How much lithium is enough?

[autorouter]

I also think it depends where and when you are using your motorhome and for how long. France/Spain/Germany etc is dead simple to get a cheap fill up of electric, maybe 5 euros a fill up, if organised. whereas UK you need to go in a campsite and thats going to cost 20 quiddish (so I am told).

That's why I charge my leisure batteries (600Ah lithium) with an EV charge point. You can get a cable that has a Type 2 EV charge connector on one end, and a round blue CEE connector on the other end, to fit into your motorhome EHU inlet. There is an electronics module built into the cable to handle the messaging comms required by the EV charge point. It can request standard single phase 230V mains from the charge point.

A Type 2 EV charge point can provide up to 7kW of 230V mains power, ie 32A, which is twice the power of a standard 16A campsite hookup post. If your battery charger is big, it will still be less than 2000W (that's equivalent to about 140A at 14V). So there is still plenty of power available for mains appliances. You could stop at an EV point and use the kettle, microwave, air fryer etc while still charging your batteries at full blast.

For me, finding a charger for a couple of hours, maybe while shopping and cooking a meal, is better than finding a campsite with hookup, and paying for all the extra facilities that I don't need anyway.

 

[suavecarve]

That's why I charge my leisure batteries (600Ah lithium) with an EV charge point. You can get a cable that has a Type 2 EV charge connector on one end, and a round blue CEE connector on the other end, to fit into your motorhome EHU inlet. There is an electronics module built into the cable to handle the messaging comms required by the EV charge point. It can request standard single phase 230V mains from the charge point.

A Type 2 EV charge point can provide up to 7kW of 230V mains power, ie 32A, which is twice the power of a standard 16A campsite hookup post. If your battery charger is big, it will still be less than 2000W (that's equivalent to about 140A at 14V). So there is still plenty of power available for mains appliances. You could stop at an EV point and use the kettle, microwave, air fryer etc while still charging your batteries at full blast.

For me, finding a charger for a couple of hours, maybe while shopping and cooking a meal, is better than finding a campsite with hookup, and paying for all the extra facilities that I don't need anyway.

One of these ?

Pardon our interruption...

 

[MichaelT]

Thanks Lenny. Annoyingly the battery box will only take one (300ah) Fogstar, on its side with the handles cut off. That's why I'm checking on how much people have/ wish they had as it's easy to put one battery in, but harder to find places I'm happy to free up for two alongside ideally keeping the inverter in proximity to them.

I've got compactline 143 and have a ks 200a underseat battery in the box then a 280ah fogstar sitting on top connected to bus bars. Could probably get another fogstar on top if I wanted but fully charged they are 510ah so should be enough. Everything we cook is via electric as we don't have a oven.

 

[cyberyacht]

All these figures make my 240AH Lithium and 300W of solar seem positively abstemious.

 

[activecampers]

Lots of talk of b2b here....

Has anyone upgraded their alternator?! generally the newer vans with the factory converters kit as bigger alternator as standard, but not all. Bearing in mind lights, heated seats etc, you don't want to stress it too much.

(We have upgraded alternator as part of the factory build, but just use 30a b2b and thats fine for 300w solar (20A mppt) + 200AH lithium - but we don't use much excessive power and no kettle/air fryer/hair drier - but do charge 1x ebike (36v10ah)

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[jumar]

Lots of talk of b2b here....

Has anyone upgraded their alternator?! generally the newer vans with the factory converters kit as bigger alternator as standard, but not all. Bearing in mind lights, heated seats etc, you don't want to stress it too much.

(We have upgraded alternator as part of the factory build, but just use 30a b2b and thats fine for 300w solar (20A mppt) + 200AH lithium - but we don't use much excessive power and no kettle/air fryer/hair drier - but do charge 1x ebike (36v10ah)

And charge the eBike whilst on the move is an added bonus...

 

[JockandRita]

Thanks all - I think the answer is 2 x 300Ah in that case. Just need to decide where to put them now.....

That's what we've gone with, supported by 320w of solar and a 60A B2B.
The original CBE mains charger will remain......... for now at least.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[autorouter]

One of these ?

Pardon our interruption...

NO!! This link is to a Type 2 to round blue CEE 32A connector, which is a bit bigger than the round blue CEE 16A connector used for the motorhome EHU inlet. The 32A and 16A connectors always look the same in web site pictures, but they are designed so that they definitely won't fit. The pins are a different size, and the keyway is at a different angle.

It's more or less right but not quite. If you had a 32A to 16A CEE adaptor, it would work OK with that. And because it's only half a metre, you would need a standard EHU cable to reach the motorhome.

I had to make my own cable, with the electronics bits, because there was nothing at all available. Now there seem to be several options.

There's the Juicy Brucie cable, one of the first to come up with a solution for motorhomes.

