How to generate hydrogen at home.

[Coolcats]

Bus services in England face axe as end to emergency Covid funding looms​

Ministers urged to extend grants as funding gap and driver shortages prompt operators to draft list of route cuts

So when you consider all technology is politically shaped and given the current state of the economy why wouldn't something like you have posted highlight cancelations to orders and other cuts.

Hydrogen will happen Gromett

Probably not funny for those whose services will be cut Gromett

 

[Coolcats]

1st what have bus cuts got to do with choosing between hydrogen and batteries for a service that hasn't been cut.
The cancellation I linked had nothing to do with cuts, it was to do with operational costs.

Hydrogen will happen Coolcats, just not in transport

indeed and investment, companies cut services as they are uneconomic they will sweat their assets as long as they can. Bus, Train, comercial and heavy vehicles such as combine harvesters are ideal for hydrogen. I see the link you chose was pro-electric (battery) and the train companies key customer is Rio Tinto who are as keen on this type of technology just as the petrochemical ones are for Hydrogen. How long does it take to charge that train ? Comuter trains and bus's need to be moving all the time which is where Hydrogen comes in, its easy and fast to refuel. even in the middle of a cornfield when harvesting 24/7 I cant see a farmer taking the Harvester back to the barn to re-charge.

 

[Gromett]

Probably not funny for those whose services will be cut Gromett

Did you see me make a joke about it or try to be funny?

As per usual you are go off on a wild tangent well away from the point.

 

[Gromett]

indeed and investment, companies cut services as they are uneconomic they will sweat their assets as long as they can. Bus, Train, comercial and heavy vehicles such as combine harvesters are ideal for hydrogen. I see the link you chose was pro-electric (battery) and the train companies key customer is Rio Tinto who are as keen on this type of technology just as the petrochemical ones are for Hydrogen. How long does it take to charge that train ? Comuter trains and bus's need to be moving all the time which is where Hydrogen comes in, its easy and fast to refuel. even in the middle of a cornfield when harvesting 24/7 I cant see a farmer taking the Harvester back to the barn to re-charge.

Again changing the subject. This is about a bus company who had a choice between hydrogen and battery and chose battery.

As for Rio Tinto, they are a mining company. Don't you think they would be more keen on hydrogen made from steam reformation of natural gas? Or do you think they looked at the use case and decided purely on economic terms which was best for their bottom line?
As for train charging times, how long do you think it takes to load and unload one of their trains?

You then go totally off the subject again. I have never said batteries are the answer with respect to contracting farmers. However I honestly can't see hydrogen being the answer either.

 

[Coolcats]

Did you see me make a joke about it or try to be funny?

As per usual you are go off on a wild tangent well away from the point.

The icon you used on the post was this

the Icon is normally used when someone is amused or thinks a post is funny, hence my response.

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[68c]

even in the middle of a cornfield when harvesting 24/7 I cant see a farmer taking the Harvester back to the barn to re-charge.

The farmer will use his frontloader to bring the spare battery from the barn and slot it into the harvester. Being sensible all his farm vehicles will use the same quick change battery setup.

 

[Coolcats]

The farmer will use his frontloader to bring the spare battery from the barn and slot it into the harvester. Being sensible all his farm vehicles will use the same quick change battery setup.

Maybe maybe not time will tell, but that also means a Farmer would be locked into one manufacturer

 

[Gromett]

The icon you used on the post was this View attachment 574640 the Icon is normally used when someone is amused or thinks a post is funny, hence my response.View attachment 574644

I was laughing at this;

Hydrogen will happen Gromett

 

[Gromett]

The farmer will use his frontloader to bring the spare battery from the barn and slot it into the harvester. Being sensible all his farm vehicles will use the same quick change battery setup.

I suggest this previously along with the suggestion of a recharge trailer or a trailer carrying batteries.

 

[Coolcats]

I suggest this previously along with the suggestion of a recharge trailer or a trailer carrying batteries.

Clearly additional work/effort for farmers and how many batteries are going to have to be swapped out during a harvesting day? How many additional personnel are require it will add time and costs. My guess is Farmers may just hold on to their ice powers machinery for some time yet.

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[Coolcats]

I was laughing at this;

Context is everything Gromett, So to say you was not laughing at the post was not correct. But thank you for clarifying

 

[TDub49]

It's easy to make hydrogen. But it's hard to get it up to a pressure that makes it useful for storage. And a lot of energy is lost in the conversion to hydrogen and then again when it's consumed, whereas batteries are very efficient. So hydrogen vehicles get much worse km/kW compared to battery EVs. So unless you've got a massive electricity surplus, hydrogen doesn't make sense for a lot of cases.

True that batteries are more efficient but they require massive mining efforts (and destruction of the environment) around the world to supply the raw materials and unless the technology changes radically, are ultimately reliant on a finite resource. At least hydrogen is limitless . . . .

 

[Guigsy]

True that batteries are more efficient but they require massive mining efforts (and destruction of the environment) around the world to supply the raw materials and unless the technology changes radically, are ultimately reliant on a finite resource. At least hydrogen is limitless . . . .

Hydrogen fuel cells are not completely materials free. You still need catalysts, which are normally pretty rare metals. And you need a lot more solar panels and wind farms to make up for the loss of efficiency from using hydrogen.

 

[Gromett]

True that batteries are more efficient but they require massive mining efforts (and destruction of the environment) around the world to supply the raw materials and unless the technology changes radically, are ultimately reliant on a finite resource. At least hydrogen is limitless . . . .

The raw materials in batteries are mainly aluminium, copper, nickel and iron in Iron Phosphate batteries. Very common and not finite in any sense of the practical sense of the word.

 

[Gromett]

True that batteries are more efficient but they require massive mining efforts (and destruction of the environment) around the world to supply the raw materials and unless the technology changes radically, are ultimately reliant on a finite resource. At least hydrogen is limitless . . . .

You do know that a hydrogen fuel cell uses extremely expensive and much rarer metals such as platinum and palladium, Then there is trace minerals such as molybdenum and many more?

You do know that for electrolysis you would need to generate at least 5x as much electric (best case scenario) which means more wind turbines and batteries for storage to power them than if you just used batteries.
Not to mention the expense...

Hydrogen fuel cells are not the holy grail...

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[TDub49]

You do know that a hydrogen fuel cell uses extremely expensive and much rarer metals such as platinum and palladium, Then there is trace minerals such as molybdenum and many more?

You do know that for electrolysis you would need to generate at least 5x as much electric (best case scenario) which means more wind turbines and batteries for storage to power them than if you just used batteries.
Not to mention the expense...

Hydrogen fuel cells are not the holy grail...

Maybe not, but then nor are batteries . . . . despite Elon Musk's masterful command of the market. From the environmental / sustainability perspective the answer is less individualised transport but we're a long way from that.

In the meantime instead of putting all our eggs in the battery basket, we should be looking at developing a mixed economy energy wise. Hydrogen power has been behind the curve as far as development is concerned but increasing investment is catching it up and more finding efficient alternatives to the PGMs used in fuel cells and in production of liquid hydrogen.