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M-J

M-J

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Getting there!
Currently renovating our new home and have the chance to install Ethernet as required.

The full fibre comes in to the bungalow via overhead cable, I’m hoping there’s a way to have the incoming fibre go in to the loft and then split off to 5 locations where there will be Ethernet ports installed during the first fix stage.

Not sure it makes a difference but it looks as if the supplied router will be an Amazon eero Pro 6E mesh.

Any ideas/advice would be much appreciated please.
 
You just need an 8 port gigabit(plus 240V socket) switch up in the attic attached to the LAN side of your fiber router but be warned the wireless AP will still be in the attic which may be a good or bad thing. I have fitted 2 Unifi wireless APs in my house which are great. If your attic is very accessible then fine leaving your router there but if it is not then I would place the fiber router downstairs and run a cat 6 cable up to attic to gigabit switch as you want your router to be easily got at. If you have the oppurtunity you could run some cables to a ceiling presentation and then use a power over ethernet injector in your attic and you get a nice AP in your ceiling using only a single cable per AP.
 
The default for mesh kits is the master acts as the router and plugs into the incoming internet box. It provides a WiFi coverage much like any other internet WiFi router. But you're often you're limited by positioning, so you end up with poor WiFi coverage. The other mesh nodes can then add additional WiFi spots around the house. For most people, they allow them to connect to the master node wirelessly. But you also have the option of using ethernet cable to provide the backhaul connection. Wired is faster and also means there's more free radio bandwidth to talk to your devices.

I'm using a TP-Link Deco 6E setup with 3 units. The master is plugged into a Virgin box (with the Virgin WiFi turned off). One satellite node has a wired connection back to the master. And the other satellite node is connected wirelessly. It's all self configuring and has been very fast and reliable. Although I am missing the ability from my previous UniFi gear to put all my IoT stuff on a separate network.
 
The router doesn't make a massive amount of difference.

As Insider has said you would have your internet presenting into the provided router and then put in an ethernet switch of some sort into which you would run your ethernet cables.

A PoE switch will be a little more expensive and might be a 'nice to have' - but it depends on what you plan to plug in to your cabled ports.

CAT6 cable might be perfectly fine, but there are different sorts of CAT6 and there's also CAT7 and CAT8. Do a little research and decide if its worth spending a bit more on a higher category cable to 'futureproof' the installation (or not!)
 
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fishplug said:
The router doesn't make a massive amount of difference.

As Insider has said you would have your internet presenting into the provided router and then put in an ethernet switch of some sort into which you would run your ethernet cables.

A PoE switch will be a little more expensive and might be a 'nice to have' - but it depends on what you plan to plug in to your cabled ports.

CAT6 cable might be perfectly fine, but there are different sorts of CAT6 and there's also CAT7 and CAT8. Do a little research and decide if its worth spending a bit more on a higher category cable to 'futureproof' the installation (or not!)
Click to expand...
I watched a YouTube test where they connected a pair of 10GbE devices over a 50 feet of cable. Even cat5E worked and appeared to be just as fast as Cat8. I'm not bothering with anything more than Cat6.

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Sooner or later the interweb router/modem/wifi device will crash and need to be rebooted. Keep it accessible. The loft might be convenient to wire into but is it somewhere that you, or others, can get to without a lot of faffing with drop down ladders and stuff?

By all means route your wiring to a central location for a hub / switch and patch panel, but keep the main boxes in a more accessible location, even if you then still have further wifi mesh access points elsewhere.
 
Insider said:
You just need an 8 port gigabit(plus 240V socket) switch up in the attic attached to the LAN side of your fiber router but be warned the wireless AP will still be in the attic which may be a good or bad thing. I have fitted 2 Unifi wireless APs in my house which are great. If your attic is very accessible then fine leaving your router there but if it is not then I would place the fiber router downstairs and run a cat 6 cable up to attic to gigabit switch as you want your router to be easily got at. If you have the oppurtunity you could run some cables to a ceiling presentation and then use a power over ethernet injector in your attic and you get a nice AP in your ceiling using only a single cable per AP.
Click to expand...
I'd say put in a patch panel, and then the switch. We have a 'services' room where all the electric, networking etc is located.

