Hymer lesuire batterie

[Pausim]

running an efoy means another fuel to carry .A suitcase gennie running on gas always seems a better option and cheaper

Cheaper but not as quiet.

 

[grego87]

I have a Hymer GCS too, also with 2x 95Ah leisure batteries and the same Schaudt components (Electroblock, Booster, Charger).

Can you just replace both AGM batteries to LiFePO4 batteries? Or are there any other components you'd need to change?

 

[KimSteve]

Hi hoping someone with more knowledge than me can explain what I have and if it's suitable for off grid camping.
I recently purchased a Hymer Grand Canyon S fitted with two 95 amp hr leisure batteries with the following Schaudt equipment.
Charger LAS 1218 S
Electroblock EBL 30
Booster WA121545
All instruction are in German, so not sure exactly what they do?
Plus 200 watt solar panels.
Only used the van once so far off grid and after three days batteries were reading 25 % on the control panel.
Admittedly solar input was minimal as it
rained solidly and we ran the diesel heating for long periods, the van also has a compressor fridge.
Am I expecting to much of this set up and if so any suggestions to extend battery use before resorting to electric hook up.

The solar panels need minimum light to offer charge to your leisure batteries. That does the panel say they are charging at? Maximum I think should be 14.3v. Have you checked the batteries, it might be they are past their sell by date.

 

[cmj01]

I've got the same system on a Hymer MLT 580 and can't help with your question unfortunately.

But I do have a related one of my own which is should these sort of systems be left on permanent hookup when stored and not in use? Or is it best to run them down, store at 50% like other lithium ion batteries? What do others do?

Many thanks,

Mike

 

[grego87]

Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, or what I'm missing. In order to change from the 2x95Ah AGM batteries to LiFePO4 batteries, it seems that they need to be charged at a constant voltage of between 14.2 and 14.6V (see for example Bulltron batteries here).

I've gone through the Schaudt manuals, and found the following:

The EBL 30 electroblock has a setting for "Gel" batteries that is 14.4V (rather than the 14.7V for AGM) that seems adequate. The WA121545 booster also has a setting for lithium batteries that provides 14.4V. However the LAS1218-S charger (which I believe is used only for when the camper is plugged in to a mains 230V?) doesn't seem to have such a setting, and it only provides 14.7V.

This I presume is not good for the LiFePO4 batteries and should be avoided? Or can the LAS1218-S somehow still be used? I see that Schaudt also has a LAS1218-2 booster, which does have an option for different settings for different battery types. Would it be better to replace the LAS1218-S with the LAS1218-2?

Also, when I replace my 2x95Ah AGM's, is there a maximum battery capacity I can go with when switching to LiFePO4? I was thinking of going for 2x160Ah Bulltrons, as the physical size of those is almost identical to the current Varta AGM's I have.

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[paddymcc]

The EBL 30 is (I think) a 240v charger, the LAS 1218 is an additional 240v charger which will plug into the EBL 30 to provide an additional 18A of current when on 240v to the leisure battery. If the 1218 S has a lithium setting that would be fine. You could then disable the charger in the EBL 30 by taking out the 20A fuse so that only lithium profile charging occurs as although gel profile charging is ok it's not ideal (to do with float charging I think).
I have found however that I don't need to use the EBL 101( in my case) for 240v charging at all as the sole and B2B provide adequate charging so you may find you don't either. Alternatively you could buy a Victron charger with lithium settings and run that through the additional charger block on the EBL (or run it directly to the habitation battery avoiding the EBL)
The control panel on mine (DT201) normally shows the Ah of the leisure battery but it only goes up to 180Ah max so doesn't give an accurate reading any more through the EBL shunt of the battery capacity. This doesn't really matter as I can see the voltages which are accurate and I have a BMS with Bluetooth on my 230Ah Roamer battery to give me an accurate SOC .

 

[nabsim]

Schaudt do have the gel setting as said, before I got to changing my chargers I used the two Schaudt chargers okay but I would disconnect them as the Lifepo4 got near 100% to avoid float problems. Site EHU very rare for me but I do connect a genny when needed to run the battery chargers

 

[autorouter]

The control panel on mine (DT201) normally shows the Ah of the leisure battery but it only goes up to 180Ah max so doesn't give an accurate reading any more through the EBL shunt of the battery capacity.

