Help! 12v not working. Leisure batts dead? Advice pls!

[Rusty Pumper]

Howdy folks,

I've just picked up my Swift Kon Tiki 2002 640L from the garage having spent a small fortune on getting the dodgy gears sorted, only to find I have no 12v supply.

I have 250 solar, and assumed that whilst outside (where it has been at the garage for 5 days), that the sun would charge the leisure batteries. I turned the 12v supply off when I left it last Wednesday, all was good; but today the indicator on the battery condition indicator is in the red and the solar power unit (FOX - D1) is flashing on and off reading -102.2: indicating battery totally discharged.

I have 2x 110ah leisure batteries under passenger and driver seat respectively. Garage not caravan specialist. Up until last Wednesday batteries fully charged.

I'll get some ladders and check the cables on the solar units are all connected.

I'm now back at a campsite, and on EHU, but still no joy. I joined fun for minor crisis like this. Please folks, advise this newbie what to do. I'm hoping it's straightforward....

Many thanks,

Funky.

 

[chaser]

Hello folks,

Firstly, thank you all for making time to try and help me sort this. I'm feeling like such a dumbo.

I'm off site and off grid after the weekend so must get this sorted before then. This is critical for me to resolve. I feel it is something simple that I'm missing - probably a few motorhome brain cells, but as I've said previously my last vehicle was a VW camper. I've never had a motorhome before. It really shouldn't be this difficult, and in reality probably isn't.

I've taken some pictures, I've gone into privacy settings, but cannot see a request from MH fun to allow access to my iPad. Very frustrating, making me look even more stupid!

The mechanic said he knew nothing about motorhomes, so I can only assume the habitation batteries were not disconnected.

The Transformer Charger unit (in the wardrobe) is labelled as an 'Inter Power Battery charger'. It has a black switch on the top which I toggle right to turn on when on hook up, and left for 12v. I've got the ' Swift Motorhomes Owners Handbook' and there is no mention of a master switch, that I am aware of.

When on EHU and turned to 12v (down position on battery condition switch) showing positive reading of 13.7 on Fox-D1 and full battery. When switch on battery condition in middle position (off) the reading appears to 'pulse' and give readings between + and - 102. and various figures.

I contacted the previous owner who said he'd not had any problems with 12v supply previously, and gave me details of solar panel providers who I called who told me 'if the display on the Fox D-1 is flashing there is a problem with the power supply to the distribution board'.

Should I leave my phone number on here, and somebody can give me an idiots guide on what I can do. I'm trying to sort this with your assistance, failing all else, I'll have to book it in somewhere and pay someone to sort it.

Thank you all, once again for your time and patience with me in attempting to problem solve this issue.

Can we have some sort of recap on this, nothing 12 volt works when off hookup, but does when ehu, you have charged battery's with a normal charger and it says they are charged, the problem started after being in garage, are you sure it was all ok before that, if all this is right there has to be a switch or fuse between the battery's and the 12 volt plugs so if the panel you talk about is that switch , it all points to that in my opinion, can you get it out or to the back of it to see if there is a fuse.
Most likely they did disconnect the engine battery , which would stop all the van things working but shouldn't have made any difference to the hab battery, have you asked the garage exactly what they did.
Sorry if I am rambling , just thinking what I would do .

 

[airwave]

Ya know , the more i read the first post , the more i seem to recall someone else having the same problem a little while ago . The problem is i can't remember who , what or how . It was something to do with the panel over the door , and 12v being disconnected , you had to do something special to reconnect it . As it was not a hymer issue , it must have been on these page's or motorhome chat , as that is where i spend most of my time , though i do look into the mechanical section's from time to time too . I'll try and find it but i'm working too , and just about to drive for 2hrs , it may be some time .

 

[DanielFord]

I've taken some pictures, I've gone into privacy settings, but cannot see a request from MH fun to allow access to my iPad. Very frustrating, making me look even more stupid!

Underneath the bit where you type a message, there is an 'upload file' button, click that, find you photo when prompted, when done you get an icon that says thumbnail or full size, wither will do.