Juicy Brucie EV-Cable — Bruce Lauderdale

www.brucelauderdale.com

There are others, including ones like this:

Discharge Type 2 Plug EV Charging Station Converter Plug Adapter 16A IEC62196 YJ | eBay

Output current：16A. (Eure Type 2). Braided AN6 Dual Feed Carb Fuel Line Double Pump For 4150 Holley Carburetor EG. Left Side Power Tailgate Power Lift Support Struthz Fit Tesla Model 3 2021-23 EG. 1: Plug and play, compatible with IEC 62196 EV, RV, Scooter and more.

www.ebay.co.uk

I don't like this type, because it's not weatherproof. It connects OK to a UK 3-pin plug. However it doesn't connect properly to a continental 2-pin plug because the earth doesn't connect. This is quite common with travel adapters, which is why a lot of them don't get a CE rating.

 

[fishplug]

Thanks all - I think the answer is 2 x 300Ah in that case. Just need to decide where to put them now.....

As someone pointed out (somewhat expensively for me!) in another thread, Fogstar have some very good pricing for the black Friday sale at the moment.

The 280Ah are particularly good value - but I've gone for the 300 because more is always better

 

[suavecarve]

As someone pointed out (somewhat expensively for me!) in another thread, Fogstar have some very good pricing for the black Friday sale at the moment.

The 280Ah are particularly good value - but I've gone for the 300 because more is always better

I m currently (sic) in the process of changing my mind at these prices for Fogstar. Just gone out to measure a cupboard !

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[suavecarve]

I m currently (sic) in the process of changing my mind at these prices for Fogstar. Just gone out to measure a cupboard !

Wife just got back and I told her, and independently, of my own mind, I have reassessed the situation and decided not to double my capacity

 

[MichaelT]

Wife just got back and I told her, and independently, of my own mind, I have reassessed the situation and decided not to double my capacity

You should have told her you've inadvertently ordered one and as it was black Friday you can't cancel. Better to seek forgiveness than ask

 

[suavecarve]

You should have told her you've inadvertently ordered one and as it was black Friday you can't cancel. Better to seek forgiveness than ask

I ve just played the "What happens if we are in an area of no gas and we have to use 240 on the fridge freezer"

"Daily purchases of salad and your beer will be warm, so best you plan better" was her reply.

 

[Roger S]

They are a very tempting price, I do wonder if they will still be that price in the spring bearing in mind the price of lithium is on a downward trend

 

[Dutch 68]

Thanks all - I think the answer is 2 x 300Ah in that case. Just need to decide where to put them now.....

Might as well go for 4x300 eh

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[Gromett]

If you are more budget constrained and are handy with the screwdriver. Then they offer a DIY option. The 315Ah one seems very attractive.

Fogstar Energy 12V DIY Kit (Envision Grade B 315Ah)

The Fogstar Energy 12V DIY Kit with Envision Grade B 315Ah cells includes everything needed to assemble a 12V Fogstar battery, including the case, LiFePO4 cells, accessories, and BMS.

www.fogstar.co.uk

£349.99

 

[JockandRita]

If you are more budget constrained and are handy with the screwdriver. Then they offer a DIY option. The 315Ah one seems very attractive.

Fogstar Energy 12V DIY Kit (Envision Grade B 315Ah)

The Fogstar Energy 12V DIY Kit with Envision Grade B 315Ah cells includes everything needed to assemble a 12V Fogstar battery, including the case, LiFePO4 cells, accessories, and BMS.

www.fogstar.co.uk

£349.99

They only give 12 x months warranty on that one Karl. TBH, I'd rather pay the extra £150 for the Drift Eco 310A, and get my 6 x year warranty.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Gromett]

They only give 12 x months warranty on that one Karl. TBH, I'd rather pay the extra £150 for the Drift Eco 310A, and get my 6 x year warranty.

Cheers,

Jock.

Fair enough

 

[wfdTamar]

Note that the cells in the Drift Eco are the Envision, which are also in their DIY kits. They are what they're calling 'Grade B'. These would be similar to what is used in EcoWorthy and DC House and I suspect the Drift Eco range is of similar quality to those brands, only you have the Fogstar company backing them up which may be reassuring.

The Eve cells used in the Drift are better quality. Eve are the 'go to' cells used by DIY builders. I've never heard of Envision.

 

[BusyBuilder]

In our previous Hymer we had two 85amp gel and solar. Was okay but only just. In our current Hymer we have 250watts solar, 280amp Fogstar and a 1600 water inverter.
We have a giggle now when we check the Fogstar app and see we have 309amps. We can't seem to get it below about 150amps. No matter what we have on. Even use an electric kettle now.
It's so much better having lots of power.

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[Barriesimpson]

If you are more budget constrained and are handy with the screwdriver. Then they offer a DIY option. The 315Ah one seems very attractive.

Fogstar Energy 12V DIY Kit (Envision Grade B 315Ah)

The Fogstar Energy 12V DIY Kit with Envision Grade B 315Ah cells includes everything needed to assemble a 12V Fogstar battery, including the case, LiFePO4 cells, accessories, and BMS.

www.fogstar.co.uk

£349.99

But grade B cells.

 

[Gromett]

But grade B cells.

