HELP! Buying new and have payload question

[petesax]

Hi there all, I’m buying a brand new Roller Team 756 and I’m concerned by the payload. I have expressed these concerns with the dealer and they have today sent me the below image of a weight check done on the specific vehicle that I’m buying. I’m struggling to work out what the actual MRO number is based on the actual weight. The spec details are MRO 3058kg but from what I can understand on this sheet this is under….thoughts? By the way I know it will be a little tight for 2 adults and an 8 year old but willing to go light-ish for a while until I take C1 test and upplate to 3,850 or possibly 3,950 but thanks to Covid this is unlikely to be until next year. So light-ish is one thing but having to leave the wife or son behind might not go down too well!!!!

 

[Lenny HB]

My apologies for cross posting/butting in [my terminology may well be wrong, so apologies for that too ..]. We have NO experience of motorhomes, but are searching for one. Your '700kg just enough for 2 people' has scared the bejazers out of me! I've listed everything we'll be taking, and added 1kg for every litre of fuel + water, and added the extra weight that we carry round our waist to the 75kg for the driver,and have finished at 432kg payload need. I have been generous in allowing for bike weights, clothing etc so actual payload need is likely to be 15-20kg lighter. Have I made a huge error? We've found a couple of m/homes with 600kg to 700kg payload and thought we should be OK. Neither of us drink, so the freshwater tank + jar of coffee + kettle will be all that's needed, and we won't have the weight of a TV,or dogs or similar to worry about.

We haven't committed to anything yet, so can change our search criteria once the panic subsides.

Apologies again for butting in

Steve

My experience is based on German Motorhomes where everything is extra so all the extras eat into the payload. Brit vans tend to have lots of things that are extras on German vans as standard so on a Brit van you could get away with 500kg if you can suffer the build quality.

Also depends on how you travel, we carry 2 e-bikes also would never set off without a full tank of water (160lt = 160 kg), we have 3 habitation batteries, 300 watts of solar, twin tub washing machine, a day tent (25kg) only gets used once or twice a year at festivals but lives in the van. And I've just bought a paddle board. We just throw in what we want but we do have over 1350kg of payload.

If you think you need 432kg you probably need 550kg, add to that the 5% overweight the van will probably come out of the factory at, although we have had 3 Hymers weight near spot on but know loads of Carthago owners that have vans 130kg over.
A 2nd leisure battery around 28kg it pretty much essential, a wind out awning is approx 10kg per meter, then between 50 to 200 kg for items on the options list. Another 30 kg for a spare wheel.

 

[Jonno1103]

My apologies for cross posting/butting in [my terminology may well be wrong, so apologies for that too ..]. We have NO experience of motorhomes, but are searching for one. Your '700kg just enough for 2 people' has scared the bejazers out of me! I've listed everything we'll be taking, and added 1kg for every litre of fuel + water, and added the extra weight that we carry round our waist to the 75kg for the driver,and have finished at 432kg payload need. I have been generous in allowing for bike weights, clothing etc so actual payload need is likely to be 15-20kg lighter. Have I made a huge error? We've found a couple of m/homes with 600kg to 700kg payload and thought we should be OK. Neither of us drink, so the freshwater tank + jar of coffee + kettle will be all that's needed, and we won't have the weight of a TV,or dogs or similar to worry about.

We haven't committed to anything yet, so can change our search criteria once the panic subsides.

Apologies again for butting in

Steve

You'll be fine, honestly. You're requirements above are no different to 90% of other motorhome owners. Oh if you're not wild camping all the time you don't need extra leisure batteries and 100's & 100's of watts of solar.

Configure for what your personal needs are not what others do for themselves or what they believe is essential.

...and ignore the brand snobbery regarding German vans which in my industry experience have just as many issues as every other coachbuilt motorhome.

 

[deleted79651]

Are the 600 - 700 kgs the "brochure" payload or the actual payload? Remember there could be anywhere up to a 5% discrepancy on the "brochure" weights.
Also remember the "brochure" weights may not include add on items such as solar panel, leisure batteries, awning, bike rack, etc.......

