How long will they be using the 9-speed autos on Fiats (2 Viewers)

[Saucer]

Peter Vaughan has said that they are phasing these out for motorhome manufacturers, at least as I understand it. I think there has been discussion on here about a newer (?inferior) 8 speed auto on the way. We may not be ready to buy until next year when we may buy new. Do people think they will still be selling the 9-speed auto on new vans then? I thought some of you good (and well informed) people might know.
Thanks

 

[EuroTrotters]

What I’ve read on here re Fiats and their gearboxes I’ll be steering clear. A manual causes me no issues

I don’t mind a manual in left hand drive form.

That’s what we have .

My range river 8 speed is superb. As is my sprinter 7G-Tronic . But hard to find a true LHD auto in budget

 

[Adam W]

Interesting discussion regarding the different autoboxes.

I will be very impressed when they go to 11, it will be one faster!

 

[dunnah01]

M40 manual or auto is bulletproof

 

[Guigsy]

M40 manual or auto is bulletproof

The sensors and actuators that get hung off it to make it a Comfortmatic don't have the best reputation.

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[dunnah01]

The sensors and actuators that get hung off it to make it a Comfortmatic don't have the best reputation.

Yeah - but mostly standard clutch issues with a liberal dosing of poor diagnosis

 

[Jonno1103]

The Series 10 Fiat is expected on motorhomes from 2025. It's basically just another facelift with more electronics although there will be a new motorhome specific wide track chassis, Fiats first since 2007.

The BIG news is that the Stellantis Peugeot Boxer offered with the same engines will also be available with the same 8 speed Auto & wide track chassis cab.

The 140 MJIII with an MT box will still have 350Nm, mated to the new 8 speed AT will stay at 380Nm.

The 180MJIII with an MT box will still deliver 380Nm. On the 8 Speed AT, the same 450Nm.

If you want to upgrade from 140 to 180 and add the auto box the cost is expected to be circa £6900.

Expect to see Hymer begin production of the re introduced Burstner Delfin on the new Renault Master from 2025 too.

 

[TrudeandDall]

Picked up our new auto Rapido Dreamer campervan in March. The dashboard shows what gear you are in and I noticed it only goes up to 8 so I must have the new 8 speed box. It is very smooth in operation and has enough kick down to deal with German Autobahns and the Audis with blacked out windows that slash past you.

Mine won't engage 9th until the upper 50's, on A roads it never gets above 8... If it's a 9 speed it will also state "9 speed" on the gear lever.

 

[Barbie and Ken]

My 5speed manual is fine Some of you must have more money than sense

 

[BikerGraham]

Out of interest I have the the 9G-Tronic in the E class Merc and from memory only ever see it in 9th gear once, probably on a German autobahn, certainly not in the UK. What's the criteria, i.e. speed/revs to get in 9th? I'll add that I only ever use it in comfort mode, would that make a difference to achieving 9th?

my GLC has the 9 speed auto too and it is in 9th gear regularly. Any steady driving over around 63 mph it changes to 9th. Also only run it in comfort mode.

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[Garveypeter]

Peter Vaughan has said that they are phasing these out for motorhome manufacturers, at least as I understand it. I think there has been discussion on here about a newer (?inferior) 8 speed auto on the way. We may not be ready to buy until next year when we may buy new. Do people think they will still be selling the 9-speed auto on new vans then? I thought some of you good (and well informed) people might know.
Thanksit

 

[Paul.]

My 5speed manual is fine Some of you must have more money than sense

Mine is a six speed manual and apart from driving on motorways it gives you something to do instead of sitting there bored for hour after hour

 

[Dutch 68]

My 5speed manual is fine Some of you must have more money than sense

I think if you have ever driven a decent auto box then you would never go back to a manual, having money doesn’t come into it, if you invest in a new motorhome then the price of ticking the box for an automatic is irrelevant considering total outlay, also lots of people will need an auto for medical reasons like have a dodgy knee like my self

 

[MichaelT]

My 5speed manual is fine Some of you must have more money than sense

Or you just don't understand the ease of driving an auto and can look around enjoy the scenery and concentrate on traffic etc rather then giving your left leg and arm.some superfluous exercise

