How did our Grandparents cope ?

[Speve]

My grandfather survived being gassed at Passchendeale, he came home to his family but unfortunately was never really a well person afterwards, I was fortunate enough to have known him but he died in the late 1950s with lung cancer.

 

[Neckender]

My Great grandfather fought in the Boar war and the First World War and survived both.
Here are 2 photos of him one wearing his North Staffords cap badge on his jacket.
The other he his in a group picture and he is the Sargent on the right with swagger stick.

John

 

[ChrisSue]

Haig had a job to do. He was being paid to do it. His problems were many. His small Army was covering as much ground as it could, in association with this country's allies holding much more ground. They, and his opponents, both had Armies full conscripts and, more importantly, trained Reservists. Politically he is having to commit a large part of his Army to hold a Salient in a country whose invasion, even as a declared neutral country, has caused his employer to declare war. The Army of his Ally is being destroyed to his South. That Ally has begged both him and his employer for help. It makes sense, as should that Ally be taken out of the War, whether by the loss of that Allies Army, or by signing a peace, his own Army will be outflanked and destroyed.
He cannot outflank his enemy. The sea stops him to the north and, eventually, a neutral country to the south. He does have reserves but these have had little training and virtually none in actual warfare so complex moves will be almost impossible. He desperately wants to give the battalions of his New Army another month to give them time to acclimatise. His ally is desperate, his own Government, his employer is pushing him. He has to go, like it or not.
Tricky problem to solve. I am glad I didn't have to make those decisions especially knowing they will be picked over by people with no military experience for the next hundred years

 

[rangi]

"The Hun" was too crafty for Haig, he had a modern weapon advantage, the Maxim M/Gun, the British had the Lewis/Lancaster M/G. which was magazine fed, Maxim was belt fed therefore had a higher rate of fire.

Haig at first refused, thought the Maxim had no future, wasn't "cricket old boy!", He thought that Aircraft was a passing fad and had no earthly use in modern warfare.
At first he tried to fight a "liquid war", advancing, engaging, then regrouping. Just like Wellington had during the Napolionic war and General Redvers-Buller during the Boar War , it worked for Wellington.

The Germans didn't give a toss for the neutrality of Belguim, invaded where Haig thought they wouldn't, was therefore wrong footed and caught by surprise. The Germans pressed home the advantage, Haig was forced to retreat, and continue to retreat, it was only at Mons he got enough breathing space to consolidate his position, and given that the troops he had initially WERE regulars and reservists (mostly Boar war vets) they held.

As you say when the french were forced to retreat, Haigs Flank was exposed, he too was forced to retreat.
The bloody war of attrition began, the Allies won by a whisker. It wasn't just the land war, the RN played a big part by blockading the German Ports.

 

[gus-lopez]

My grandfather survived being gassed at

So did mine but barely lasted 2 years from demob. My father & his sister barely knew who there Dad was & his younger brother only ever knew him from photo's.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Brains]

At school we had an elderly nun who taught us Latin and Divinity. She was about 70, so well past retirement age. We used to try to side track her in lessons ( we were all intrigued by why they wanted to be nuns) and one day she told us that at the end of the First World War no young men came home to her village. Every one of them had been killed in action. As she said, there was no one for any of the young girls to marry and she entered a convent at a very young age. I remember all us rather rather chatty teenagers were stunned into silence as she looked so sad and wistful.

If you look at population statistics around 1918 you can see the effect into the figures for decades.
For example the average life expectancy in 1918 was only 47!
That includes the female half the population, which means for men it must have been in the 30's.
You can also see how the birth rate in the years before the war was around 1.1m per year, yet had halved a decade later and did not recover for another 40 years.

I believe it was the headmistress of Rodean who realised that there would be very few boys for the girls who would graduate in 1915-25 to marry, and therefore ensured they had a proper education that meant they could support themselves, which for upper class girls of the time was a very progressive idea.

 

[rangi]

An extract from a diary of a junior officer Worcester Regiment (?)

"Our indomitable men walked erect and straight onward. Not Rome in her palmiest days ever possessed more devout sons. As the gladiators marched proud and becoming to meet death, so the British soldiers doomed to die saluted, and then with alacrity stepped forward to do their duty and win a glorious grave.
There never were a better infantry than ours; each individual linesman is a far greater hero than ninety-nine hundredths of the people in England have any conception of.
Rough he may be, but the stuff that makes Empires and for greatness fills every vein and heartbeat. Anglo-Saxon soldiers always advance this way"


It is difficult for us to understand now, how our Grandfathers were prepared to walk into Machine gun fire and certain death as they did in WW1, as crazy as it seems now, they did!

"Lions led by Donkeys" is an apt description methinks

 

[ChrisSue]

I would have "liked" the post but for the last sentence
We are doomed to disagree on that methinks

 

[Euromobil]

Walking around CWGC we often read inscriptions on headstones, one of the most moving was for an Australian;

In that distant land
Will some kind hand
Lay a flower
on his grave
for me

We did, and every time we visited someone had, even after 100 years.

 

[ChrisSue]

Just to amplify the last post from rangitira 2nd Lt J R R Tolkein of the 11th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers wrote of his War Service on the Somme that the character of Sam Gamgee was "a reflection of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen I knew in the 1914 war, and recognised as so far superior to myself".

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ChrisSue]

And the donkeys? Over 200 generals were killed, wounded or captured during the War. Obviously not all far behind the lines.

 

[ChrisSue]

"The Hun" was too crafty for Haig, he had a modern weapon advantage, the Maxim M/Gun, the British had the Lewis/Lancaster M/G. which was magazine fed, Maxim was belt fed therefore had a higher rate of fire.