They're brochure payloads because we haven't been able to visit Dealers to assess 'Actuals'. I was told by a Dealer by phone that MRO was Van +75Kg for Driver + 90% Fuel and 20% Fresh water and I have worked on 1kg weight per 1Kg for both fuel & water. Euro 6 engine so 19 Litre Adblue [missed from my initial calculations!] and Diesel Tank is now 72 Litres capacity. I've also increased Driver & Passenger Kg to reflect lockdown weight gain [had to give actual clothed weight to NHS 24 2 weeks ago for medication problem]

Extra Diesel + Adblue 26Kg
Extra Water 90 Litres 90Kg
Passenger + Driver 125Kg
2 Bikes 40Kg
Clothes 35Kg [based on air trip baggage weights]
Food + Crockery 50Kg
Bedding 20Kg
Table + Chairs 20Kg
2 Gas Bottles + Gas 42Kg
TOTAL 448Kg

Extras will be Leisure Battery [16Kg] Solar Panel, Reversing Camera and Wind Out Canopy [50Kg?]. No idea of Solar Panel weight so Running Total 514Kg + Solar & Camera. The weight of the Bikes + Crockery is overstated, but most other items have been weighed on weighbridge when we bought the Folding Caravan. There won't be QUITE as much spare payload as I had hoped [but Lenny's post + your reply have caused me to recheck & correct, so thanks to both of you]. If nothing else, this may spur Elaine and me to shed a few Kgs before we buy the m/home ... If you can see any other glaring errors or omissions, I would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks again.

Steve

 

[Speve]

and ignore the brand snobbery regarding German vans which in my industry experience have just as many issues as every other coachbuilt motorhome

I don’t think that’s a fair comment those of us that own German vans are not snobs? But we have experience of them as opposed to British brands and find them better value I don’t think we brag about that we just try to give informed views

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[deleted79651]

You'll be fine, honestly. You're requirements above are no different to 90% of other motorhome owners. Oh if you're not wild camping all the time you don't need extra leisure batteries and 100's & 100's of watts of solar.

Configure for what your personal needs are not what others do for themselves or what they believe is essential.

...and ignore the brand snobbery regarding German vans which in my industry experience have just as many issues as every other coachbuilt motorhome.

Thanks, Jonno. We have no knowledge or experience of motorhomes, and we're at the advanced age where a financial foul up on purchase will be difficult, if not impossible, to recover from [unless I can park the m/home under the railway bridge and sleep under cardboard].

I have used the weighbridge figures for our kit requirements from our Folding Caravan where the payload margin was, at best, 15Kg!

Not worried about Brand snobbery; reliability and decent design plus reasonable comfort is all we want in our dotage. The plastic shower curtain in the Folding Caravan was a hoot the first time, but tedious on repeat showings!

Steve

 

[Jonno1103]

They're brochure payloads because we haven't been able to visit Dealers to assess 'Actuals'. I was told by a Dealer by phone that MRO was Van +75Kg for Driver + 90% Fuel and 20% Fresh water and I have worked on 1kg weight per 1Kg for both fuel & water. Euro 6 engine so 19 Litre Adblue [missed from my initial calculations!] and Diesel Tank is now 72 Litres capacity. I've also increased Driver & Passenger Kg to reflect lockdown weight gain [had to give actual clothed weight to NHS 24 2 weeks ago for medication problem]

Extra Diesel + Adblue 26Kg
Extra Water 90 Litres 90Kg
Passenger + Driver 125Kg
2 Bikes 40Kg
Clothes 35Kg [based on air trip baggage weights]
Food + Crockery 50Kg
Bedding 20Kg
Table + Chairs 20Kg
2 Gas Bottles + Gas 42Kg
TOTAL 448Kg

Extras will be Leisure Battery [16Kg] Solar Panel, Reversing Camera and Wind Out Canopy [50Kg?]. No idea of Solar Panel weight so Running Total 514Kg + Solar & Camera. The weight of the Bikes + Crockery is overstated, but most other items have been weighed on weighbridge when we bought the Folding Caravan. There won't be QUITE as much spare payload as I had hoped [but Lenny's post + your reply have caused me to recheck & correct, so thanks to both of you]. If nothing else, this may spur Elaine and me to shed a few Kgs before we buy the m/home ... If you can see any other glaring errors or omissions, I would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks again.