 

[Orion]

I think if you have ever driven a decent auto box then you would never go back to a manual, having money doesn’t come into it, if you invest in a new motorhome then the price of ticking the box for an automatic is irrelevant considering total outlay, also lots of people will need an auto for medical reasons like have a dodgy knee like my self

Agree with that. I had a VW Amarok 4x4 pickup with a 6 speed manual ‘box for year, that was replaced by the dealer with the same model but with a ZF 8 speed auto. Chalk and cheese and lacking nothing in off-road ability compared to the hi-lo ratio options of the manual version - in fact it was far better being able to concentrate on the driving rather than having to keep stirring the gearstick.

I was really looking forward driving the ZF 9 speed on the Adria and it hasn’t disappointed. I wonder how many who comment disparagingly about automatics have actually driven a modern one - or are they basing it on experience of old technology (or none at all?)!

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[Jonno1103]

The new 8 speed is confirmed to be a true torque converter automatic. We just don't yet know where the design comes from, if it's as smooth as the ZF9, or if it's reliable.

It's a ZF box designed in 2008 originally for the 7 Series BMW. Stellantis have been using it since 2013, built in Indiana

 

[Orion]

It's a ZF box designed in 2008 originally for the 7 Series BMW. Stellantis have been using it since 2013, built in Indiana

Wouldn’t that be a ‘box for a longitudinal mounted engine?

 

[maison]

I have the 9 speed box and love it.

It is happy to maintain 9th gear above 56mph.

 

[Lenny HB]

It's a ZF box designed in 2008 originally for the 7 Series BMW. Stellantis have been using it since 2013, built in Indiana

The 7 Series BMW is RWD it's a totally different box in the Ducato as the Ducato is FWD.
It is a version of the FWD box used in Jeeps & Range Rovers since 2013 & its built in the states.

 

[Jonno1103]

Agree with that. I had a VW Amarok 4x4 pickup with a 6 speed manual ‘box for year, that was replaced by the dealer with the same model but with a ZF 8 speed auto. Chalk and cheese and lacking nothing in off-road ability compared to the hi-lo ratio options of the manual version - in fact it was far better being able to concentrate on the driving rather than having to keep stirring the gearstick.

I was really looking forward driving the ZF 9 speed on the Adria and it hasn’t disappointed. I wonder how many who comment disparagingly about automatics have actually driven a modern one - or are they basing it on experience of old technology (or none at all?)!

Yep, there a loads of Amarok drivers out there who think their 8 speed auto is a DSG box. The new Amarok, a cloned Ford Ranger, will have Fords 8F40 the same one they're fitting to the Series 10 Transit.

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[Derbyshire wanderer]

Yep, there a loads of Amarok drivers out there who think their 8 speed auto is a DSG box. The new Amarok, a cloned Ford Ranger, will have Fords 8F40 the same one they're fitting to the Series 10 Transit.

Which is why I know what I have now and will never buy the new one as the benefits are not there anymore

 

[Jonno1103]

The 7 Series BMW is RWD it's a totally different box in the Ducato as the Ducato is FWD.
It is a version of the FWD box used in Jeeps & Range Rovers since 2013 & its built in the states.

Nope, sorry Lenny it's a deravative BMW box. Started life in the V12 760, box built in Saarbrucken. 1st Gen were rear wheel and 4x4, the latter going to VAG. 2nd Gen has a transverse variant & 3rd Gen can be used with mild & plug in Hybrids.

If you're talking about the TorqueFlite 8 used in the Jeeps, Rams, Chryslers & Dodges it's the BMW box. I did say it was built in Indiana?

 

[Guigsy]

Nope, sorry Lenny it's a deravative BMW box. Started life in the V12 760, box built in Saarbrucken. 1st Gen were rear wheel and 4x4, the latter going to VAG. 2nd Gen has a transverse variant & 3rd Gen can be used with mild & plug in Hybrids.

If you're talking about the TorqueFlite 8 used in the Jeeps, Rams, Chryslers & Dodges it's the BMW box. I did say it was built in Indiana?

