Hymer pursuing the cheapening of their best models

[Lenny HB]

Is it true that you've just put a deposit down on an Autotrail Lenny

 

[GPW]

On a positive note it's nice to see the rest of the world trying to copy the UK and reproduce the same crappy standards as found in a typical Brtiish van.

Is this still true though? I've seen some rough Rapidos but also some rather nice IH and even the Swift 604 escape I looked at while having Lunch at Brownhills seemed quite well put together.

If you ignore the Autotrail and Bailey brands is British still low quality?

 

[StephDeLux]

Is this still true though? I've seen some rough Rapidos but also some rather nice IH and even the Swift 604 escape I looked at while having Lunch at Brownhills seemed quite well put together.

If you ignore the Autotrail and Bailey brands is British still low quality?

Well, the general situation is grim on the continent too. I can think of only a few brands that are OK in my budget range:

• Carado. Really. I wouldn't buy it because it is build with a wood structure but it is well executed. It is a simple van solidly built. If you have realistic expectations, it will work as expected, no break down to expect. Sunlight are the same, same factory. Etrusco are the same, factory in Italy.
• Hymer. I know I've been pretty negative about Hymer but again, still a lot above average and should just work. Don't expect what we used to associate with Hymer anymore. But they kept PUAL, which is their major advantage. Still, something wrong is going on at the management level in my opinion.
• Eura-Mobil: good vans, solidly built, double floors, tough competition for Hymer in my opinion.
• Carthago: looks very good but definitely expensive.
• Malibu: Carthago's less expensive brand. Definitely not a budget brand. Good vans, much like Eura-Mobil but better designed and executed in my opinion. More expensive too.
• Frankia, Laika: I hear good things, but not many dealers. No idea really.
• A few PVC specialists, but that's another market altogether.

And ... that's it!

 

[GPW]

I found the 3 German brands of PVC
1. Burstner/Hymer
2. Weinsberg/Knaus
3. Globecar/Possl/Dethleffs

all similar in terms of materials, fit and finish.
For the brits though the surprise for me was Swift, couldn't really fault the 604 inside or out. No wood in the structure, no dodgy seams to keep the water out, nice fitout. Maybe that's why they are maknig so much money (According to Campervan magazine anyway!)

 

[StephDeLux]

I found the 3 German brands of PVC
1. Burstner/Hymer
2. Weinsberg/Knaus
3. Globecar/Possl/Dethleffs

all similar in terms of materials, fit and finish.
For the brits though the surprise for me was Swift, couldn't really fault the 604 inside or out. No wood in the structure, no dodgy seams to keep the water out, nice fitout. Maybe that's why they are maknig so much money (According to Campervan magazine anyway!)

You need to be pretty thin to feel comfortable taking a shower in the Bürstner/Hymer.

Knaus used to be good. At Düsseldorf last year they introduced a new generation of PVC. Incredibly flimsy furnishing.

Pössl/Globecar: pretty good for PVC.

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[Lenny HB]

Carado. Really. I wouldn't buy it because it is build with a wood structure but it is well executed. It is a simple van solidly built. If you have realistic expectations, it will work as expected, no break down to expect. Sunlight are the same, same factory. Etrusco are the same, factory in Italy.

Carado & Sunlight factory is in Dresden, Germany.

 

[GPW]

You need to be pretty thin to feel comfortable taking a shower in the Bürstner/Hymer.

Knaus used to be good. At Düsseldorf last year they introduced a new generation of PVC. Incredibly flimsy furnishing.

Pössl/Globecar: pretty good for PVC.

True, I found the Burstner shower a bit constricted for headroom and spreadroom, I didn't really like the drop-down sink that always looks like the release handle has fallen off and you can't store anything.
The Weinsberg was a small shower and the Knaus had a weird teleport tube which meant you had to block the corridor to have a shave or use the toilet, probably great for showers though. The Globecar I ended up with had quite a generous bathroom and I was rather surprised how easy the shower was in practice, possibly as it has good headroom and a weighted curtain that didn't really get in the way.