Steve

Firstly deduct the Ad Blue, it's part of the MIRO as it's classed as an essential fluid similar to brake fluid. Secondly which gas bottle(s) are you including as say two 6kg full Flo gas bottles combined weight is 28kg's. Check the height of the gas locker as some vans can only squeeze in the height of 11kg bottles.
A 2nd leisure battery will be around 25kgs.
3m roll out awning, 25kg, 3.5m 27kg etc. a premium rear camera kit with a twin lens Sony camera & screen weighs about 3kg's.

 

[deleted79651]

If you think you need 432kg you probably need 550kg, add to that the 5% overweight the van will probably come out of the factory at, although we have had 3 Hymers weight near spot on but know loads of Carthago owners that have vans 130kg over.
A 2nd leisure battery around 28kg it pretty much essential, a wind out awning is approx 10kg per meter, then between 50 to 200 kg for items on the options list. Another 30 kg for a spare wheel.

Thanks, Lenny. Our entire Folding Caravan [where EVERYTHING is an extra; rooflight 2.2kg, wardrobe shelves 4kg, etc etc] was 1050Kg MTPLM and the weighbridge weight was 980Kg before we added the [bathroom scales weighed] last few odds 'n' ends to finish at around 1030kg or 1040kg. No sailboards for Elaine and me. We can venture up the creek without a paddle and usually emerge with the appropriate odour ...

I've updated the weights to pick up the items I had missed or under calculated and should come in at around 550Kg, leaving 50kg margin, even at the lower 600kg payload. We'll use only 1 Leisure Battery and will use gas and/or solar as required. The main reason for changing to a motorhome was for quicker set up and packdown so we will have to learn to travel lighter. Otherwise, we may as well stick with the Caravan and save our money!

Steve

 

[petesax]

A very rough and ready calculation including only the absolute bare essentials (you will, almost certainly, have to add in other items). Yes, you could run with zero water and increase payload but, as the majority have said, far to close to the 3,500kg threshold.

empty 2,920.0
gas 15.0
water 90.0
fuel 81.0
ehu cable 10.0
passengers 150.0
child 35.0
sub-total 3,301.0

alarm \ tracker 2.0
basic toolkit 3.0
bedding 8.0
bikes 42.0
bike locks 3.0
crockery 2.2
cutlery 1.5
dry food 7.0
fridge essentials 10.0
water hose 2.2
kettle 0.5
pots and pans 2.0
toaster 0.8
toilet chemicals 2.0
chairs 10.0
clothing 60.0
sub-total 156.2
total 3,457.2

tolerance 146.0
potential weight 3,603.2

This is super helpful thank you, we got the Motorhome weighed today by the dealer and it came in at 3030 this included all standard and optional extras that have been fitted including awning, tracker and TV as well as cables, a gas bottle and 1/3 tank of fuel but no driver so I’m thinking with your estimates we may be good until I uprate it when I do C1.

 

[deleted79651]

Firstly deduct the Ad Blue, it's part of the MIRO as it's classed as an essential fluid similar to brake fluid. Secondly which gas bottle(s) are you including as say two 6kg full Flo gas bottles combined weight is 28kg's. Check the height of the gas locker as some vans can only squeeze in the height of 11kg bottles.
A 2nd leisure battery will be around 25kgs.
3m roll out awning, 25kg, 3.5m 27kg etc. a premium rear camera kit with a twin lens Sony camera & screen weighs about 3kg's.

Thanks again, Jonno; that's very detailed and enormously helpful! I'll update my list again.