Haig at first refused, thought the Maxim had no future, wasn't "cricket old boy!", He thought that Aircraft was a passing fad and had no earthly use in modern warfare.
At first he tried to fight a "liquid war", advancing, engaging, then regrouping. Just like Wellington had during the Napolionic war and General Redvers-Buller during the Boar War , it worked for Wellington.

The Germans didn't give a toss for the neutrality of Belguim, invaded where Haig thought they wouldn't, was therefore wrong footed and caught by surprise. The Germans pressed home the advantage, Haig was forced to retreat, and continue to retreat, it was only at Mons he got enough breathing space to consolidate his position, and given that the troops he had initially WERE regulars and reservists (mostly Boar war vets) they held.

As you say when the french were forced to retreat, Haigs Flank was exposed, he too was forced to retreat.
The bloody war of attrition began, the Allies won by a whisker. It wasn't just the land war, the RN played a big part by blockading the German Ports.

By the way Sir John French commanded the BEF in 1914 and its retreat was caused by a need to conform with the retreating French Army

 

[rangi]

Just to amplify the last post from rangitira 2nd Lt J R R Tolkein of the 11th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers wrote of his War Service on the Somme that the character of Sam Gamgee was "a reflection of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen I knew in the 1914 war, and recognised as so far superior to myself".

"Lions led by donkeys" as recognised by a junior officer, I quoted a junior officer of the Worcester Reg

 

[rangi]

By the way Sir John French commanded the BEF in 1914 and its retreat was caused by a need to conform with the retreating French Army

Caused by the invasion of a neutral Country , Belguim.

 

[rangi]

And the donkeys? Over 200 generals were killed, wounded or captured during the War. Obviously not all far behind the lines.

Most died, I'd say that they thought they were safe, most I would say were captured because they didn't believe the "Hun" would not move as fast as he did, Most captured I'd say, swopped a life of luxury in British lines for a life of luxury behind german lines.
Unlike the poor squaddie in , say, Gustrow POW Camp, daily ration of a piece of bread half the size of the palm of your hand and sourkraut. after a day of forced labour unloading war supplies in rail yards.

Donkeys led the high life, poor lions starved.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ChrisSue]

It was estimated that hundreds of thousands, many of them veterans, lined the route of Sir Douglas Haigs funeral in 1928. Sadly he died before he was able to lead a pilgrimage of 10000 veterans to the Somme as had been arranged.
It is also true that our so called "donkeys " never had to contend with a mass mutiny in the Army unlike our French allies in 1917, or the catastrophic loss of morale in the German Army in 1918. The latter caused, in the main, by the successful blockade of Germany by the Royal Navy. Both Army and civilians were starving so no real surprise that Allied POW's suffered the same way.
I apologise for having these revisionist views, that are not the "received wisdom" of the post 50's view of the likes of J F C Fuller, Basil Liddel Hart and Joan Littlewood with her "Oh What a Lovely War". I have tried to put myself back to the time of the War and read widely.
My biggest conclusion is the most heartfelt admiration for those who took part. I could not have made the decisions which the high ups made, nor could I have "stuck it" in the way the troops did. They are my heroes and my inspiration .
RIP especially to my Great Uncle Cpl Harold Applegate, 25th Battalion Canadian Expeditionary Force (The Nova Scotia Rifles) died 16/9/1916 at Flers the day after that hidebound old Cavalry "donkey" Douglas Haig had released our new secret weapon, the Tank there. My own birthday is the 17th September. I always find that slightly spooky.

 

[bungy]

It was estimated that hundreds of thousands, many of them veterans, lined the route of Sir Douglas Haigs funeral in 1928. Sadly he died before he was able to lead a pilgrimage of 10000 veterans to the Somme as had been arranged.
It is also true that our so called "donkeys " never had to contend with a mass mutiny in the Army unlike our French allies in 1917, or the catastrophic loss of morale in the German Army in 1918. The latter caused, in the main, by the successful blockade of Germany by the Royal Navy. Both Army and civilians were starving so no real surprise that Allied POW's suffered the same way.
I apologise for having these revisionist views, that are not the "received wisdom" of the post 50's view of the likes of J F C Fuller, Basil Liddel Hart and Joan Littlewood with her "Oh What a Lovely War". I have tried to put myself back to the time of the War and read widely.
My biggest conclusion is the most heartfelt admiration for those who took part. I could not have made the decisions which the high ups made, nor could I have "stuck it" in the way the troops did. They are my heroes and my inspiration .
RIP especially to my Great Uncle Cpl Harold Applegate, 25th Battalion Canadian Expeditionary Force (The Nova Scotia Rifles) died 16/9/1916 at Flers the day after that hidebound old Cavalry "donkey" Douglas Haig had released our new secret weapon, the Tank there. My own birthday is the 17th September. I always find that slightly spooky.

My great grandad (in his 40s at the time)was there too at courcellete, along with my wifes grandad (17 at the time), they may have even known each other as my great grandads regiment were the sappers for my wifes grandad regiment, one was from essex, one was from north wales...
Stood on the spot they went over top in 2016...very chilling being stood in the middle of this field with birds singing and sunny day...trying to imagine the sheer carnage.
Broken Link Removed

 

[Snoopy]

My father was laid to rest with that song green fields of France, piper played as they lowered him down, never felt pain like that day, can't imagine the loss, of all those souls

 

[Casper46]

I am in my 70s and when I was at school we were not taught about ‘modern’ history. No mention of either World War. My father was injured in WW1, bullet wounds in his back and part of his hand blown off, again it was never spoken about at home. We found out after both my parents died that he was repatriated out of Rouen. It’s heartbreaking to think of the men who didn’t make it home, but also of the ones that did and who’s lives were scarred by injuries in both mind and body..