan big time, and solo parenting and it starts to look like a pretty crappy 'holiday' from my perspective. Especially as I can’t just hang the expense at the moment, and need to watch the pennies at least a bit as well.
 
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Is that fuse above for the inverter ? Hope not, it's definitely not up to the job and neither are the cables.

800 / 12 = over 70A peak. You need decent cables for that.
 
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I’d have posted pics last night, but it was too dark.

Anyhow, the fuses arrived as well, so I gave it another go. It works fine, until the fuse goes. The fuse that was in it (which goes in the little black thing above it. I’m quite certain it didn’t come out of the box like that, so I suspect it was blowing a lot for the previous occupant, who turned it into an external fuse) was a '20' yellow one (units not given, tut tut. I’m assuming amps.)

Is it the right fuse? I imagine a bigger one would work, but the given that the whole point of a fuse is to blow if necessary, I’m hesitant to just put a bigger one in and melt the wires instead. Or indeed a nail, as I discovered my late husband had put into our last house fuse box.

I’m not sure where the batteries are. I thought they were just the other side of the garage wall, as it would make sense to site the inverter close to them, but that’s the tanks. I think they might be further along in the middle of the van. I’ll investigate.

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Wellington said:
I’d have posted pics last night, but it was too dark.
was a '20' yellow one (units not given, tut tut. I’m assuming amps.)

Is it the right fuse?
Click to expand...

As I've just said, you need 70A or more for the fuse and cables to match. You have no chance of success, huge chance of serious failure.

You'll get it right for next time.
 
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hilldweller said:
Is that fuse above for the inverter ? Hope not, it's definitely not up to the job and neither are the cables.

800 / 12 = over 70A peak. You need decent cables for that.
Click to expand...

Sort of, it’s an internal fuse, that has been modified to be external. In that the wires both come out of and go back into the inverter. It’s not the fuse between the inverter and the battery, which is not visible (nor are the cables. You actually get a better view with the pics, because I can’t get my head between the ceiling and the inverter. I’ve only just seem the bit about it being used outside. Wonder if the garage counts?)
 
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So if I get the right fuse, the cables will melt and set fire to us, if they are not up to spec? Given the, um, carefree nature of the fuse placement, I am wondering about the cables.

If I could get the right fuse, how do I check if the cables are ok? Other than checking for smoke. I mean, it’s always possible it was fitted properly in the first place (I concede it is not looking probable at this point)
 
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Wellington said:
That’s the food I need to be able to heat. I can’t reheat in a pan, because there’s too little, it just coats the sides, but people keep suggesting it, so I thought a visual might help!
Click to expand...
As someone suggested earlier, could you not defrost and reheat the ‘food’ in a container placed in a saucepan of hot water? Will obviously take longer than the microwave, but hopefully not a significantly major hassle.

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From what is visible at the input to the inverter , ie there is a yellow crimp type connector on the negative stud that there is anyway the correct size of cable to deal with the rated power of the inverter . Therefore it is highly probable that the voltage drop on the 12v side of the inverter will make it almost impossible for the inverter to operate at its rated level . if batteries are within 3mtrs then 25mm2 should suffice . JMHO
 
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Wellington said:
Sort of, it’s an internal fuse, that has been modified to be external.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what a 20A internal fuse could be doing - apart from blowing. Clearly it's not right and so much is at stake you need some expert advice before you see if you fire extinguisher works.
 
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I think as others have said. Defrost the meal (overnight in the fridge for the next days meals), place in a small heat proof container (like a ramekin) and heat it in your milk pan with simmering water that comes about two thirds of the way up the ramekin. It's not much extra work - whatever you heat the meal up in would need to be cleaned anyway and the hot water can be used for washing up. The only thing extra you'll have is a saucepan which since it will only have had water in, won't take much cleaning at all.

Not sure about the jacket spuds - I'll have a think on that one.

With regard to driving 2 to 3 hours every day do you really need to do this if it's going to add stress to your day and you just want to relax? We usually get to an area and then spend probably a maximum of 40 minutes each following day driving onto somewhere new; sometimes only 10 minutes.
 
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Good advice from @Stroppybird ... You’ve got a couple of days grace whilst you sort the dentist. One option is to find someone local who can sort / replace / retire an inverter for you. If you can find hook up every night will microwave work? Or at least enough nights to make it less of a chore. I’m wondering if you could reheat baked potatoes in foil in a lidded pan or in an omnia type stove top oven. You might need to defrost them first.
 
