I am a bad driver!

[Northernraider]

Having read thus far, I think I had better throw my cards in at this point and maybe vow never to drive in France again.
I will put my hands up and state for the record that I would find it difficult to say the least to maintain the same speed in the MH for mile after mile trying to get safely between two long distance points on a map.
The reason that I would find this so difficult is because of up & down hills in a heavy van, observing other road users, and making allowances for them to either get past me, or stay away from me.
I am probably over conscious of getting off the mark away from traffic lights and roundabouts, so as not to make THEM inpatient and maybe encouraging them into doing something risky in an overtaking manoeuvre to get past me.( I can make allowances, but I cant think for them)
I always try to keep pace "Go With The Flow"with all traffic through towns, and rural areas, that said I do always leave a sensible gap between me and the vehicle in front, almost guessing their next manoeuvre in that they may well brake, not use their indicators before turning, or even undertake when ever possible just to gain few places up the traffic lane, normally carving up me or someone else in the process.
Therefore if I am going to get nicked & fined for driving at 1-3KPH= 1MPH over the speed limit, albeit driving as safely and being as considerate as I can be to all other road users, in all traffic conditions...then I had better not go to France in the van....Sad innit?
Les

Cruise control is great

Set the speed 1mph under speed limit them sit in the back with a coffee

 

[Allanm]

Glad I took the autoroutes now.
Of course I still may have got caught on some minor road and haven't received the invoice yet, but I can safely say I'll not be doing much touring in France while they are being juvenile and stupid about us using their roads.

YOU exceeding the speed limit and getting caught makes THEM juvenile and stupid?
How does that work then?
Keep below the speed limit and you won’t get fined.
Simple

 

[jongood]

IMO many of the french cameras dont seem to have much to do with safety, there are too many of them on downhill stretches of motorway.

I regularly get flashed by the one on the A28 by Abbeville, presumably because it thinks I might be a lorry. I'm usually doing under 100kph.

 

[EX51SSS]

What is 'the law'? The 'law' is a set of rules made up on the spot by largely self apponted bureaucrats, and to apply to us we have to contractually agree to under - stand that law and accept the jurisdiction of any court they invent.

Of course the numbers are arbitrary, if you don't think that then show me the physics behind the decision to make say the D940 80kmh when a week earlier it was 90kmh ?

Fining people for victimless 'crimes' like this is big business:
https://www.connexionfrance.com/Fre...ise-12-and-reach-over-1-billion-euros-in-2019

This type of petty extortion is exactly how England ended up with Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights and I suspect was more than a passing trigger to the ongoing yellow vest protests, now in their 18th week.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-16/yellow-vests-turn-violent-again-macrons-great-debate-ends

Has an englishman under Common Law committed a crime if there is no victim? The answer is no. A technical speed infringement in France is purely a money making exercise and we only pay to keep them off our backs next time we visit, morally and legally it's a purely arbitrary charge. At least Dick Turpin was honest in his intentions.

That obviously appears to be your opinion.
If you're more than happy to use your own arbitrary thoughts and go whatever speed you want in any country you want, then if you get caught, fined and licence suspended and withdrawn, that's fine by me but surely, in this country, where its a similar offence, are you not going to abide by the law, arbitrary or not? It appears your decision to obey the law or not is arbitrary
The laws may be a set of rules made up at the whim of some beaurocraric body but if those laws are not in place, then the entire system breaks down including common law.
I would hardly say that a statute law is arbitrary as it goes through many stages to become law. It isn't decided on a whim.
Tbf, if more people abided by the law, arbitrary or not, we wouldn't be in this semi lawless state we're in now.
Yes, it's wrong to kill but is it now arbitrary to carry or not carry a knife? The carrying of a knife is a victimless crime until one is committed.
However, you convince yourself and others (because you've 40 + years driving experience) that speed limits are arbitrary and when they lose their licence, as they will, where do they go for a defence?

 

[Northernraider]

YOU exceeding the speed limit and getting caught makes THEM juvenile and stupid?
How does that work then?
Keep below the speed limit and you won’t get fined.
Simple

I have to admit with the changing limits constantly at every motorway slip road etc it does get hard to keep up with it.

Is it just me or do Spain and France seem to not know how to move lanes to allow traffic to merge etc ....slowing everyone down at every slip us a little excessive.

We seem to manage it in the UK

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[jongood]

I have to admit with the changing limits constantly at every motorway slip road etc it does get hard to keep up with it.

Is it just me or do Spain and France seem to not know how to move lanes to allow traffic to merge etc ....slowing everyone down at every slip us a little excessive.