 

[DanielFord]

The Transformer Charger unit (in the wardrobe) is labelled as an 'Inter Power Battery charger'. It has a black switch on the top which I toggle right to turn on when on hook up, and left for 12v. I've got the ' Swift Motorhomes Owners Handbook' and there is no mention of a master switch, that I am aware of.

OK I have done a search online, this does not appear to be your controller, it seems to be an aftermarket battery charger to replace the onboard unit. The controller will look a little like this:

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[Rusty Pumper]

No, mine is not as sophisticated. Just a metal box with electronics inside and a switch on the top. I wish I had something more up to date. Thank you for making the time.

 

[Rusty Pumper]

Hello Folks, above are photos of (1): panel by the door and (2) charger in the wardrobe. Hope these help towards solving the 12v conundrum.

Cheers.

 

[Rusty Pumper]

 

[pappajohn]

Change that relay next to the charger or put a link wire between terminals 87a and 87.
That looks like the hab cut off relay to isolate the hab electrics when driving, if its welded itself open circuit the system thinks the engine is running so no hab electrics.
The relay is triggered by the ignition.
The black switch on top is a simple charger on/off rocker switch.

 

[pappajohn]

Also, check FUSES with a meter, they can soft blow and appear to be intact but are blown.

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[DanielFord]

View attachment 156153 View attachment 156154 View attachment 156155 View attachment 156156 View attachment 156157 View attachment 156158

Hello Folks, above are photos of (1): panel by the door and (2) charger in the wardrobe. Hope these help towards solving the 12v conundrum.

Cheers.

OK in pics 2 & 3 you have got the power switched off, in pic 1 you have leisure selected, showing a healthy 13.7, so I'm guessing you either have sun on your back, or you are plugged in. A fully charged battery with no outside assistance will read 12.5.

@pappajohn has given you some good pointers, also I would echo in your pictures, the charger is not switched on.

Do you not have a control panel located above the habitation door or somewhere in that vicinity?

 

[pappajohn]

In this pic.....

L/H switch....You are running on the charger (as a power supply unit), you're not connected to either battery.
As pointed out, in a later pic the charger is turned off so no power at all to the hab area.

Turn on the charger (on hook up) and switch the panel switch to the bottom position.
That serves two functions....it charges the hab battery and uses power from it at the same time.
Switching to the upper position does the same but charges and uses the engine battery.

 

[wigster]

Bloody hell peter aka flunky you've only had the van a couple of weeks and you've broke it already .

Its only probably a switch you've not set properly . As pappa says.



Jules has full timed in the van you have now for two years so he knows his van . And gave you a full handover his van was his baby.

I spent a couple of hours showing you how stuff worked as well.


For explanation Peter aka flunky and four full timers and me a long termer lol , lived on the same site over winter.

So its not like its a new to me van owner didn't give a shit scenario , The van was sold about 3 grand under budget because of the gearbox problem so a small fortune to repair and still in pocket is a good deal.

 

[Rusty Pumper]

Howdy helpers.
Thanks for the feedback. To clarify above post (Daniel Ford):
1: Power is turned off in pics 2&3. Display on Fox-D1 flashing and meter indicator appears to be 'pulsing' between short bursts of power on and power off. Readings fade on and off accordingly.
2: Leisure (12v) selected. Power on - plugged in EHU showing healthy 13.7v
There is no control panel above the habituation door. Panel in pics 1,2,3 is situated on left wall as you enter habituation door. Charger unit in pics 4,5,6 is situated in the wardrobe unit, first right as you enter the motorhome.

Thanks for suggestions so far. I've got a friend who knows more about these things hopefully having a look in the next couple of days. I'll pass on your comments. We're moving slowly forward. Out of curiosity @pappajohn what would cause something to 'weld itself open circuit'?

Onwards and upwards!

 

[pappajohn]

The relay in question is a 'normally closed' variety (N/C) and once ignition voltage is applied it opens to interupt the supply.
Perhaps i used the wrong wording with welded, instead meaning stuck/jammed in the open position as if ignition voltage was still applied.
Terminal 30 is the incoming power (to the relay) from the control panel and either 87a or 87 is the outgoing circuit to the hab area circuits.
The other terminal, either 87a or 87 is simply a dead 'parking post' for the contact arm when the relay is triggered.
By linking both 87a and 87 it effectively bypasses the relay permenantly so you have 12v power whether the engine is running or not as it doesnt matter what position the relay contacts are in.....both become an output terminal regardless.
Its normal for the meter needle to swing if no battery is selected (center position) on the control panel as the charger has nowhere to send power so simply shuts down as it thinks the battery is fully charged then tries again repeatedly.
Turn on lights or water pump and it should become steady, or steadier, as the charger is then sending power to whatever is turned on.