On my DT201 I can set the battery capacity to over 400Ah at least. If the 'nominal' capacity is set to 230Ah, then the display SOC will show 80% of that, ie 184Ah. This is to avoid discharging below the 20% level, which is bad for lead-acid batteries. When the display reads 0%, there is still 20% left in the batteries. Once you know that, you can work round it, but the SOC, ie the amp-hours going in and out of the batteries, will be accurate. Assuming all the charging goes through the EBL, of course.

 

[paddymcc]

Thank

On my DT201 I can set the battery capacity to over 400Ah at least. If the 'nominal' capacity is set to 230Ah, then the display SOC will show 80% of that, ie 184Ah. This is to avoid discharging below the 20% level, which is bad for lead-acid batteries. When the display reads 0%, there is still 20% left in the batteries. Once you know that, you can work round it, but the SOC, ie the amp-hours going in and out of the batteries, will be accurate. Assuming all the charging goes through the EBL, of course.

Thanks for that! You learn something new every day. I thought I had read in the Hymer manual that 2x90Ah batteries was the max allowed so hadn't tried altering that parameter. So if I pretended that my 230Ah lithium was 460Ah the battery cut off would occur at 20% which would effectively be 10% SOC of the lithium?

 

[grego87]

The EBL 30 is (I think) a 240v charger, the LAS 1218 is an additional 240v charger which will plug into the EBL 30 to provide an additional 18A of current when on 240v to the leisure battery. If the 1218 S has a lithium setting that would be fine. You could then disable the charger in the EBL 30 by taking out the 20A fuse so that only lithium profile charging occurs as although gel profile charging is ok it's not ideal (to do with float charging I think).
I have found however that I don't need to use the EBL 101( in my case) for 240v charging at all as the sole and B2B provide adequate charging so you may find you don't either. Alternatively you could buy a Victron charger with lithium settings and run that through the additional charger block on the EBL (or run it directly to the habitation battery avoiding the EBL)
The control panel on mine (DT201) normally shows the Ah of the leisure battery but it only goes up to 180Ah max so doesn't give an accurate reading any more through the EBL shunt of the battery capacity. This doesn't really matter as I can see the voltages which are accurate and I have a BMS with Bluetooth on my 230Ah Roamer battery to give me an accurate SOC .

Thanks for this!

The EBL30 is the one that has a setting for gel (14.4V) but the LAS 1218-S does not (it seems). A different version, the LAS 1218-2 does have a 14.4V setting.

What about the gel charging profile is not ideal for lithium, you mention something with the float charging? What would be ideal in terms of V and A?

I also read that some chargers have a maximum Ah capacity they can deal with, how is that? Wouldn't the battery just keep charging if it's fed an adequate voltage (14.4V) and a certain Amperage? But it would just take longer?

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[autorouter]

So if I pretended that my 230Ah lithium was 460Ah the battery cut off would occur at 20% which would effectively be 10% SOC of the lithium?

I don't think that would work as you would expect. You want it to read 0% when you have taken out 90% of 230Ah, ie 230 x 0.9 = 207Ah.

You want a pretend figure that will make 207Ah to be 80%. That would be (207 / 80) x 100 = 259Ah.

So if you set the nominal Ah to 259Ah, it will read 0% when you've taken out 259 x 0.8 = 207Ah, as required.

 

[autorouter]

What about the gel charging profile is not ideal for lithium, you mention something with the float charging? What would be ideal in terms of V and A?

Just applying a random voltage is not the same as float charging. A lead-acid battery has a 'resting voltage' of about 12.6V. If a voltage of less than the resting voltage is applied, then charge will flow out of the battery. If just equal to the resting voltage, nothing flows in or out. If more than the resting voltage, then charge will flow into the battery. The idea of float charging is that just enough charge flows in to make up for the internal self-discharge of the battery. Typically 13.4V is about right, but it depends on the battery type, and the acid concentration.

If you look at the chart, you will see that a LiFePO4 battery has for example a resting voltage of 13.4V at 99% SOC. So if you applied a lead acid float voltage of 13.4V to this lithium battery, it wouldn't float charge it, nothing would happen, nothing would flow in or out.

13.6V would take it to 100%, and anything higher would start to properly float charge the battery, which for lithiums is definitely not a good idea. Lithiums do not need float charging, and doing so will degrade them. But a typical lead-acid float charge voltage won't float charge lithiums.