We seem to manage it in the UK

I'm is Spain now. Every time I'm here I'm astounded by how much better Spanish roads are than UK. UK roads are mostly dreadful IMO

 

[Northernraider]

I'm is Spain now. Every time I'm here I'm astounded by how much better Spanish roads are than UK. UK roads are mostly dreadful IMO

It's funny I hear a few folk say that but generally I find them terrible

And whatever they use for tar is crap ....more road noise than UK roads

 

[GPW]

YOU exceeding the speed limit and getting caught makes THEM juvenile and stupid?
How does that work then?

I don't know how that works TBH, as that's not what I said at all.
Maybe you thought I said it, but I didn't, have another read.

Keep below the speed limit and you won’t get fined.
Simple

Yes I did basically say this, it seems we agree on this part

That obviously appears to be your opinion.
If you're more than happy to use your own arbitrary thoughts and go whatever speed you want in any country you want,

Of course it's my opinion, why would I be giving someone elses on a forum? That would be wild
Perhaps if you have a point it would also work without misquoting me?
Additionally my thoughts on speed are not arbitrary, like yours they are honed from decades of experience of crash and fine free driving in multiple countries.
They are in fact based on rather more experience than a blanket 'today 90 kmh is unsafe so all 90s will become 80 kmh zones from now on.

Your premise is also invalid, if my 'arbitrary thoughts and go whatever speed you want in any country you want' happen to be within the posted speed limits I don't see a mechanism to be 'caught, fined and licence suspended and withdrawn' - do you?


I appreciate the bluster and passion but it seems you really need to read my post again and try to understand what I'm saying. I think you also missed my use of 'under - stand' above, a quick scan of Blacks Law Dictionary or similar may enlighten you to my meaning there.

Do you Under Stand?

BTW when the government starts obeying it's own laws perhaps there will be more respect for them, but both our and the French governments lawlessness in Syria (not to mention Libya and Yemen) demonstrate a two-tier system, I'm not sure why we should be taking to lower tier of slavish devotion for a self appointed hierarchy of serial law breakers. Legally we're not even a member of the EU right now.

 

[EX51SSS]

Do you Under Stand?

More than you imagine

 

[EX51SSS]

I don't know how that works TBH, as that's not what I said at all.
Maybe you thought I said it, but I didn't, have another read.



Yes I did basically say this, it seems we agree on this part



Of course it's my opinion, why would I be giving someone elses on a forum? That would be wild
Perhaps if you have a point it would also work without misquoting me?
Additionally my thoughts on speed are not arbitrary, like yours they are honed from decades of experience of crash and fine free driving in multiple countries.
They are in fact based on rather more experience than a blanket 'today 90 kmh is unsafe so all 90s will become 80 kmh zones from now on.

Your premise is also invalid, if my 'arbitrary thoughts and go whatever speed you want in any country you want' happen to be within the posted speed limits I don't see a mechanism to be 'caught, fined and licence suspended and withdrawn' - do you?


I appreciate the bluster and passion but it seems you really need to read my post again and try to understand what I'm saying. I think you also missed my use of 'under - stand' above, a quick scan of Blacks Law Dictionary or similar may enlighten you to my meaning there.

Do you Under Stand?

BTW when the government starts obeying it's own laws perhaps there will be more respect for them, but both our and the French governments lawlessness in Syria (not to mention Libya and Yemen) demonstrate a two-tier system, I'm not sure why we should be taking to lower tier of slavish devotion for a self appointed hierarchy of serial law breakers. Legally we're not even a member of the EU right now.

Maybe your opinion is correct but it seems you're having to tell me and others to understand it. If that's the case perhaps your explanation is at fault.
AFAIK, this is the definition of

arbitrary
/ˈɑːbɪt(rə)ri/Submit
Learn to pronounce
adjective
1.
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure you undoubtedly will do, where are laws that aren't common laws, arbitrary including speeding
As I said, by all means you travel at whatever speed you want to and yes some speed limits appear wrong because of the conditions but I can't see that is a viable argument in the courts.
If speed limits were arbitrary and not law, how come drivers get fined, points, banned etc.
Possibly, well certainly in your opinion, you're right but possibly you can explain it properly so that me and others understand it better and can we put the argument to the courts that speed limits aren't law but just arbitrary?

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[Allanm]

I don't know how that works TBH, as that's not what I said at all.
Maybe you thought I said it, but I didn't, have another read.
.

I reread it, then reread it again. I can’t see how you said anything different to what I saw the first time.
Seems I’m not the only one who reads things differently to what you thought you wrote.

And just so we all understand another of your comments, why isn’t the UK legally in the EU anymore?

