Help Fogstar 280Ah battery issue in Spain

[Cush]

Some use the xiaoxiang app. in the settings you can change the balance on charging toggle switch and it may balance without charging. You may void your warranty though. Otherwise draw a small load that doesn’t stress the lowest cell is the way to go. Good luck.

 

[Raul]

How would it get that unbalanced as it is a very new battery and is charged by Orion XS and a solar controller with lithium profile?

If it's a new battery, it is possible that's been shipped out, unbalanced. With use the deviation just grew due to lack of balancing time. Balancing takes place when you spend time on absorb.
If you get to absorb and have loads on that time, large enough to discharge rather than charge, the weaker cell will never have a chance to catch up, and the cycle repeats.
You need to spend time on absorb, and observe the voltage deviation. It needs to come down from 299mV to well under 50mV when you can really use it properly.
Small current, and patience.
I had the opposite, one really full and the rest not so full. Was triggering the bms. So I opened the box, identified the cell with higher voltage, and bled manually with a car bulb and two wires directly on the cell terminals.
I managed to bring it down to a level where the bms took over the small balancing.
Now, all batteries I build they have active balancing, not just the small resistors.

 

[MichaelT]

If it's a new battery, it is possible that's been shipped out, unbalanced. With use the deviation just grew due to lack of balancing time. Balancing takes place when you spend time on absorb.
If you get to absorb and have loads on that time, large enough to discharge rather than charge, the weaker cell will never have a chance to catch up, and the cycle repeats.
You need to spend time on absorb, and observe the voltage deviation. It needs to come down from 299mV to well under 50mV when you can really use it properly.
Small current, and patience.
I had the opposite, one really full and the rest not so full. Was triggering the bms. So I opened the box, identified the cell with higher voltage, and bled manually with a car bulb and two wires directly on the cell terminals.
I managed to bring it down to a level where the bms took over the small balancing.
Now, all batteries I build they have active balancing, not just the small resistors.

Not sure if understand all that but it's only had a couple of cycles so maybe needs more to balance it out.

 

[Raul]

Not sure if understand all that but it's only had a couple of cycles so maybe needs more to balance it out.

Probably that battery never seen a proper balancing before was shipped. If it was assembled with cells at different state of charge, the battery needed a full charge to highlight the balance issue, before shipping.

When you assemble a battery, those cells need to be equally charged before assembly.
This is not the first time, some batteries are just badly matched and expect the bms to do the balancing.

Or, hope not, the weaker cell has a problem.

 

[daveclare]

They had theirs fitted by a company near Hereford. Their customer service has been excellent. But I heard them say that Fogstar are not quick in getting back to people.

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[AdrianChen]

Probably that battery never seen a proper balancing before was shipped. If it was assembled with cells at different state of charge, the battery needed a full charge to highlight the balance issue, before shipping.

When you assemble a battery, those cells need to be equally charged before assembly.
This is not the first time, some batteries are just badly matched and expect the bms to do the balancing.

Or, hope not, the weaker cell has a problem.

Hi Raul - Thinking ahead to when I get a similar problem! Could I just set absorbtion on the charger to say 13.3v, and start a 1.5hr absorption cycle?

 

[1967bowesj]

The app is the default Fogstar system.

Control of any charging of individual cell(s) will not be possible by default. Fogstar techy bods might be able to give added access.

But for a cell group to be so badly out of sync after only 4 cycles suggests a fundamental problem in the battery itself, especially if that is causing shutdowns. I think contacting Fogstar must be a way forward as I suspect a rare occasion where there will be a warranty issue where cells are behaving abnormally.

30 mins between the screen shots and it had done 2 cycles, id say theres something major wrong

 

[Raul]

Hi Raul - Thinking ahead to when I get a similar problem! Could I just set absorbtion on the charger to say 13.3v, and start a 1.5hr absorption cycle?

The pack voltage depends entirely on cell voltage deviation. You want to bring the high cell/cells in range of the balancer 3.45-3.5v no higher. In the OP case 3.5+3.5+3.5+3.15=13.65v would be ideal absorb. Then as the deviation decreases, increase pack voltage one small step at the time.

 

[Raul]

The pack voltage depends entirely on cell voltage deviation. You want to bring the high cell/cells in range of the balancer 3.45-3.5v no higher. In the OP case 3.5+3.5+3.5+3.15=13.65v would be ideal absorb. Then as the deviation decreases, increase pack voltage one small step at the time.

Just to add, when you have a situation like this, absorb is not fixed, you have to start low, then increase a bit at the time as the deviation decreases. This is a monitoring process and can take hrs if the deviation is big, like in this case. What it helps, is to have active balancer fitted.