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[Rusty Pumper]

Steve, aka Wigster, the above comment is unfair, my friend. I have never, ever implied that I got a bad handover. I have intentionally not provided details of where it came from, out of my immense respect for Jools' privacy, and for mine.

I have not 'broke the van already' as you unfairly claim. When I took it to get the gears sorted out, everything was working perfectly. The afternoon I collected it from the garage, these problems were apparent. That is not entirely my fault. You did show me how stuff worked, and I'm grateful, but Its a steep learning curve for me. Unlike you, I didn't have time to spend a year researching motorhomes before I bought this one. I wish I had! This may be simple to you, however, all I'm trying to do as a novice to motorhomes is get the situation sorted as quickly as possible via Motorhome Fun: which you recommended!

It was a good deal, and Jools was very gracious for which I remain indebted to him, however, I consider just under a thousand pounds to get the gears and a new clutch, 'a small fortune', whichever way you look at it. I've only just joined this forum and don't want to upset anyone or be subject to what I regard as unfair criticism. If that's the case I'll unsubscribe and go on my way.

 

[wigster]

Oops sorry i hit a nerve . This is fun though so i will leave it as is . Hope your new friend can help and wish you all the best in your future endeavors .

 

[pappajohn]

You'll soon get used to the sometimes offhand comments but I'm sure wigster meant no disrespect.
Maybe a laughing smilie would have put it in the context.it was meant to be.

 

[wigster]

 

[chaser]

Steve, aka Wigster, the above comment is unfair, my friend. I have never, ever implied that I got a bad handover. I have intentionally not provided details of where it came from, out of my immense respect for Jools' privacy, and for mine.

I have not 'broke the van already' as you unfairly claim. When I took it to get the gears sorted out, everything was working perfectly. The afternoon I collected it from the garage, these problems were apparent. That is not entirely my fault. You did show me how stuff worked, and I'm grateful, but Its a steep learning curve for me. Unlike you, I didn't have time to spend a year researching motorhomes before I bought this one. I wish I had! This may be simple to you, however, all I'm trying to do as a novice to motorhomes is get the situation sorted as quickly as possible via Motorhome Fun: which you recommended!

It was a good deal, and Jools was very gracious for which I remain indebted to him, however, I consider just under a thousand pounds to get the gears and a new clutch, 'a small fortune', whichever way you look at it. I've only just joined this forum and don't want to upset anyone or be subject to what I regard as unfair criticism. If that's the case I'll unsubscribe and go on my way.

In the light of these last posts, why the hell don't you take it back to him and let him show you what's wrong, one thing though if you have solar if the batteries have been flat or switched off, it could be the controller still thinks they are flat as they have to be connected in order.

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[mjltigger]

I'm going to suggest there is a chance the garage broke it and if you can visit the person you bought it from they may be able to help prove it or solve the riddle.

The reason I suggest that is because I messed up our old van and had to rewire parts by crossing jump leads for the engine battery. It blew a load of hab fuses and fried a section of wire on the charging circuit.

This is a steep learning curve but if the person who you bought from is able to help they are the best teachers.

 

[gus-lopez]

As @mjltigger said,
it worked when you bought it ,
it went in a garage ,
it doesn't work now

 

[Rusty Pumper]

Howdy,

You did hit a nerve Wigster, as i don't want to be made a fool of on a forum I've just joined. Apology accepted.You're sometimes quick to judge, which is just your way, matey. As I know and respect you, it's forgotten.

Some other valid comments. Unfortunately, the previous owner is 220 miles away, anyway, it's my problem now. I will call the garage and make them aware of the situation. I agree, part of the buck should stop with them, if they'll admit it. I'm a private and sensitive soul who's just trying sort out this out, and live a simple quiet life in his newly acquired motorhome. Thanks to one and all for your help and advice so far, Wigster was right, the forum is fantastic! Have a good day.