Lenny is correct. The ZF 8HP is for longitudinal engines. It's designed to sit in the transmission tunnel. It can take huge power and torque, but it's also pretty large. You generally see it on RWD vehicles, but with a transfer case, it'll do 4WD like in the big Range Rovers.

The 9HP is not an evolution, it's a totally different product. It is designed to sit on the side of a transverse engine. So that's normally a 4 cylinder, but there are a few transverse V6s with the 9HP. The smaller Land Rovers like the Evoque use the 9HP... As does/did Fiat in the Ducato.

I think both the 8HP and 9HP have evolutions to allow various types of hybrid input.

 

[Tony50]

We are selling our 9 months old I "U " shape lounge motorhome , it has a 9 speed limit done 29.4 to gallon, @ 3500 kgs , went well , I don't particularly care if a new one is 8 or 9 speed as long as it is as good as this 9 speed except I smile to myself when it manages to get into 3rd speed ratio / band within 150 yards from start off.

 

[IRHP]

Our dethleffs at 4.5t does about 25mpg on a 180hp Comformatic so maybe the higher output engine are more economic than the smaller ones with a heavier vehicle?

I have a 4000kg Adria with 130hp and comfortmatic, I've averaged 28mpg over the last 4 years. If someone is only getting 22 then there's something wrong with the van or the driving style.

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[andyelbac]

Agree with that. I had a VW Amarok 4x4 pickup with a 6 speed manual ‘box for year, that was replaced by the dealer with the same model but with a ZF 8 speed auto. Chalk and cheese and lacking nothing in off-road ability compared to the hi-lo ratio options of the manual version - in fact it was far better being able to concentrate on the driving rather than having to keep stirring the gearstick.

I was really looking forward driving the ZF 9 speed on the Adria and it hasn’t disappointed. I wonder how many who comment disparagingly about automatics have actually driven a modern one - or are they basing it on experience of old technology (or none at all?)!

and of course they really come into their own in traffic or long, slow queues. That's when you really know that an auto box is far superior to a manual. My first 40 years I drove a manual (but even at 18 secretly wanted an auto), the last 20 have been an automatic.....will never go back.

 

[Pausim]

The older auto boxes used to use more fuel than manual ones. The modern ones are quite the opposite and are more fuel efficient than manual ones. Knowing which gear is the most economical and making rapid changes to optimise efficiency makes a difference.

 

[Guigsy]

The older auto boxes used to use more fuel than manual ones. The modern ones are quite the opposite and are more fuel efficient than manual ones. Knowing which gear is the most economical and making rapid changes to optimise efficiency makes a difference.

I think old torque converter boxes were quite inefficient, just through the mechanical systems used. The torque converter had slip, the planetary gears had resistance. Newer designs lock the torque converter very quickly after a shift, and more conventional meshing gears and clutches with tech borrowed from DSG boxes has made up much of the efficiency gap.

 

[dunnah01]

The older auto boxes used to use more fuel than manual ones. The modern ones are quite the opposite and are more fuel efficient than manual ones. Knowing which gear is the most economical and making rapid changes to optimise efficiency makes a difference.

That's more to do with all the extra gears squeezed into modern auto boxes. The torque can stay nearer to optimum, but you'll never get quite the efficiency of a robotised manual which is why they exist(ed)

 

[Guigsy]

That's more to do with all the extra gears squeezed into modern auto boxes. The torque can stay nearer to optimum, but you'll never get quite the efficiency of a robotised manual which is why they exist(ed)

Yes, the additional ratios have helped. But torque converter boxes used to just sap more power. Transmission losses have substantial decreased so they're nearly as good as a manual box now.

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[stevec]

I've been reading this thread and noted most peoples view of the 9 speed auto is positive and that they wouldn't go back to a manual. I have a 180hp 9 speed Fiat based A class with 3500 miles on the clock. I've never been that happy with the gearbox especially coming off roundabouts. I drive in Normal mode pretty much all the time. Seems D5 has the deficiency. I have yet to try it in manual mode. Maybe it's that the engine needs some more loosening up, or perhaps I don't drive it correctly (our first auto box on any vehicle). I shall give it a few thousand more miles when in France latter this year before I seek the dealers comments (they are Fiat Professional people)! At the moment I would happily go back to my previous 6 speed manual.