 

[EX51SSS]

Of course it's my opinion, why would I be giving someone elses on a forum? That would be wild
Perhaps if you have a point it would also work without misquoting me?

I have always copied your post as above so I can hardly mis quote your own words

 

[EuroTrotters]

time to join the Gillet Jaunes

 

[gus-lopez]

The speed loimits were reduced from 90 to 80 in France to'supposedly' reduce the death toll.
It was pointed out at the time that it wasn't speeding that was the problem but drunks.

Having read thus far, I think I had better throw my cards in at this point and maybe vow never to drive in France again.
I will put my hands up and state for the record that I would find it difficult to say the least to maintain the same speed in the MH for mile after mile trying to get safely between two long distance points on a map.
The reason that I would find this so difficult is because of up & down hills in a heavy van, observing other road users, and making allowances for them to either get past me, or stay away from me.
I am probably over conscious of getting off the mark away from traffic lights and roundabouts, so as not to make THEM inpatient and maybe encouraging them into doing something risky in an overtaking manoeuvre to get past me.( I can make allowances, but I cant think for them)
I always try to keep pace "Go With The Flow"with all traffic through towns, and rural areas, that said I do always leave a sensible gap between me and the vehicle in front, almost guessing their next manoeuvre in that they may well brake, not use their indicators before turning, or even undertake when ever possible just to gain few places up the traffic lane, normally carving up me or someone else in the process.
Therefore if I am going to get nicked & fined for driving at 1-3KPH= 1MPH over the speed limit, albeit driving as safely and being as considerate as I can be to all other road users, in all traffic conditions...then I had better not go to France in the van....Sad innit?
Les

I'm the same but in Uk as well.

IMO many of the french cameras dont seem to have much to do with safety, there are too many of them on downhill stretches of motorway.

I regularly get flashed by the one on the A28 by Abbeville, presumably because it thinks I might be a lorry. I'm usually doing under 100kph.[/QUOTE
I even found one to taking pictures at a left turn where you have to exit right, & wait to cross, with a 30 limit yet only enough exit & road for 3 vehicles, so meaning people would have to be below 30kph on a 90kph road before exiting or risk being flashed. & so inconveniencing all those on the main road. Just money making scum that should all be necklaced.

 

[EX51SSS]

Strangely enough, my sat nav always bleeps as I'm going on a slip road either exiting a major road or motorway and on. Now, it says I need to be doing 30 MPH. I wonder if it knows something we don't.

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[Allanm]

I don’t understand why people get so worked up about speed limits.
If you can’t drive from one place to another keeping within the speed limits, then maybe you shouldn’t be driving....anywhere.
Your speedo will read higher than you are travelling unless it has been calibrated for accuracy, giving you a safe margin for error.
The vast majority of French speed cameras will have warning signs some time before the camera. Same as in Spain
All roads with a speed camera on will have advance speed limit signs or signs along the road.

A speed limit is as it says, a limit, not a target.

Common sense tells you that your vehicle will speed up as it goes downhill, many speed cameras are on downhill sections as this is the easiest place to go over the speed limit.
Drive within the speed limits and you won’t get a ticket for speeding.
And finally, i am not advocating or supporting the need for speed cameras, I hate speed cameras as much as anyone, but you can’t drive at speeds that you yourself feel appropriate for the road if it is in violation of the speed limit and if a camera catches you, you shouldn’t complain when you get a ticket, however long it takes to get to you.

 

[gus-lopez]

Strangely enough, my sat nav always bleeps as I'm going on a slip road either exiting a major road or motorway and on. Now, it says I need to be doing 30 MPH. I wonder if it knows something we don't.

If you are commenting on my post above from crossing the dotted line to exit on to the slip road signed at 30kph , it would be too late. The total distance from exit around curve to stop line was barely 20 metres. The instant you crossed the dotted line the camera flashed .I sat & watched .

I don’t understand why people get so worked up about speed limits.
If you can’t drive from one place to another keeping within the speed limits, then maybe you shouldn’t be driving....anywhere.

It is a fact that a blanket 80 kph on some roads which are perfectly straight for kms & with no junctions is ludicrous & in no way enhanvces safety. Just money making scams.

The vast majority of French speed cameras will have warning signs some time before the camera. Same as in Spain

In 80,000kms I've never seen one signed in France & in spain they certainly aren't signed. you have to go on the DGT site which will actually tell you at what km marker post they are sited at along with the speed they are set at.

All roads with a speed camera on will have advance speed limit signs or signs along the road.

None here.