The gas bottles I was referring to were 11kg x 2 [I left a Spanish Gas Bottle + a 7kg Bottle in France in Feb 2020 but had weight details for empty Bottle & gas repectively, so just grossed up the weight and rounded the figure up]. My caravan leisure battery weighed 16kg [unless I recorded the weight incorrectly; it has been known ...], but I hope to use only one and switch to gas and/or solar as needed.

We're pretty frugal with leccy usage and have low wattage everything, not by virtue, but by necessity from our Folding Caravan exploits. But, if we do go mad, the extra leisure battery weight wil be neutralised by my over allowance for the canopy.

So we should be OK within 600Kg, and we can then return to the weighbridge to get updated actual figures for the new motorhome and reduce the number of assumptions. I was just really worried that we were going to make a really expensive mistake and have a motorhome that we could neither use nor be safe in.

I'm an anal retentive and former Bank employee from the pre-computer/pre-credit score era, so 'Belt, braces and sock suspenders' is my natural approach and the Bank Training just developed and reinforced it. I'm a riot on a night out [Victoria Wood on Parties: 'I'm the one who ends up drinking own label Lambrusco on the landing, talking to the geek in the short sleeved Fair Isle pullover about how interesting and cost effective it was doing your own conveyancing ...']. I have no recollection of the encounter ...

Steve

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[Speve]

This is super helpful thank you, we got the Motorhome weighed today by the dealer and it came in at 3030 this included all standard and optional extras that have been fitted including awning, tracker and TV as well as cables, a gas bottle and 1/3 tank of fuel but no driver so I’m thinking with your estimates we may be good until I uprate it when I do C1.

Good luck now get ready to get out there and enjoy your new van

 

[Gellyneck]

This is super helpful thank you, we got the Motorhome weighed today by the dealer and it came in at 3030 this included all standard and optional extras that have been fitted including awning, tracker and TV as well as cables, a gas bottle and 1/3 tank of fuel but no driver so I’m thinking with your estimates we may be good until I uprate it when I do C1.

No probs. Happy it gave you a bit of a steer.
Now you just need to get it and get out there and enjoy.
Once you've got it and loaded in "in use" format it might be worthwhile putting it back over the weighbridge. One other thing to remember is there are weight limits for each of the axles.

 

[Gellyneck]

They're brochure payloads because we haven't been able to visit Dealers to assess 'Actuals'. I was told by a Dealer by phone that MRO was Van +75Kg for Driver + 90% Fuel and 20% Fresh water and I have worked on 1kg weight per 1Kg for both fuel & water. Euro 6 engine so 19 Litre Adblue [missed from my initial calculations!] and Diesel Tank is now 72 Litres capacity. I've also increased Driver & Passenger Kg to reflect lockdown weight gain [had to give actual clothed weight to NHS 24 2 weeks ago for medication problem]

Extra Diesel + Adblue 26Kg
Extra Water 90 Litres 90Kg
Passenger + Driver 125Kg
2 Bikes 40Kg
Clothes 35Kg [based on air trip baggage weights]
Food + Crockery 50Kg
Bedding 20Kg
Table + Chairs 20Kg
2 Gas Bottles + Gas 42Kg
TOTAL 448Kg

Extras will be Leisure Battery [16Kg] Solar Panel, Reversing Camera and Wind Out Canopy [50Kg?]. No idea of Solar Panel weight so Running Total 514Kg + Solar & Camera. The weight of the Bikes + Crockery is overstated, but most other items have been weighed on weighbridge when we bought the Folding Caravan. There won't be QUITE as much spare payload as I had hoped [but Lenny's post + your reply have caused me to recheck & correct, so thanks to both of you]. If nothing else, this may spur Elaine and me to shed a few Kgs before we buy the m/home ... If you can see any other glaring errors or omissions, I would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks again.

Steve

If Elaine was to leave you at home she would, of course, increase the available payload by a good few kilos!

 

[G-RMPS]

I'm anal too and have a spreadsheet listing weights for everything. I have extracted a few items not mentioned above for your consideration.