 

[AdrianChen]

Just to add, when you have a situation like this, absorb is not fixed, you have to start low, then increase a bit at the time as the deviation decreases. This is a monitoring process and can take hrs if the deviation is big, like in this case. What it helps, is to have active balancer fitted.

I see, I think for my current batteries (since the case is glued) I would use this method - I can manually control absorption. When I put the upgraded pack in I will definitely go with one that uses an active balancer.

I think the Fogstar Drift Pro is supplied with an external one, but I guess a bms with built in would be more convenient.

Having said that I've always been careful to make sure the batteries get time for cell balancing, so as yet not had the problem (except on my cordless tyre pump, and Honda lawnmower batteries.......

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[d95gas]

Xiaoxiang Smart BMS available for iPhone and Android, does have a "Toggle Balancer" option. Its available on the free version, might be worth a look.\

By the way I am nothing to do with the App or Company, its just an app I use on my Fogstar​

 

[Bec@Fogstar]

Hello there! Did you manage to get this resolved? We're available to talk to on 01527 757980 or out of hours at customerservice@fogstar.co.uk, ask to speak with Mark in Technical - he'll be more than happy to help you. Bec.

 

[1967bowesj]

Just to add, when you have a situation like this, absorb is not fixed, you have to start low, then increase a bit at the time as the deviation decreases. This is a monitoring process and can take hrs if the deviation is big, like in this case. What it helps, is to have active balancer fitted.

Hi Raul,

I thought the Fogstar builds had active balance on the bms.

Could this be more the second thought you had as in cell is bad and being increasing deviation in cycles and balancer not able to cope

 

[Raul]

Hi Raul,

I thought the Fogstar builds had active balance on the bms.

Could this be more the second thought you had as in cell is bad and being increasing deviation in cycles and balancer not able to cope

Hi, Fogstar doo some with active balance, and some without. They are listed on their website somewhere, all the ranges and what they have.

As for a bad cell, that is extremely rare. Early production few years ago maybe, but now we get very high quality cells, often exceeding the specification.
This could be an odd build with a cell more discharged than the others before assembly. Nothing to worry once balanced. Is having the now how, time and right equipment to do it in a reasonable time.
With a normal charger is difficult.

 

[1967bowesj]

Hi, Fogstar doo some with active balance, and some without. They are listed on their website somewhere, all the ranges and what they have.

As for a bad cell, that is extremely rare. Early production few years ago maybe, but now we get very high quality cells, often exceeding the specification.
This could be an odd build with a cell more discharged than the others before assembly. Nothing to worry once balanced. Is having the now how, time and right equipment to do it in a reasonable time.
With a normal charger is difficult.

Would an older trickle charger be of use, the older ones that did say 2-4 amps only so it nurses the battery up to charge rather than forcing to much in and triggering the cut offs

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[Whizzo]

Originally when new the cells where in good balance, within a few mV of each other

Hello there! Did you manage to get this resolved? We're available to talk to on 01527 757980 or out of hours at customerservice@fogstar.co.uk, ask to speak with Mark in Technical - he'll be more than happy to help you. Bec.

hello not yet. The situation is better but not correct. I did send a shout for help with some screenshots to your chat, maybe I should have called instead. The current situation is that I followed Raul’s advice and put about 2.5 A charge into the battery(limited by the Orion XS) on my 250Km drive today. It managed to reach absorbtion stage although only stated 60% charge on Fogstar app. The cell voltages all increased but still had a 300mV differential. When I arrived on site tried to draw some power but still the same as expected. I have then hooked up to electric supply and tried to get my EBL to charge it. It didn’t like it for a couple of times. Then on the third attempt the battery suddenly jumped to 100% charge on the app and the charging did not switch off.

Therefore I have left this on charge knowing that the EBL on Gel setting has a long absorbtion stage. I took a screenshot at 12:55 and the differential had dropped to 277mV. Now at 19:20 the differential is at 149mV.

 

[Raul]

Originally when new the cells where in good balance, within a few mV of each other

hello not yet. The situation is better but not correct. I did send a shout for help with some screenshots to your chat, maybe I should have called instead. The current situation is that I followed Raul’s advice and put about 2.5 A charge into the battery(limited by the Orion XS) on my 250Km drive today. It managed to reach absorbtion stage although only stated 60% charge on Fogstar app. The cell voltages all increased but still had a 300mV differential. When I arrived on site tried to draw some power but still the same as expected. I have then hooked up to electric supply and tried to get my EBL to charge it. It didn’t like it for a couple of times. Then on the third attempt the battery suddenly jumped to 100% charge on the app and the charging did not switch off.

Therefore I have left this on charge knowing that the EBL on Gel setting has a long absorbtion stage. I took a screenshot at 12:55 and the differential had dropped to 277mV. Now at 19:20 the differential is at 149mV.