 

[Rusty Pumper]

Howdy,
I just spoke to the garage and all they said they disconnected was the engine battery terminal. Because I don't have the experience as a mechanic, or electrician, I can't prove otherwise. Ho hum.

 

[chaser]

Howdy,
I just spoke to the garage and all they said they disconnected was the engine battery terminal. Ho hum.

Have you got a separate solar panel, has it switched itself off, have you tried every combination of switch positions, have you got your ignition on when trying your sockets.?

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[funflair]

Engine battery leisure battery could be close together or even mistaken possibly dy a garage that doesn't know motorhomes, have you checked that the terminals are on leisure battery?

Martin

 

[airwave]

they said they disconnected was the engine battery terminal.

Ah right , so the garage disconnected the service battery , it's my guess that has shut down a buffer or a relay in the process , and we just need to open it again . I also think the solar panel is confusing the issue some wot . My hymer had a little fickei in that the hab battery won't reveal it amperage after a full shut down , until the motor has been run , though it does supply power , i wonder if you have something similar . Now i know you have driven from the garage , but were the hab battery's still shut down .
Disconnect your ehu , and set the battery selector switch to off , switch the water pump off as well . Now start the motor , and with the engine running , go back to the control panel by the door . Select service battery , then after a minute or so select the hab battery . See what happen's .
I've been looking for the thread i was talking about , and though i've eliminated one section , and checked 30 page's on another , i've still not found it . It don't help , that i can't remember when i read it . However having just checked in to get an update as to what's been happening , i now wonder if it would be any help , anyway . As you have got your picture's up now , and it is a different control unit .
Oh and one other little thing , don't worry about looking stupid , your a newbie , you have a new van and you don't know how it work's . Everyone's being there , they were once stupid too , just that some people sometime's forget that . The only thing you are guilty of is not researching it more , but you admitted in your own word's , you didn't have time ! . Rite sorry , i gotta do some more driving , oh the joy's of a trucker . Hah .

 

[Rusty Pumper]

Howdy folks,
Reassuring to know you're still rooting for me. I appreciate it.

Chaser: there are 2 solar panels on the roof giving me 250w, I believe. But because there is a power issue, they are not working. Hence the Fox D1 unit (which usually indicates charge coming in from the panels) is just flashing and pulsing when I switch the LH button to the middle (off) position.
Funflair: I checked both Leisure batteries with a multi meter the other day, and both batteries appear to be fully charged. I think the garage should know the difference between engine and leisure batteries. Even I know that. But thanks for the suggestion.
Airwaves: you're a star. You did make me laugh, trawling back through all those posts. Cheers. And thanks for understanding. I'm in the van, and it's nearly sunset. I'll try your suggestion tomorrow.,and post a reply. To answer your question, before driving back from the garage, the only thing I noticed was the flashing Fox D1 display, which I thought was odd at the time. It's only later did I realise I had no 12v power at all. Hope that makes sense.

Thanks again, Funsters.

 

[funflair]

Howdy folks,
Reassuring to know you're still rooting for me. I appreciate it.
Funflair: I checked both Leisure batteries with a multi meter the other day, and both batteries appear to be fully charged. I think the garage should know the difference between engine and leisure batteries. Even I know that. But thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks again, Funsters.

That's great but as a lot of motorhomes use the same batteries for engine and leisure I had to ask, It's a good place to start though checking power from the batteries towards the control panel until you loose it.

Martin

 

[hilldweller]

the flashing Fox D1 display
Thanks again, Funsters.

I don't know if anyone has made this point, many solar controllers need the 12V battery to be connected before the panels, this way the controller knows if it is charging 12V or 24V, some assume 24V which could fry a 12v battery.

So pull 1 of the solar cables off. Pull batt + off. Wait a bit. Connect batt + then connect solar to ensure it is properly set up.

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[chaser]

I don't know if anyone has made this point, many solar controllers need the 12V battery to be connected before the panels, this way the controller knows if it is charging 12V or 24V, some assume 24V which could fry a 12v battery.

So pull 1 of the solar cables off. Pull batt + off. Wait a bit. Connect batt + then connect solar to ensure it is properly set up.

That's what I suggested this morning