Ramps, stuff for clean/grey/black water addition/removal, tools, safety stuff, toiletries and first-aid stuff, manuals! This comes to 40kg for us.

 

[Lenny HB]

I'm anal too and have a spreadsheet listing weights for everything. I have extracted a few items not mentioned above for your consideration.

Ramps, stuff for clean/grey/black water addition/removal, tools, safety stuff, toiletries and first-aid stuff, manuals! This comes to 40kg for us.

Easier to buy a van with a decent payload, that's what we did. Nice not having to worry about what you throw in.

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[pappajohn]

My question has been what other options are there to a tight payload for a 5 travel seat van under 3500kg I’m struggling to find any. Everything I’ve looked at is 200-450 payload for the needed seats. The majority suggesting prob own a C1 license but short of delaying for months I don’t have that option. The fact is less and less people have a C1 license and this is a time bomb approaching the industry...most families need 5 seats and at least 5 berth it seems unworkable??

A small 750kg trailer then you can carry maybe 550 to 600kg on top of the vans payload.
That's the only way you'll make it work.

 

[pappajohn]

Sorry I’m not being difficult just wondering how you calculated the 142 payload after passengers?

The 142 isn't payload, it's the allowed inaccuracy percentage (5%) for the unladen weights.
IE: it can be up to 5% either side of the unladen weight.
They don't weigh every van leaving the converters and some can be heavier or lighter than others due to different materials imported from different suppliers.

 

[ontheroadagain]

According to Elddis our Autoquest is 2875KG empty.
I have not checked this but I did weigh it when lightly loaded for a weekend trip.
With 2 adults, a small dog, 100L of water and half a tank of diesel it weighed 3310kg.
If the empty weight stated by Elddis is correct, we have added 425Kg.
If you add a couple of bicycles and more provisions for a longer trip, you can see how quickly it all adds up.

 

[Jonno1103]

According to Elddis our Autoquest is 2875KG empty.
I have not checked this but I did weigh it when lightly loaded for a weekend trip.
With 2 adults, a small dog, 100L of water and half a tank of diesel it weighed 3310kg.
If the empty weight stated by Elddis is correct, we have added 425Kg.
If you add a couple of bicycles and more provisions for a longer trip, you can see how quickly it all adds up.

Bear in mind the MIRO of 2857KG is the base vehicle, did you take into consideration any option packs and accessories you may have had fitted? The Lux Pack will take around 15kg from your payload, a 3.5m wind out awning around 32kg and a two bike Fiamma Pro E weighs 10kg. This would mean a base weight of 3014kg before you add your missus, dog, 100L water & half a tank of juice.

 

[the1andonly]

Download the resource invantory 2
A spread sheet to play with what if and loading
All open to play with.

Resources

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

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[scotzsue]

Our first van was a new
escape 686 with a lightweight also chassis, so no towing, with 3 adults 2 children and all the paraphernalia we still had a good payload left, had 2 batteries, awning and bike rack and solar and available payload after that was almost 600kg, may be a rare beast though, the started using the heavier chassis I think the following year ours was 59 plate

 

[jezport]

Think the payload worry would ruin your enjoyment. You wouldn't want to fit any accessories and larger things like bikes would be an issue.

 

[Jonno1103]

Our first van was a new
escape 686 with a lightweight also chassis, so no towing, with 3 adults 2 children and all the paraphernalia we still had a good payload left, had 2 batteries, awning and bike rack and solar and available payload after that was almost 600kg, may be a rare beast though, the started using the heavier chassis I think the following year ours was 59 plate

On a 3500kg van?

Are you sure is wasn't up plated to nearly 4500kg which is the max for a light ALKO chassis as I know the Swift Group never built an Escape with 1000kg payload. The lightest 686 they built had a MIRO of 2954kg that was fitted with the 100 bhp Multijet, the optional 130 Multijet had a MIRO of 2969kg, that's before you add an awning and extra battery which would take 55 -60kg from that figure meaning the MIRO would be over 3000kg. They even had to have quite low capacity fresh & waste tanks to keep the weight down and were one of the first to have the 60L fuel tank. Swift also recommended the use of the old 6kg Calorlite bottles.