Easy access is great for diagnostics.
 
Kannon Fodda said:
Sooner or later the interweb router/modem/wifi device will crash and need to be rebooted. Keep it accessible. The loft might be convenient to wire into but is it somewhere that you, or others, can get to without a lot of faffing with drop down ladders and stuff?

By all means route your wiring to a central location for a hub / switch and patch panel, but keep the main boxes in a more accessible location, even if you then still have further wifi mesh access points elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Agree with this. I used to have an access point in the loft. It was a pain when it needed rebooting a couple of times a year. In the end, I made it Power over Ethernet, so I could remotely kill it. But I don't think that's an option for Eero kit. Like Kannon Fodda says, put everything somewhere you can pull the plug on.
 
Guigsy said:
The default for mesh kits is the master acts as the router and plugs into the incoming internet box. It provides a WiFi coverage much like any other internet WiFi router. But you're often you're limited by positioning, so you end up with poor WiFi coverage. The other mesh nodes can then add additional WiFi spots around the house. For most people, they allow them to connect to the master node wirelessly. But you also have the option of using ethernet cable to provide the backhaul connection. Wired is faster and also means there's more free radio bandwidth to talk to your devices.

I'm using a TP-Link Deco 6E setup with 3 units. The master is plugged into a Virgin box (with the Virgin WiFi turned off). One satellite node has a wired connection back to the master. And the other satellite node is connected wirelessly. It's all self configuring and has been very fast and reliable. Although I am missing the ability from my previous UniFi gear to put all my IoT stuff on a separate network.
Click to expand...
Though, if you are also adding hard network points into rooms, I'd use a separate patch panel and switch for the internal networking, and connect the switch to the back of the providers box.

In my experience, hardwired much better for internet TV connections etc

Handles bigger loads better.
 
Just one further addition for cabling....

Plan any hard cables so they cross power cables at about 90 degrees.

Also, was at a friend's house who was installing their network, and they hadn't got the memo about the big radius required for turns on network cable!

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Jon Stewart said:
Though, if you are also adding hard network points into rooms, I'd use a separate patch panel and switch for the internal networking, and connect the switch to the back of the providers box.

In my experience, hardwired much better for internet TV connections etc

Handles bigger loads better.
Click to expand...
I'm easily getting 500mbps relayed via my downstairs wireless meshed node to a laptop. Even 4K streamed TV only needs about 50mbps. The only thing that needs that kind of bandwidth is my main desktop pc when I'm grabbing enormous game downloads. And that PC is wired.

I agree that the more stuff you can wire, the better. But that reality is that very little needs the huge bandwidths available. So don't get too stressed. Wireless meshes work surprisingly well. Even compared to my previous UniFi kit.
 
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Think my head just exploded 😂

I’ll break it down in to stages so I can digest and understand…

Assuming the incoming connection is likely to be in the loft but I want the router in the office across the other side of the house what connector and cable will that be to be installed before the fibre company arrive?
 
Guigsy said:
I'm easily getting 500mbps relayed via my downstairs wireless meshed node to a laptop. Even 4K streamed TV only needs about 50mbps. The only thing that needs that kind of bandwidth is my main desktop pc when I'm grabbing enormous game downloads. And that PC is wired.

I agree that the more stuff you can wire, the better. But that reality is that very little needs the huge bandwidths available. So don't get too stressed. Wireless meshes work surprisingly well. Even compared to my previous UniFi kit.
Click to expand...
Lowering load over WiFi improves consistency in speed.
 
M-J said:
Think my head just exploded 😂

I’ll break it down in to stages so I can digest and understand…

Assuming the incoming connection is likely to be in the loft but I want the router in the office across the other side of the house what connector and cable will that be to be installed before the fibre company arrive?
Click to expand...
Cat 6 or more from loft to where the router is at, probably enough.

See my post about power cables and radii
 
Jon Stewart said:
Cat 6 or more from loft to where the router is at, probably enough.