Yes they might put up random signs stating " velocity controlled by radar" etc; but that is just like random camera signs in the UK where nothing exists.
I have no problem with speed cameras either in France or Spain as I know they are just revenue generators & here in spain I know at what speeds I need to be below to ensure it is a fine ,less 50% for resident, & no points.
For example on the autovia with a 120kph limit you need to be over 151kph to get in to the points brackets.

Whereas in the UK the scum want it both ways . Fine you for speeding & give you points.

 

[jongood]

I don’t understand why people get so worked up about speed limits.
If you can’t drive from one place to another keeping within the speed limits, then maybe you shouldn’t be driving....anywhere.
Your speedo will read higher than you are travelling unless it has been calibrated for accuracy, giving you a safe margin for error.
The vast majority of French speed cameras will have warning signs some time before the camera. Same as in Spain
All roads with a speed camera on will have advance speed limit signs or signs along the road.

A speed limit is as it says, a limit, not a target.

Common sense tells you that your vehicle will speed up as it goes downhill, many speed cameras are on downhill sections as this is the easiest place to go over the speed limit.
Drive within the speed limits and you won’t get a ticket for speeding.
And finally, i am not advocating or supporting the need for speed cameras, I hate speed cameras as much as anyone, but you can’t drive at speeds that you yourself feel appropriate for the road if it is in violation of the speed limit and if a camera catches you, you shouldn’t complain when you get a ticket, however long it takes to get to you.

I try and keep to the speed limits but since the reduction I'm increasingly seeing incidents on French RN's where drivers are right on the back bumper of each other, particularly the coaches.

 

[Clarky]

Last year, after the limit in France dropped to 80kph, most drivers seemed to comply. There was also a great deal of ‘bunching’ on the long straight roads, not good for safe driving.

On this trip I have noticed that far fewer drivers are sticking to 80, most seem to have reverted to 90kph or just under. Sticking rigidly to the speed limit means you are likely to get a queue of frustrated Frenchmen up you chuff.
You do not want frustrated Frenchmen anywhere near you chuff.

As some others have said, on those long straight country roads 80kph seems daft and trying to keep to that speed just seems to be more difficult. Our Fiat based van feels much happier cruising at around 85-87kph.

I hope there are no unwelcome demands on the doormat when we get back home in a months time.

Richard.

 

[Northernraider]

I better phone my mum and see if there's any French letters arrived

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[Allanm]

In 80,000kms I've never seen one signed in France & in spain they certainly aren't signed. you have to go on the DGT site which will actually tell you at what km marker post they are sited at along with the speed they are set at.

All I can say is what I see not what you have seen ( or not ) I noticed warning signs in Spain ahead of every speed camera on our recent trip across Northern Spain to Portugal. In France, if you see a warning sign, more often than not, there will be a camera.
They won’t point out the exact position as you may be suggesting, but there are certainly warning signs and they are certainly there.

 

[GPW]

I reread it, then reread it again. I can’t see how you said anything different to what I saw the first time.

At no time did I say I condoned breaking a speed limit, or that I deliberately broke a speed limit therefore I can't see why you thought I did. What I DID say is that I may still get a fine, it only takes one mistake in the wrong place to get a fine today in France and I can't guarantee that didn't happen, despite my vigilance.

If you can find a single post of mine where you think I did please post it up and I will be able to clarify the precise meaning of the works. TIA!

And just so we all understand another of your comments, why isn’t the UK legally in the EU anymore?

Thanks for that, this is a classic example of misquoting. 'Anymore' implies that we used to be in the EU and not what I said at all. I basically said right now we are not legally in the EU. That's quite different as there is no event or date associated with my statement.

Our membershio of the EU has never been legal and nothing has ever changed that.
There are various articles about this, this is a random one for you:
http://www.vernoncoleman.com/euillegally.html

@EX51SSS Perhaps you used to be a policeman? Regardless you seem to be interpreting peoples issues with the speed limits as evidence of law breaking and fines. This is not the case, I have never recieved a speeding ticket and have no desire to give my money to lawless parasitic governments via speed checks, but that doesn't make them 'legal' and me 'illegal'. Diversity of thought may be under threat but isn't dead yet.

I'm sure you appreciate that the law should be for everyone, and while I'm sure you feel a fine for going 54kmh in a 50kmh limit is well deserved remember that Theresa May broke the UN charter and therefore International Law when she supported the bombing of Syria, and continues to break domestic UK law by allowing the sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia that are used to blow the civilians of Yemen apart, even if they are in school buses at the time. These crimes have real victims including dead and mangled children.

