height barrier

[GJH]

and so we go full circle.

When this thread started the one person arguing for the right to use this car park was called a tosser.

Not at all. Proving an economic argument for LCC to institute an alternative which would allow motorhomes in daytime but prevent camping is far removed from the "Direct Action" mentioned in the OP.

 

[pappajohn]

Seems a fair assessment of him... Not the cause.

thank you.

One of his arguments was some folks have removed their inbuilt tables so the vehicle doesnt qualify as a motorhome. oh:

So...in his own words, it points to all high top vehicles being excluded...not just motorhomes.....no discrimination there then.

His cause is valid...but his approach to the problem isnt productive

 

[johnp10]

If anyone dumps waste, throws litter setsup chairs they should be fined or punished in line with the laws which are in place to do so.

Many car users abusethe laws. Do we block their access? It is similar to racism banning one type of person.

No "person" is being banned.
To compare this with racism is just ridiculous.

Enforcement is expensive.
Why should the local and county rate payers foot the enforcement bill because of abusers who don't give a toss for anyone but themselves?

Car drivers generally done set up a semi permanent camp, allow greasy grey waste to contaminate the car park surface and empty shit on the sands.

The barriers were a last, and correct, decision.
What would you do if your all attempts to reach a sensible agreement and stop the pollution were ignored?

 

[jezport]

No "person" is being banned.
To compare this with racism is just ridiculous.


Car drivers generally done set up a semi permanent camp, allow greasy grey waste to contaminate the car park surface and empty shit on the sands.

If no one is being banned you try and get a motorhome in the car park. A height barrier stops any taller vehicle getting in, thus banning it entry.

BTW car owners in my experience do sometimes set up camp with deck chairs BBQs fires etc. They dont bring their own toilets so sometimes leave human waste. I was with a couple of other members from this forum last year at a similar car park and we witnessed a number of car owners leaving a collection of used nappies, still lit BBQs, dog waste and general rubbish.

The majority of motorhomers I have seen on car parks leave nothing behind and some of us even pick up rubbish so we are not accused of leaving it.

 

[jezport]

No "person" is being banned.
To compare this with racism is just ridiculous.

Enforcement is expensive.
Why should the local and county rate payers foot the enforcement bill because of abusers who don't give a toss for anyone but themselves?

You obviously haven't seen how much the council have spent on the barriers.
If there were so many people dumping waste and breaking laws then enforcing fines would either stop the problem or become a good source of profit for the council.

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[Puddleduck]

I don't think we will ever reach agreement on this - or even reach an agreement to disagree.

I still think councils are missing a trick with their P&R car parks that could be used for single overnight stays - and charged for. France manages with their Aire system so it isn't beyond the wit of man.

 

[GJH]

I don't think anyone is condoning or defending littering by car drivers (or anyone) - and I hope the car owners leaving a collection of used nappies, still lit BBQs, dog waste and general rubbish were either reported or informed of the error of their ways.

The problem at Huttoft Car Terrace and associated sites, though, wasn't just waste it was the unauthorised overnight parking, camping and trading which had increased to an extent that it was generally detrimental to the rest of the public who wished to use the sites.

If Lincolnshire County Council were to introduce a policy of enforcing fines that would require officers visiting the sites during the night. I don't suppose LCC has any officers doing such work overnight so it would require extra people, vehicles, fuel &c, all of which would have to be paid for. That expense would continue no matter how many people were caught & fined. The regular offenders would probably soon move on but enforcement checks would have to continue to stop them coming back - i.e. still a cost but little or no income. That cost would exceed the cost of the permanent barriers so would not be in the public interest.

The action which LCC have been forced to take is regrettable but it was left with no option in the end.

In addition, as we all know it can be hard work persuading councils to allow any parking for motorhomes in some cases. When councils in general see stories like Huttoft it certainly doesn't make the task any easier.

 

[DeuceBG]

France manages with their Aire system so it isn't beyond the wit of man.

Does this kind of "freeloading and disrespectful" (for want of a more suitable description) attitude actually exist amongst the French towards their country and each other though?
Would Aires just be abused by the few to the detriment of the many were they to be set up over here?
Don't misunderstand me, I love my country but it does seem to breed a certain less than desirable element that seems hell-bent on taking what it wants with total disregard for anyone else.
You only have to compare the town centres of the two countries on a Friday or Saturday night to see that there's a definite difference between our cultures.
What works well for the French may not be so effective in the UK.

 

[Puddleduck]

Leaving all the other arguments aside is the confrontation at Huttoft because it is claimed the barriers are there illegally or is it because they are there at all?

If the barriers are there illegally then they should be removed until they are replaced legally with legal signage. If they are in place legally then that should be the end of the matter.

 

[buttons]

I don't think we will ever reach agreement on this - or even reach an agreement to disagree.
[HI]I still think councils are missing a trick with their P&R car parks that could be used for single overnight stays [/HI]- and charged for. France manages with their Aire system so it isn't beyond the wit of man.

