Have Ducato gears got higher?

[Stealaway]

Maximum torque and maximum MPG on my 2.3 Euro 6 130hp is 1900-2000 rpm and 50 to 55 mph. Around 30mpg on a newish engine, on motorways

 

[SpeedyDux]

No problems staying in 6th uphill at GPS true 65mph when fully loaded. Just about 2300 rpm. 2017 Fiat 2.3 150 with Comfortmatic.

Thinking the OP's engine is lacking a bit of torque and may have some issues that need looking into. Or how about cheapo diesel.
I only buy the premium stuff even though it's now £1.50 a litre.

 

[Folkranger]

So that explains your road fund licence then

Haven't looked at that side of things but are you saying rfl is lower with a heavier vehicle?

 

[Folkranger]

No problems staying in 6th uphill at GPS true 65mph when fully loaded. Just about 2300 rpm. 2017 Fiat 2.3 150 with Comfortmatic.

Thinking the OP's engine is lacking a bit of torque and may have some issues that need looking into. Or how about cheapo diesel.
I only buy the premium stuff even though it's now £1.50 a litre.

Hope there's not an engine issue with only 9k on clock. On holiday now and first real run so apologies for my vagueness. Will do proper checks as time allows. I'm not sure price is an indicator of fuel quality otherwise I'd buy all mine at the motkrhome services.

 

[Bobby-gg]

Haven't looked at that side of things but are you saying rfl is lower with a heavier vehicle?

Yup, cheaper tax on vehicle's between 3500kg - 7500kg.

Nothing to do with age, or emissions, it's the weight class.

The reduction (or was it a "freeze" I can't remember now) was done year's ago to "help small haulage businesses"

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[Folkranger]

2017 should be Euro 6.
We had a 2014, 150hp, 3850kg, on 15“ wheels. Current van is 2017, 150hp, 4500kg, 16" wheels.
Both Comfortmatics only difference we really notice is the newer van is slightly more sluggish due to the weight. Changes up to 6th at 47/48 mph (true speed not Fiat speed) and back down to 5th at 42mph.

I was checking on line and euro 6 was from Sept. 2017. But doesn't that use addblue? We have manual with 16" tyres. Previous van ran about the same weight, not sure on tyre size, and very little need to change down once going. Have to do some proper checks but you know when something is quite a lot different.

 

[Folkranger]

Yup, cheaper tax on vehicle's between 3500kg - 7500kg.

Nothing to do with age, or emissions, it's the weight class.

The reduction was done year's ago to "help small haulage businesses"

Yippee!

 

[Lenny HB]

I was checking on line and euro 6 was from Sept. 2017. But doesn't that use addblue? We have manual with 16" tyres. Previous van ran about the same weight, not sure on tyre size, and very little need to change down once going. Have to do some proper checks but you know when something is quite a lot different.

My van was built in Feb 2017 the Fiat part end of November 2016 and its Euro 6.
Motorhomes started to be built on Euro 6 chassis around September 2016, panel vans it was about 6 - 9 months eairler.

I think it should show it on your Certificate of Conformity.

 

[Landy Andy]

What size did you go from to???

I'm thinking of going from 235 65 16 up to 225 75 16 as I find the 65 quite crashy. (conti vancos)

Will bring the Speedo up to accurate according the GPS / flashing speed signs.
Cheers James

Cheers James

I went from 215x15 to 225x15, same profile. Very surprised how noticeable it is.

 

[mikebeaches]

Haven't looked at that side of things but are you saying rfl is lower with a heavier vehicle?

Yes, that's correct.

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[Jonno1103]

Maximum torque and maximum MPG on my 2.3 Euro 6 130hp is 1900-2000 rpm and 50 to 55 mph. Around 30mpg on a newish engine, on motorways

Transit 2.0L 130ps Ecoblue is 2100rpm at 70mph. That's with the 6 speed auto, 385Nm and only drops down to 5th using cruise control when there are crawler lanes on motorways.

Fiat's new 160ps is 360Nm on the manual, 380Nm with the 9 speed auto.

 

[Emmit]

gus-lopez

Re your comment following on from a comment made by Jamesh

Jamesh said:
I'm thinking of going from 235 65 16 up to 225 75 16 as I find the 65 quite crashy. (conti vancos)

That's the width or the tyre & will not make a difference it is the diameter 16",15", 17" ,18" etc that makes a difference.
=================
I respectably disagree
The profile of the tyre in relation to percentage of width Will make a difference to the gearing.

When I changed from, (memory???) 215 x 75 x 15 to 225 x 75 x 15 the circumference of the tyre increased by about 3cms.
with a resultant loss of climbing ability. I'm not talking much but on certain, well known inclines, the van wasn't as good.
That was down to the difference in gearing.

 

[Jonno1103]

What size did you go from to???

I'm thinking of going from 235 65 16 up to 225 75 16 as I find the 65 quite crashy. (conti vancos)

Will bring the Speedo up to accurate according the GPS / flashing speed signs.
Cheers James

Cheers James

We've standard fit 235/65/16 Michy Aglise non camping tyres which perform well. The only motorhome we had camping tyres on was the Tracker and they were noticeably poorer on tarmac and louder.