See my post about power cables and radii
Click to expand...

Thank you. How would a cat 6 cable connect to whatever the provider feed in to the property?

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Guigsy said:
But I'm not sure most people would ever notice. Very few use cases need more than a 50mbps each. Does it matter if you're sharing a 500mbps WiFi channel?
Click to expand...
Is the OP most people?

I'm making no assumptions in my suggestions until I know more!
 
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M-J said:
...I want the router in the office ...
Click to expand...
Think you mean a switch!

(Switches are devices which are more intelligent and faster than hubs, of which you router may be one)

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Jon Stewart said:
Think you mean a switch!

(Switches are devices which are more intelligent and faster than hubs, of which you router may be one)
Click to expand...

I have no idea what I mean 🙃

Do the fibre installers provide and fit an ONT inside the property (loft in my case) so I just provide power in that location and then cable to my office?
 
The suppliers box will need to be accessible and since you aren't at first fix yet you can put it anywhere at the end of the fibre cable. Put ducting in to the exterior so its easy to hook up when the time comes and cat 5 or 6 cable to the places you think you might want a wired connection...TVs mostly.

A central location makes sense if you want wifi everywhere, but you can put the suppliers box in one place ( a cupboard maybe) and the amazon box in another if you want.

Personally i'd have the two boxes together in a cupboard or loft hatch and cat 5 to the Tvs etc. cat 5 to a socket near the garden (but in the house) if wifi in the garden was going to be a thing and i could add an extender.

Put a double socket alongside each cat 5 socket.
 
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I would say that it’s unlikely that the installer would put the ONT in that loft unless it’s boarded and has a light. They will install a connection box on the outside of your house (which is likely to be down low for easy access) and then run a fibre to the ONT. from my experience the installer will try to fit the kit in the easiest place for them.
 
Just to try to simplify this a bit:

The ONT (Optical Network Terminal) is a box which will be installed somewhere in or on your property. This is where the fibre essentially terminates and your home network begins.

You'll need a power source for it and you'll have an ethernet cable that comes out of it and into whatever you're using as a router.

In this case that sounds like it's going to be the Eero Pro 6E. That's limited to 1Gbps on the wired and 1.3Gbps on the wireless. On that basis there's no point putting in 10Gb capable cabling as the 'bottleneck' is the router - CAT6 (or CAT6E) will be fine. However, depending on the cost difference you may want to put CAT8 in 'for the future' even though there's zero benefit to it now. Equally, you might not!

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the ONT being in the loft space - especially if it has a BBU (Battery Backup Unit) as these are usually pretty much fit and forget. However, I agree with earlier comments that having the router in the loft isn't going to be the best idea for all the reasons already outlined. The ONT is going to need power though so this might also influence where it gets installed.

The Eero gets great reviews and it's a fantastic little plug and play simple but stable device. Great if you want Zigbee and Thread for your IoT etc etc.

However, it's extremely limited in terms of ports as it's really primarily geared for a wireless mesh networking. Unless you have other options of router available to you from your provider then you will need to add a switch into which all your other wired ethernet cables will terminate.

A PoE (power over ethernet) switch may be worth considering depending on what devices you plan to connect. If you're just plugging computers / NAS etc then there's no point spending the extra but if you're adding phones, CCTV or wireless access points then it means you don't need to find a socket and run another power cable to them.
 
fishplug said:
Just to try to simplify this a bit:

The ONT (Optical Network Terminal) is a box which will be installed somewhere in or on your property. This is where the fibre essentially terminates and your home network begins.

You'll need a power source for it and you'll have an ethernet cable that comes out of it and into whatever you're using as a router.

In this case that sounds like it's going to be the Eero Pro 6E. That's limited to 1Gbps on the wired and 1.3Gbps on the wireless. On that basis there's no point putting in 10Gb capable cabling as the 'bottleneck' is the router - CAT6 (or CAT6E) will be fine. However, depending on the cost difference you may want to put CAT8 in 'for the future' even though there's zero benefit to it now. Equally, you might not!