The Escape 664 of the same year had the best payload before dealer accessories were fitted, 650kg on the 100 Multijet and a 90L fuel tank.

The van you have now has over 200kg more, a payload of 762kg.

 

[Lenny HB]

Are you sure is wasn't up plated to nearly 4500kg which is the max for a light ALKO chassis

The AMC Light chassis is 3850kg max, the Maxi is 4500kg.

 

[scotzsue]

On a 3500kg van?

Are you sure is wasn't up plated to nearly 4500kg which is the max for a light ALKO chassis as I know the Swift Group never built an Escape with 1000kg payload. The lightest 686 they built had a MIRO of 2954kg that was fitted with the 100 bhp Multijet, the optional 130 Multijet had a MIRO of 2969kg, that's before you add an awning and extra battery which would take 55 -60kg from that figure meaning the MIRO would be over 3000kg. They even had to have quite low capacity fresh & waste tanks to keep the weight down and were one of the first to have the 60L fuel tank. Swift also recommended the use of the old 6kg Calorlite bottles.

The Escape 664 of the same year had the best payload before dealer accessories were fitted, 650kg on the 100 Multijet and a 90L fuel tank.

The van you have now has over 200kg more, a payload of 762kg.

absolutely positive it was a low weight chassis no towing weight on v5 or chassis plate, taken over the weighbridge at least twice a year, think these were only produced for a couple of years. the payload was around 600kg

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[Hirsch]

Don’t forget a bottle of wine/ spirits weighs 1.4kg, doesn’t take long for that to eat into your payload.View attachment 472821

Surely that would weigh less if it was empty

 

[gus-lopez]

what other options are there to a tight payload for a 5 travel seat van under 3500kg I’m struggling to find any.

For 5 people they don't exist.

 

[Gaza1515]

Hi there all, I’m buying a brand new Roller Team 756 and I’m concerned by the payload. I have expressed these concerns with the dealer and they have today sent me the below image of a weight check done on the specific vehicle that I’m buying. I’m struggling to work out what the actual MRO number is based on the actual weight. The spec details are MRO 3058kg but from what I can understand on this sheet this is under….thoughts? By the way I know it will be a little tight for 2 adults and an 8 year old but willing to go light-ish for a while until I take C1 test and upplate to 3,850 or possibly 3,950 but thanks to Covid this is unlikely to be until next year. So light-ish is one thing but having to leave the wife or son behind might not go down too well!!!!

View attachment 472767

Why not do the C test. You can drive any rigid bodied vehicle then?

 

[Gromitandvan]

Hi there all, I’m buying a brand new Roller Team 756 and I’m concerned by the payload. I have expressed these concerns with the dealer and they have today sent me the below image of a weight check done on the specific vehicle that I’m buying. I’m struggling to work out what the actual MRO number is based on the actual weight. The spec details are MRO 3058kg but from what I can understand on this sheet this is under….thoughts? By the way I know it will be a little tight for 2 adults and an 8 year old but willing to go light-ish for a while until I take C1 test and upplate to 3,850 or possibly 3,950 but thanks to Covid this is unlikely to be until next year. So light-ish is one thing but having to leave the wife or son behind might not go down too well!!!!

View attachment 472767

Welcome to the wonderful world of motorhomes and payload. Suffice to say, my wife wasn’t too chuffed to learn that she was part of the payload! I believe some manufacturers assume you’re only going to get water, waste water and stuff like food and beverages once ensconced on a site. As a precaution I have done the easy paperwork exercise to increase our gross mass up to 3,650 kg which gives us an extra 150kg of payload (we both have C1). Interestingly, folks I have spoken to haven’t a clue what their weight is.

 

[MobyDick57]

Hello, just read the thread.
The payload is so low that I am sure you will be breaking your axle limits. So I agree with others, not suitable for use and really will effect the resale value

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[Bustup15]

Encourages me to drink too much , better to buy a van with a decent payload.