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That's good news, you are heading in the right direction. If the absorb times out, unplug from ehu few minutes and then re connect to force another absorb.
It looks like the bms is balancing while in absorb. Try not to discharge to much as it will undo all the work.

 

[Lenny HB]

I thought the Fogstar builds had active balance on the bms.

The Drift range only have a passif balancer apart from the underseat one, that has a plug in active balancer, as do all the Drift Pro range.

 

[Whizzo]

Took a look this morning at the battery and it lioked as though the charger had come out of absorbtion over night. Cell status 191mV differential. Disconnected the van from the electric to reset the charger and force another absorbtion stage. On reconnection had multiple low temp charging alarms despite the van & Battery being at 17 degrees C. Again got multiple over current charging alarms before the battery charger eventually went in absorb stage. It seems to be reporting random voltages on the cells and very erratic. See attached images. It now shows the the low cell as the highest in a short period of time. I’ll be contacting Fogstar later by phone to talk through this but something doesn’t seem right. Thanks again for all the help..

 

[Outdoors Dad]

Took a look this morning at the battery and it lioked as though the charger had come out of absorbtion over night. Cell status 191mV differential. Disconnected the van from the electric to reset the charger and force another absorbtion stage. On reconnection had multiple low temp charging alarms despite the van & Battery being at 17 degrees C. Again got multiple over current charging alarms before the battery charger eventually went in absorb stage. It seems to be reporting random voltages on the cells and very erratic. See attached images. It now shows the the low cell as the highest in a short period of time. I’ll be contacting Fogstar later by phone to talk through this but something doesn’t seem right. Thanks again for all the help..



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Very frustrating for ya mate, I'm sure fogstar will assist and rectify the problem.

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[Raul]

Can you get to the settings? I have helped a gentleman here in the past with fogstar settings. Some of the settings could be off and trigger on silly values.

 

[Bec@Fogstar]

Took a look this morning at the battery and it lioked as though the charger had come out of absorbtion over night. Cell status 191mV differential. Disconnected the van from the electric to reset the charger and force another absorbtion stage. On reconnection had multiple low temp charging alarms despite the van & Battery being at 17 degrees C. Again got multiple over current charging alarms before the battery charger eventually went in absorb stage. It seems to be reporting random voltages on the cells and very erratic. See attached images. It now shows the the low cell as the highest in a short period of time. I’ll be contacting Fogstar later by phone to talk through this but something doesn’t seem right. Thanks again for all the help..



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Whizzo Please can you call us as soon as you get a moment on 01527 757980 and ask to speak with Mark (or send us your number and we'll happily give you a call) - thank you so much, Bec.

 

[wildcampers69]

Im i alone in thinking average motorhomers cannot be expected to know what to do with settings on lithium batteries and certainly not have the ability to trouble shoot them, this thread proves that MFun is the best community on the net for help and advice.

 

[Lenny HB]

Whizzo Please can you call us as soon as you get a moment on 01527 757980 and ask to speak with Mark (or send us your number and we'll happily give you a call) - thank you so much, Bec.

One of the main reasons I bought Fogstar, excellent customer back up for the price.

 

[daveclare]

Credit where credit's due. Update on our friends Fogstar. Different to what the battery fittng company said. Fogstar have been excellent.

The chap from Fogstar rang them and with a little help from a Playstore app, their battery is back to full health again.

Apparently some settings in the BMS needed correcting.

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[JockandRita]

One of the main reasons I bought Fogstar, excellent customer back up for the price.

My sentiments here too Lenny. Yes, I could have bought cheaper, ie, supply source only in the UK, but I felt that I'd prefer easily accessible and reliable home support.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[1967bowesj]

One of the main reasons I bought Fogstar, excellent customer back up for the price.

Credit where credit's due. Update on our friends Fogstar. Different to what the battery fittng company said. Fogstar have been excellent.

The chap from Fogstar rang them and with a little help from a Playstore app, their battery is back to full health again.

Apparently some settings in the BMS needed correcting.

My sentiments here too Lenny. Yes, I could have bought cheaper, ie, supply source only in the UK, but I felt that I'd prefer easily accessible and reliable home support.

Cheers,

Jock.

Ive been watching this and the comments from daveclare as Im about to purchase from Fogstar and you get to see what kind of company you are dealing with from the way they handle things when theres an issue.
In depth help even when people are not in uk, monitoring or at least responding on open forums shows a certain level of support often lacking when a company has had your cash. A very Worthy company to deal with.

 

[Whizzo]

Whizzo Please can you call us as soon as you get a moment on 01527 757980 and ask to speak with Mark (or send us your number and we'll happily give you a call) - thank you so much, Bec.

Yes just contacted Mark he is going to call me back. Shortly.