If someone is on a tight budget this doesn't really matter in my opinion. That £150 may be the difference between being able to afford it and not.

I will be buying 16 of those cells when I am ready to make a 16Kwh bank for myself.

Envision LiFePO4 315Ah Prismatic Cell (Grade B)

315Ah LiFePO4 cells are engineered to deliver exceptional performance, making them ideal for crafting high-capacity 12V off-grid batteries for solar systems, campervans, and boats.

www.fogstar.co.uk

At £50 a cell, I am well happy

8,000 cycles. I would be happy even ecstatic for even half that in use.

 

[Gromett]

Raul Just wondering if you ever use the B grade and what your experience of them was?

 

[Raul]

Raul Just wondering if you ever use the B grade and what your experience of them was?

Very pleased and rock solid performance. I have a 315Ah eve in the van, and 3 x 48v for house storage 45kw in 305Ah envision. The envision has proved itself so far. I have a high spend with fogstar as I build for others in remote locations.
My favorite bms JK, and second favorite is Seplos. It all depends if needs comms and high storage 45kw plus (seplos) or up to 30kwh (JK).

 

[the1andonly]

As what's too much Lithium turn it on its head: what is sufficient. For me that's 100Ah 4-5 yrs now was £560. As some else said never been bellow 20% except on day when did 3 loads of washing charged 2 e-bike plus normal summer use. That was the day i decided to give up my 90% max charge routine and set to 100%. I expected to add a second battery but couldn't afford 200Ah at the time and since then havent seen the need to join the power race, but use the one ive got. I may have to check capacity loss but not been a problem yet. My 550W (100+120+330) solar+30A b2b fulfills our needs. Pherhaps I'm lucky with the choice of SWBO "Do you want an hairdrier in the van?" NO ive got a towel . What 240V devices do we use/ want that cant be provided for by 12V or 375VA inverter? Answer none. Sorry cook by gas even at home still use a pressure cooker.

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[Raul]

If someone is on a tight budget this doesn't really matter in my opinion. That £150 may be the difference between being able to afford it and not.

I will be buying 16 of those cells when I am ready to make a 16Kwh bank for myself.

Envision LiFePO4 315Ah Prismatic Cell (Grade B)

315Ah LiFePO4 cells are engineered to deliver exceptional performance, making them ideal for crafting high-capacity 12V off-grid batteries for solar systems, campervans, and boats.

www.fogstar.co.uk

At £50 a cell, I am well happy

8,000 cycles. I would be happy even ecstatic for even half that in use.

I would put my order in pronto, That is a fantastic price and you will likely get 330Ah out of them. It will sell out at that price.

 

[Gromett]

I would put my order in pronto, That is a fantastic price and you will likely get 330Ah out of them. It will sell out at that price.

I won't be ready until mid next year. Hopefully they are the same or lower price by then. I couldn't believe it when I saw it.

Not even 3 years ago, My talk of sub $100/KWh was laughed at

 

[Gromett]

Very pleased and rock solid performance. I have a 315Ah eve in the van, and 3 x 48v for house storage 45kw in 305Ah envision. The envision has proved itself so far. I have a high spend with fogstar as I build for others in remote locations.
My favorite bms JK, and second favorite is Seplos. It all depends if needs comms and high storage 45kw plus (seplos) or up to 30kwh (JK).

Thank you very much for answering that one. I was familiar with EVE. I hadn't heard of envision but at that prices was going to go for it anyway as it is not a lot of money.

 

[JockandRita]

Note that the cells in the Drift Eco are the Envision, which are also in their DIY kits. They are what they're calling 'Grade B'. These would be similar to what is used in EcoWorthy and DC House and I suspect the Drift Eco range is of similar quality to those brands, only you have the Fogstar company backing them up which may be reassuring.

The Eve cells used in the Drift are better quality. Eve are the 'go to' cells used by DIY builders. I've never heard of Envision.

I have just read the specification sheet, and am happy that after 4000 cycles within my 6 x year warranty, that the cells are likely to have 70% capacity remaining. They'll out see me.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1347/0997/files/01._AESC_ESS_72173207-305A_specification__A00_1_1_1.pdf?v=1699875799

Gromett. If you've not seen it already Karl.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1347/0997/files/AESC-Envision315ah.pdf?v=1729077575

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Gromett]

I have just read the specification sheet, and am happy that after 4000 cycles within my 6 x year warranty, that the cells are likely to have 70% capacity remaining. They'll out see me.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1347/0997/files/01._AESC_ESS_72173207-305A_specification__A00_1_1_1.pdf?v=1699875799

Gromett. If you've not seen it already Karl.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1347/0997/files/AESC-Envision315ah.pdf?v=1729077575

Cheers,

Jock.

Yes I had seen it already

But the cells have 8,000 cycles

Envision LiFePO4 315Ah Prismatic Cell (Grade B)

315Ah LiFePO4 cells are engineered to deliver exceptional performance, making them ideal for crafting high-capacity 12V off-grid batteries for solar systems, campervans, and boats.

www.fogstar.co.uk

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