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the ONT being in the loft space - especially if it has a BBU (Battery Backup Unit) as these are usually pretty much fit and forget. However, I agree with earlier comments that having the router in the loft isn't going to be the best idea for all the reasons already outlined. The ONT is going to need power though so this might also influence where it gets installed.

The Eero gets great reviews and it's a fantastic little plug and play simple but stable device. Great if you want Zigbee and Thread for your IoT etc etc.

However, it's extremely limited in terms of ports as it's really primarily geared for a wireless mesh networking. Unless you have other options of router available to you from your provider then you will need to add a switch into which all your other wired ethernet cables will terminate.

A PoE (power over ethernet) switch may be worth considering depending on what devices you plan to connect. If you're just plugging computers / NAS etc then there's no point spending the extra but if you're adding phones, CCTV or wireless access points then it means you don't need to find a socket and run another power cable to them.
Click to expand...

My brain likes this explanation thank you.

Unfortunately my cameras are not compatible with POE but as I am yet to first fix the power for anything in the loft it’s easily solved including for the ONT

If I’m understanding correctly if I follow this exact set up I would then be able to run a cat6 out of the Amazon router into an Ethernet switch which then supplies the other 5-10 locations around the property?

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M-J said:
My brain likes this explanation thank you.

Unfortunately my cameras are not compatible with POE but as I am yet to first fix the power for anything in the loft it’s easily solved including for the ONT

If I’m understanding correctly if I follow this exact set up I would then be able to run a cat6 out of the Amazon router into an Ethernet switch which then supplies the other 5-10 locations around the property?
Click to expand...
You'd want to go straight to a fast device like the switch, rather than introducing a bottleneck of the Amazon router in between, if I've read fishplug 's post directly.

(We built ours nearly 20 years ago with cat 6. Hasn't had a problem yet!)
 
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Yes, exactly that.

The ethernet cabling sequence is:
  1. ONT to Eero (1 cable) - possibly bespoke cable
  2. Eero to switch (1 cable) - off the shelf cable
  3. Switch to wall sockets (5-10 cables) - bespoke cables
  4. Wall sockets to connected devices (5 - 10 cables) - off the shelf cables

Depending on where the ONT gets installed you might need the electrician to make up and route an ethernet cable that runs from it to where your Eero is going to be or if you can get the ONT installed close to it then you can just get an off the shelf cable.

Plug another ethernet cable into the second (and last remaining!) port on the Eero and into the switch (typically port 1 of the switch)

You'll then connect the remaining ports on the switch to the cables that route out into the various rooms that you want.

Bear in mind that if you want to add ethernet sockets in 10 locations then you're going to need a 16 port switch as a 10 port switch needs one port for the input from the Eero leaving you with only 9 spare.

Also Jon Stewart made and repeated a very important point which your electrician should know...

There are regulations about data and power cables which include distances they need to be apart from each other which vary depending on factors such as the material the containment is made of, whether the power cable is shielded or not, whether the data cable is screened or not and.... Short version. Data and power don't mix well unless installed properly.

That should be your electrician's problem, but I'd ask the question and make sure they sound like they understand how to run data cables. A lot of them sadly don't.
 
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Depending on the supplier there will be a junction box on the outside where the external and internal fibre will be either spliced or plugged together. The may have rules that say they will not install the ONT in a loft space however you might be able to negotiate with the installer. I used to work for Openreach and officially lofts were no go areas unless fully boarded and well lit.
 
Jon Stewart said:
You'd want to go straight to a fast device like the switch, rather than introducing a bottleneck of the Amazon router in between, if I've read fishplug 's post directly.

(We built ours nearly 20 years ago with cat 6. Hasn't had a problem yet!)
Click to expand...
Eero say you should add the switch after the Eero in the topology


So - your 20 year old CAT6 sounds like it might be going obsolete soon :D

(I'm kidding, I can't see many home users needing more that CAT6 anytime soon - I'd be happy with it if it was already installed but I'd certainly do a cost comparison with CAT8 before putting my hand in my pocket for a new install)
 
Cat8 is just over double the cost for the cheapest by the looks of it but can be x4 in some cases.

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