Mr and Mrs Jones and their three children are having a few days away in a hotel, their only holiday this year. They get the kids up at the crack of dawn as the forecast is sunshine all day. They leave the hotel at seven and head for the prime location of Huttoft car terrace, they know it gives good safe access to the beach. The kids are happy as larry with buckets and spades at the ready. Dad looking forward to a lovely day on the beach pulls into the car park at 7.15am to find that the place is full to capacity with motorhomes all still sleeping like babies, none with any intention of moving before the sun goes down.:Cool:
Is this what you are putting forward as missing the trick?.

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[Puddleduck]

Mr and Mrs Jones and their three children are having a few days away in a hotel, their only holiday this year. They get the kids up at the crack of dawn as the forecast is sunshine all day. They leave the hotel at seven and head for the prime location of Huttoft car terrace, they know it gives good safe access to the beach. The kids are happy as larry with buckets and spades at the ready. Dad looking forward to a lovely day on the beach pulls into the car park at 7.15am to find that the place is full to capacity with motorhomes all still sleeping like babies, none with any intention of moving before the sun goes down.:Cool:
Is this what you are putting forward as missing the trick?.

No, not at all. I am suggesting that the P&R car parks around our city centres could be used for an overnight stay from the point when the last bus leaves until before the first bus arrives the following morning. I don't think Huttoft is a P&R is it?

 

[GJH]

Leaving all the other arguments aside is the confrontation at Huttoft because it is claimed the barriers are there illegally or is it because they are there at all?

If the barriers are there illegally then they should be removed until they are replaced legally with legal signage. If they are in place legally then that should be the end of the matter.

The barriers are there legally.

No, not at all. I am suggesting that the P&R car parks around our city centres could be used for an overnight stay from the point when the last bus leaves until before the first bus arrives the following morning. I don't think Huttoft is a P&R is it?

Huttoft isn't a P&R.

As regards use of P&Rs as nightstops generally, they face similar "challenges" (can't think of a better word) to car parks in general, plus they are out of town which would put off some who want nightstops located close to town centre amenities/entertainment.

 

[DeuceBG]

the place is full to capacity with motorhomes

The flip side of which is that each and every one of them will have had to have paid for the privilege of course, whereas Dad and the kids are there on a freebie and also have the option of going to one of the other Picnic Areas along the same stretch of coast, all of which readily accept cars and families. :thumb:

 

[buttons]

No, not at all. I am suggesting that the P&R car parks around our city centres could be used for an overnight stay from the point when the last bus leaves until before the first bus arrives the following morning. [HI]I don't think Huttoft is a P&R is it?[/HI]

No idea...... Just a bit surprised that in a recent poll you were in favour of inner city privileged overnighting only now you are in favour of out of town privileged P&R overnighting.

 

[Puddleduck]

Originally Posted by Puddleduck:

If the barriers are there illegally then they should be removed until they are replaced legally with legal signage. If they are in place legally then that should be the end of the matter.

GJH:
The barriers are there legally.

Puddleduck: That's the end of the matter then. Just because a person doesn't like something doesn't give them the right to make life nasty for others.



Originally Posted by Puddleduck:
I am suggesting that the P&R car parks around our city centres could be used for an overnight stay from the point when the last bus leaves until before the first bus arrives the following morning. I don't think Huttoft is a P&R is it?

GJH:
Huttoft isn't a P&R.

As regards use of P&Rs as nightstops generally, they face similar "challenges" (can't think of a better word) to car parks in general, plus they are out of town which would put off some who want nightstops located close to town centre amenities/entertainment.

Puddleduck:
Thank you.

I'm thinking that P&R facilities may be of use to people who just want a safe basic overnight, dusk to dawn stop, en-route to elsewhere when other alternatives are full or don't take people for a single night. I know there are some dirty oicks around who would probably spoil it for everyone :Sad: It was just an idea.

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[GJH]

The flip side of which is that each and[HI] every one of them will have had to have paid for the privilege of course,[/HI] whereas Dad and the kids are there on a freebie and also have the option of going to one of the other Picnic Areas along the same stretch of coast, all of which readily accept cars and families. :thumb:

One of the factors that made Huttoft &c so popular was that there was no charge wasn't it?

 

[buttons]

The flip side of which is that each and every one of them will have had to have paid for the privilege of course, whereas Dad and the kids are there on a freebie and also have the option of going to one of the other Picnic Areas along the same stretch of coast, all of which readily accept cars and families. :thumb:

So what we are talking about is turning the best car parks along our coastal paths into caravan sites. Would they be run by the CC or private enterprise. Would they also be open to caravans.:Cool:

 

[GJH]

(snip)
I'm thinking that P&R facilities may be of use to people who just want a safe basic overnight, dusk to dawn stop, en-route to elsewhere when other alternatives are full or don't take people for a single night. I know there are some dirty oicks around who would probably spoil it for everyone :Sad: It was just an idea.