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I use sugarcane dishes, no washing up required! No idea how they steam. I suppose I’ll be able to report back.

I don’t really want to go at all. I have a motorhome so we can manage going away, and we are not really ready for foreign climes. It’s a shedload of work for me, and the child is (clearly) a pita to feed. Had I not expected to have the ability to microwave (I can’t tell you how pivotal this is!) I would not have planned to go. But we have to be in a Padua by Saturday to celebrate a 40th birthday. We were supposed to go the Friday before last, but I wasn't able to pick up the van until the day before because of problems with the finance (despite putting a deposit on it in FEBRUARY), then there was a trade in issue (damp in the old van) then an insurance issue (no tracker) both of which had to be sorted at 4.30 at the dealers. Then herself had uti and I found a leak in the spare bedroom, then the bomb dropped at work, which means a finance shortfall and now needs dealing with while we are away (on a problem that should have been sorted months ago). Now, she has toothache, so I need to get her into the dentist tomorrow and it looks like the dog’s kennel arrangements are going to fall through.

Frankly, the thought of washing up saucepans four times a day for the next for weeks on top of all that is beginning to seem like the last straw. I’m tempted to stay home, it’s clearly not meant to be.

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I’ve tried it with a 30 amp fuse, and the microwave works just fine. Until the fuse (unsurprisingly) blows after about a minute. So if I can safely use a bigger fuse, it will be a workable temporary solution. We will probably not go abroad again until she is old enough to put or shut up about local food, so it won’t be a long term issue.

They won’t be the only fuses blowing around here, shortly!
 
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I absolutely do not not believe it. I ordered a steamer last week, in anticpation if having to manage without the microwave.

They sent me a microwave dish cover by mistake.
 
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Wellington said:
I’ve tried it with a 30 amp fuse, and the microwave works just fine. Until the fuse (unsurprisingly) blows after about a minute. So if I can safely use a bigger fuse, it will be a workable temporary solution. We will probably not go abroad again until she is old enough to put or shut up about local food, so it won’t be a long term issue.

They won’t be the only fuses blowing around here, shortly!
Click to expand...
Don’t go it’s not worth the extra stress.
 
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couldnt you just have cheese sandwiches and a packet of crisps, our kids would live on nothing else once,

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Wellington said:
I’ve tried it with a 30 amp fuse, and the microwave works just fine. Until the fuse (unsurprisingly) blows after about a minute. So if I can safely use a bigger fuse,
Click to expand...

Not one for listening are you. My last post. Continue as you are going and you will be on fire.
 
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Wellington said:
I’ve tried it with a 30 amp fuse, and the microwave works just fine. Until the fuse (unsurprisingly) blows after about a minute. So if I can safely use a bigger fuse, it will be a workable temporary solution. We will probably not go abroad again until she is old enough to put or shut up about local food, so it won’t be a long term issue.

They won’t be the only fuses blowing around here, shortly!
Click to expand...
Wellington
My first, and only reply to this thread.
I really do appreciate the stress you are going through, and you came on here to have a rant and try to destress ?
You have sought advice from funsters, and have received lots from electrical experts, many are or were professionals, ALL have said don’t do it. Please don’t.
We don’t want to lose any vans, and we definitely don’t want to lose any funsters!!
 
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Ok. Based on everything you've said in your last long post, I would cancel the trip.

Normally I'm not one for letting things get in the way of my plans, but.... I think you would maybe end up resenting going, not have a great time, and taint the experience for yourself and girl child and then neither of you will ever want to set foot in the van again.

Call the trip off - I'm sure whoever's 40th birthday will be totally understanding if girl child isn't really well enough to travel with her toothache, which may or may not be something, but it's as good a reason as any to not go.

Take the time you've then got to get everything sorted with the van (inverter, microwave, finance etc), get girl child's toothache sorted.

Get yourself to a campsite with hookup in the UK so you can still enjoy a trip away with the microwave doing all the meals you've prepared. Enjoy yourselves, and relax building happy memories.

And, importantly, plan a trip to foreign fields for when the van and everything else is sorted. (Some people say don't plan at all, but I actually enjoy it especially since we're not retired and we can only get away for 2 weeks at a time.)