The most usable shower seemed to be in a Wildax as a wetroom TBH.
The most cramped was the Rapido/Dreamer 55 with the cabinet door, it all looked so wonderful until I tried to stand inside it and the Rapido was literally falling to pieces in the showroom.

 

[raysalaugh]

Is it true that you've just put a deposit down on an Autotrail Lenny

I've got some wet wipes if he has.

 

[Steadycam]

The problem now is most of the foreign manufacturers own nearly all the British crap manufacturers. Hymer are churning out leaky vans near me (Elddis/Compass) with the so called Solid constriction falling apart. The whole industry is making rubbish. Van conversions are the way to go.

Unless like us they dont completely seal the Ariel on the roof and creat a PVC with a leaking roof.

 

[Paddywack]

Unless like us they dont completely seal the Ariel on the roof and creat a PVC with a leaking roof.

You've come across Moto-Trek then?

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[solar bob]

Am I right in thinking that Hymer is now American owned. Correct me if i`m wrong i get confused more easily these days.

 

[Lenny HB]

Am I right in thinking that Hymer is now American owned. Correct me if i`m wrong i get confused more easily these days.

Yep.

 

[Jenka]

Just to offer some comfort to British made vans,I have a 2017 Bailey 794 with 30000 miles on the clock and the only issues I have had within the habition/ body area has been blinds and a few niggles soon resolved under warranty and all of these parts came from continental manufactures and also fitted by the so called 'vorsprung durch technik' brigade!! I have also met a few disgruntled owners of continental vans so it's not all one way !
Best of British ???

 

[wiljoy]

Yep.

Unless like us they dont completely seal the Ariel on the roof and creat a PVC with a leaking roof.

They do much better than that. No sealant to the rooftop front and rear and that's why they are getting 90% damp. They also have the nerve to say that it's not part of the Solid constriction warranty.

 

[StephDeLux]

Apparently not just one model:




Would that mean the entire Exsis range is to be replaced by that simplified variant?

In the mean time, the link I posted is still working, but the new Exsis and Tramp S lines are not advertised anymore on the Models page on Hymer website.

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[PeteH]

I would expect that all the manufacturers get their fair share of "Friday" vans?. Same as any other maker of "consumer" goods.? I have never had a "NEW" van (not won the lottery yet ? ) and to be fair, any issues I have had are due to not having done "due diligence" at handover, not asking the right questions of the Seller or having independent checks done. Build quality will always be down to cost, Labour is the biggest factor in any (Western) manufacturing process, (unless you live in China or some other similar Poo hole, where life is cheap and labour likewise) So the temptation of "western" makers to cut back on Q-C and employ a workforce with limited (Cheap) skills on a de facto "piecework" / "Zero Hours"system is almost a given. As always, you "get`s what you pay for".

 

[Pausim]

“Friday” vans? With a product that takes 10 days to build there is bound to be a bit of Friday in all of them.

 

[Lenny HB]

Am I right in understanding that this chassis is specially designed for motor homes? Is it a brand new design, or one which is already being used? They 're claiming in the catalogue that it is 'optimal in terms of cost, comfort and safety'

All Hymer say in the press release is "The new Exsis has a new chassis in the form of the Fiat original frame, "
As the Exsis has always been on the Al-Ko it would be fair to assume they will be building on the standard Fiat Camping Car chassis. I expect a cost saving exercise as when other manufacturers have offered the Al-Ko chassis as an option over the Fiat they charge around €2000 extra.


The main difference between the Camping car chassis and the standard Fiat Chassis cab are:

The longitudinal box sections are single height allowing the converters body to sit lower.
The rear axle has a wider track and the addition of an anti-roll bar.
The cab is stronger as it is designed for the body to be mounted directly on it (Chassis cab the converter has to cut the roof away).

Our first Hymer a 2008 Tramp 654SL Gold Edition had the Camping Car chassis, handling was good and the ride not bad, but did suffer with ground clearance issues in some areas.

 

[StephDeLux]

I would add that the Fiat chassis prevents you of course from getting the Al-Ko suspension upgrades like the ALC and full pneumatic.

You still can get full pneumatic from VB Air and GoldSshmitt. But the Al-Ko full pneumatic adds 55 kilos while the Goldschmitt adds 78 kilos.