Either the law should be obeyed or it shouldn't, we've lost a lot of our rights since Magna Carta but it seems the very governments who seek to fine us for speeding ignore important laws established by the UN, ICC and Nuremberg Trials without hinderance or consequence.
This is why you'll find that some of us have no respect for hypocritical, corrupt authorities run for their own benefit, especially when we are hunted down for mindless infractions of victimless crimes.

The French told us their 80kmh was for safety, even as they swarm over Syria blowing people like us to pieces merely for being in the wrong place (a source of oil) at the wrong time (when the US wanted to invade it).


In summary then I'll re-iterate that France has become a autoroute only pass-through country, it's a shame but simply means Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany etc will get more of my tourist €s, market forces in action

 

[Allanm]

Do you know, if someone reads something other than what you mean, into what you say, then perhaps you need to change how you say it.
I never once said you condoned breaking the speed limit. I don’t know where you got that from!
This thread is about speed cameras and speed limits.
You wrote
“ Of course I still may have got caught on some minor road and haven't received the invoice yet, but I can safely say I'll not be doing much touring in France while they are being juvenile and stupid about us using their roads.“

You are talking about driving in France and whether or not you went through a speed camera then state they are being juvenile and stupid about you using their roads which to me and everybody else means you are referring to their method of policing their roads.

And, if you think driving in Spain will allow you to worry less about speed limits and speed cameras, read this....

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/n332.es/2015/06/12/the-secrets-of-the-radar/amp/

As to your comment about UK and EU.
“I basically said right now we are not legally in the EU”.
Using the term “ right now” implies there was a time previously that the UK was.

See how confusing you made that?

 

[EX51SSS]

Perhaps you used to be a policeman? Regardless you seem to be interpreting peoples issues with the speed limits as evidence of law breaking and fines. This is not the case, I have never recieved a speeding ticket and have no desire to give my money to lawless parasitic governments via speed checks, but that doesn't make them 'legal' and me 'illegal'. Diversity of thought may be under threat but isn't dead yet.

Sorry but I've not even read anything in your rant except the first line. That's how good your assumptions are.
The basis is that you CAN have your own opinion but you CANNOT have your own facts.
Now I'm going to ignore anything you put certainly on this thread because just by the first sentence in what you said, your opinion means absolutely nothing to me and those members who have met me will also agree, that is better than a comedy sketch, probably Monty Python's Flying Circus is more factual than your assumptions.
Enjoy the rest of you rants
On a personal note and I'm trying not to be personal but you are,. I deleted my personal comment regarding your attack on me
Good bye

 

[Barclaybasher]

The only way to travel in France is SLOWLY..... unless you want to pay

Fed up with ever changing speed limits, roundabouts, traffic calming - speed up, down -....... changing gears, watching the speedo instead of the road.......no fun - just a pain!

Have given up driving through France to get to Spain..........unless the ferries direct to Spain aren't running !

Au revoir France

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[rosalan]

Verbosity lives
Like several others I had come to read the speed on my SatNav, but now after reading all the above and with due consideration, when in France I should stick to the vans own speedometer.

 

[Wee Bold Davy]

I know it's a real pain, but look at the bright side. I agree with @buttons If it happened here you'd have points on your licence for the next 4 years with insurance implications

 

[GPW]

Sorry but I've not even read anything in your rant except the first line.

No worries, everyone is different.

Liberté, égalité, fraternité! Democracy!

None of which feature in modern day France. Lets see if the Yellow vests achieve something for the French people against the oppressive Macron Regime.

 

[GPW]

The only way to travel in France is SLOWLY..... unless you want to pay

Fed up with ever changing speed limits, roundabouts, traffic calming - speed up, down -....... changing gears, watching the speedo instead of the road.......no fun - just a pain!

Have given up driving through France to get to Spain..........unless the ferries direct to Spain aren't running !

Au revoir France

Welcome to 'Le Club'!

Before last year I'd never paid for a single Peage, but the last trip at 80lmh was exactly as you found so the rest - pretty much up to the Spanish border was done on the Peage. Escaping the threat of persecution was so nice it was worth every cent LOL, on the normal roads I felt like bait, braking down each hill and changing gear to chug up each hill, ridiculous, tiring, bad for fuel economy and saw nothing of France beyond my German made Speedo LOL .
I used to chug along at 80-85 and swoop across the valleys at 90kmh - can't do that now thanks to mobile radars hiding at the bottom.

So that's an effective €100-200 discount from the Santander/Bilbao ferry right there

In the last few years a number of UK roads have done the same, from 60 to 50mph even on decent stretches of the A10, I wonder if the lower limit is also an EU thing?

These limits are less democracy (demo = people, cracy = power), more 'police state'.