Just my tuppence worth for what I'd do in your shoes, but best wishes and take care whatever you decide to do xx
 
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OK so lets have a lesson in electrics..
Lets take your "800w Microwave" and have a look on the sticker on the back, see what it's INPUT POWER is... that is the absolute minimum size of inverter you'll need to buy.
To be honest it's better to get the best one you can afford as the cheaper inverters never make their sticker output before overloading and switching off.
My 900w Daewoo Microwave for example has an input power requirement of 1400w.
You need to add in a bit off efficiency loss too as the conversion from 12v to 240v is never perfect.
1500w minimum then....
1500w at 240v is 6.25 amps so on the 240v side plug you would need the normal 13 amp fuse, kinda standard.
But 1500w at 12v is 125 amps, so there's no way on gods earth your yellow 20 amp fuse is going to cut the mustard.
The very fact the inverter has already been modified to me suggests it needs throwing away, it's clearly not up to the job even before modification.
What you need to do is buy a "Mega fuse" and mega fuse holder with a 250amp fuse.
www.12voltplanet.co.uk

Mega Link Fuse Holder

Single mega link fuse holder with protective cover. Fuse & cable are secured via 2 x mate studs. Side or end cable entry. Stackable to make a multi-fuse block.
www.12voltplanet.co.uk
www.12voltplanet.co.uk

Mega Link Fuses

Mega link fuses used for protecting very high current circuits in auto, marine & leisure applications. Available in current ratings from 40A to 500A.
www.12voltplanet.co.uk

Some cable suitable for the job.
I would suggest the 50mm3 MINIMUM spec as I don't know how far your battery bank is away from the inverter.
www.12voltplanet.co.uk

AMC Extra Flexible PVC Battery Cable - 50mm² 345A

AMC 345A 50mm² extra flexible PVC battery/welding cable for auto, marine & leisure applications. Available in red or black.
www.12voltplanet.co.uk

Now Batteries..
While one 100a/hr battery would supply anything from 300-600amps (at 12v) this is only designed to do so in short bursts. leisure batteries are designed to supply lighter loads for extended periods
The "rating" of your batteries at 100 A/hr is usually taken at 20 hrs. so for a battery to give 100 amps and last 20 hrs, it's output needs to be 5 amps.
HOWEVER, you shouldn't discharge a battery fully, you should only take 50% of it's capacity
So each 100 A/hr battery is only 50 A/hr in reality.
You don't really want to pull more than 50 amps out of it on a regular basis if you want it to last
You want to pull 125 amps out of it for a couple of minutes.
It's not happening on one battery but three is good.. 125/3 = 42 amps
In this scenario with 3 100A/hr batteries connected each supplying 42 amps you would probably eek out an hours use in total before being "flat" (flat in brackets as per the not fully discharged but discharged to a safe level).

So there you go, now you can cost up, plan out and execute your off grid setup.

Or next time just book a campsite with mains hookup and save yourself the bother :D

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Sorry, didn't mean to rant, it's just that people keep telling me I will be fine without a microwave, and I am trying to convey how absolutely critical it is for me. I understand most people aren't that bothered, but for me its the tipping point between a holiday and a trip full of chores. It's absolutely not a 'nice-to-have' and I'm no work-shy Princess! I wouldn't choose to go abroad at this point myself, but we are committed and we will go. I'm in no position to cut my losses and pay for something else at this point, either.

I can't spare the head space on the road to plan for stops with electric on such a long trip, and we've got to get ourselves to Padua. We will stay there for a while and reassess.

We do usually stay on sites with hook ups, and I was all set to have a proper inverter fitted, by talented people who know how not to set things on fire, but when the bombshell dropped at work, it means the funds will not now be available. I list my woes merely to illustrate why I am willing to keep trying to make it work. Although not to the extent of setting us on fire. (I suppose that would solve the reheating problem;)...)

Thank you to all the kind people who offered advice, and I promise not to set us on fire! I am generally one for triumph in the face of overwhelming odds, or I'd have collapsed in a gibbering heap years ago, but just at the moment, there are rather a lot odds, and triumph seems in short supply!
 
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eddievanbitz said:
Buy a generator then
Click to expand...

That's a thought, I never even considered that. I don't even know how they work ( I mean how you connect them to useful things like microwaves. I know in theory one puts petrol in and gets electric out). Damn site easier than washing up pans for the next month. Wonder if I can get one before tomorrow....
 
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Just go to campsites and use their electric supply. But it won't be cheap at this time of year. :(

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Buy a couple of smaller pans... that one is far too big for a single portion...
Search for mini saucepans ...
Something like these
Mini Pans
Note the reviewers complain too small!
You might need a diffuser plate on a gas ring
Eg: Gas ring reducer
 
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