No doubt there would be some people who would make use of such facilities but the question is whether there would be enough to justify the cost of allowing overnighting.

 

[magicsurfbus]

His cause is valid...but his approach to the problem isn't productive

Not only isn't productive but is bizarre and obsessive. Does any Motorhome owner seriously want to be associated with this utter geek, however valid his cause may be?

Look at his blog entry for today (25 March) - he's banging on about how the small black triangle that was added to the height limit sign to make it legal isn't straight enough and needs a spirit level applying.

I feel tainted by association from just having read such drivel. Strangeway by name, strange way by nature.

 

[Puddleduck]

No idea...... Just a bit surprised that in a recent poll you were in favour of inner city privileged overnighting only now you are in favour of out of town privileged P&R overnighting.

Not privileged but somewhere to park, pay and legally stay rather than be excluded completely. BUT only so long as the place is left at least as clean and tidy as on arrival. I do not suggest anyone parks illegally or irresponsibly or leaves grot around for others to clear away.

Polls do not give alternative options so one can only select the option that fits closest if there isn't a complete fit.

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[DeuceBG]

So what we are talking about is turning the best car parks along our coastal paths into caravan sites. Would they be run by the CC or private enterprise. Would they also be open to caravans.:Cool:

I didn't say it was THE solution, I was simply countering the argument that you seemed to be making regarding the family from the hotel missing out on their free day at the beach being in some way more important than the local Council drawing revenue from the over-nighting Motor Homers.
Said revenue being part of the point that Puddleduck was making in his post, part of which you were quoting from. :Cool:

 

[scotjimland]

So what we are talking about is turning the best car parks along our coastal paths into caravan sites. Would they be run by the CC or private enterprise. [HI]Would they also be open to caravans[/HI].:Cool:

wash your mouth out young man.. don't you know a caravan is not a motorhome.. :Angry::Angry:

I don't know what this forum is coming to.. caravans indeed.. what ever next.. horse and carts

 

[DeuceBG]

One of the factors that made Huttoft &c so popular was that there was no charge wasn't it?

One certainly, but not the only one.
I for one would happily pay a reasonable fee to be able to plot up there for the day and enjoy the beach etc.
In fact, I used to pay to park there several years ago when it was actually patrolled by an attendant whose unused kiosk still remains on the site to this day.
It's the "Free" Brigade who have caused all this debacle in the first place surely?? oh:

 

[Yorick]

Having a Motorhome doesn't give you special privileges.

Motorcyclists are another group who think it makes them special and some whine like an old milk float

 

[GJH]

One certainly, but not the only one.
I for one would happily pay a reasonable fee to be able to plot up there for the day and enjoy the beach etc.
In fact, I used to pay to park there several years ago when it was actually patrolled by an attendant whose unused kiosk still remains on the site to this day.
It's the "Free" Brigade who have caused all this debacle in the first place surely?? oh:

I'm sure you're right and I don't know why/when the attendant was withdrawn. However, given that LCC now has to contend with the "Free" Brigade I have doubts as to whether it could be reinstated.

At the end of the day, when the attendant wished to lock the barrier and finish work, there could be problems if:

1. Occupiers of motorhomes refused to leave;
2. Occupiers of motorhomes made sure they were not around (so couldn't be asked to leave) until after the attendant had gone.

In either case, unless the vehicle were physically removed, they would achieve their objective of an overnight stay.

It would be possible to levy fines on vehicles left after closing time, I suppose, but would the revenue gained outweigh the cost? Also, would the revenue from charging pay the costs of an attendant (even if machines were used and he visited only to lock/unlock the barrier)?

As mentioned yesterday, I would love to see somebody produce realistically costed arguments and take them to LCC. I would guess, though, that LCC has already done so and rejected the idea on cost grounds (maybe such information would be provided if an FoI request were submitted by an interested party).

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[GJH]

Having a Motorhome doesn't give you special privileges.

Motorcyclists are another group who think it makes them special and [HI]some whine like an old milk float [/HI]

The bike or the rider?

 

[DeuceBG]

Having a Motorhome doesn't give you special privileges.

Motorcyclists are another group who think it makes them special and some whine like an old milk float

This is true but, regardless of your chosen occupation, hobby or mode of transport, simply being a Human Being entitles you to expect the same degree of respect that you are prepared to offer anyone else.:Cool:

 

[Yorick]

The bike or the rider?

Both in some cases

 

[Yorick]

This is true but, regardless of your chosen occupation, hobby or mode of transport, simply being a Human Being entitles you to expect the same degree of respect that you are prepared to offer anyone else.:Cool:

Aye, very true



As an ex Gigolo, I still have high standards

 

[acting_strange]

Motorcyclists are another group who think it makes them special and some whine like an old milk float

It's this just more plagiarism?.....cos isn't this what Dawn has said many times about you?...

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