 

[Bobby-gg]

gus-lopez

Re your comment following on from a comment made by Jamesh

That's the width or the tyre & will not make a difference it is the diameter 16",15", 17" ,18" etc that makes a difference.
=================
I respectably disagree
The profile of the tyre in relation to percentage of width Will make a difference to the gearing.

When I changed from, (memory???) 215 x 75 x 15 to 225 x 75 x 15 the circumference of the tyre increased by about 3cms.
with a resultant loss of climbing ability. I'm not talking much but on certain, well known inclines, the van wasn't as good.
That was down to the difference in gearing.

Yes, you are correct

<Broken link removed>

 

[gus-lopez]

gus-lopez

Re your comment following on from a comment made by Jamesh

That's the width or the tyre & will not make a difference it is the diameter 16",15", 17" ,18" etc that makes a difference.
=================
I respectably disagree
The profile of the tyre in relation to percentage of width Will make a difference to the gearing.

When I changed from, (memory???) 215 x 75 x 15 to 225 x 75 x 15 the circumference of the tyre increased by about 3cms.
with a resultant loss of climbing ability. I'm not talking much but on certain, well known inclines, the van wasn't as good.
That was down to the difference in gearing.

Yes, but it is surprisingly small & I wouldn't have even thought it noticed? Whereas an increase from 15" wheels to 16" wheels without reduce the tyres profile to compensate is far greater.

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[Folkranger]

gus-lopez

Re your comment following on from a comment made by Jamesh

That's the width or the tyre & will not make a difference it is the diameter 16",15", 17" ,18" etc that makes a difference.
=================
I respectably disagree
The profile of the tyre in relation to percentage of width Will make a difference to the gearing.

When I changed from, (memory???) 215 x 75 x 15 to 225 x 75 x 15 the circumference of the tyre increased by about 3cms.
with a resultant loss of climbing ability. I'm not talking much but on certain, well known inclines, the van wasn't as good.
That was down to the difference in gearing.

New tyres, more tread.

 

[Jonno1103]

No problems staying in 6th uphill at GPS true 65mph when fully loaded. Just about 2300 rpm. 2017 Fiat 2.3 150 with Comfortmatic.

Thinking the OP's engine is lacking a bit of torque and may have some issues that need looking into. Or how about cheapo diesel.
I only buy the premium stuff even though it's now £1.50 a litre.

2300 rpm? That's a GPS 76mph, 79 on the clock, in 6th for us. Telegraph Hill in Devon is a notoriously steep winding hill, HGV's crawl up at around 25mph. We can maintain 65mph for the full length in 4th gear 3000rpm. Need to back right off at the top or the Tranny will be doing over 80mph in no time... and that's before settling down into 6th. Van's only a 130 2.0L.

 

[Folkranger]

2300 rpm? That's a GPS 76mph, 79 on the clock, in 6th for us. Telegraph Hill in Devon is a notoriously steep winding hill, HGV's crawl up at around 25mph. We can maintain 65mph for the full length in 4th gear 3000rpm. Need to back right off at the top or the Tranny will be doing over 80mph in no time... and that's before settling down into 6th. Van's only a 130 2.0L.

Yes but what if you put a motorhome on the back of your tranny.

 

[Jamesh]

Yes, but it is surprisingly small & I wouldn't have even thought it noticed? Whereas an increase from 15" wheels to 16" wheels without reduce the tyres profile to compensate is far greater.

Agreed going from 15" to 16" would make a simalar difference. About an inch.....

Cheers James

 

[Jonno1103]

Yes but what if you put a motorhome on the back of your tranny.

The Ford engines are beasts of burden which just keep pulling.

When buying a motorhome hardly anyone takes the base vehicle into consideration, heads are turned by the habitation.

The new Fiat engines aren't the best performers and you need to pay a lot of money to upgrade in order to get decent performance. Motorhomes need torque. The new Ducato for 2022 is essentially a facelift, the only real difference is the Techno cab so there's no further grunt to look forward to.

The 140ps gives around 350Nm on an MT but nearly 380Nm with the 9 speed AT. The latter will cost a further £3300 approx plus many builders only offer the 120ps as standard, dealers spec the 140 as a standard which many buyers are unaware of.

The 160ps, a further cost option will give you 380ps on the MT & 400Nm on the 9 speed AT.

For latter kind of performance your emptying your pockets to the tune of a near extra £5000.

The new kid on the block, the Ford, will give you a standard 130ps 370Nm on the MT & 385Nm on the 6 speed AT. The auto transmission is £1700.
The 170ps will give you upto 405Nm. cost for that upgrade and the 6 speed AT is £2900.

The new Pug Blue HDi boils engines, the Renault Master's 150ps DCi offers better performance that Fiat's 160 and the Merc' FWD is basically the same Renault underneath.

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[Folkranger]

2011 Hobby

The Ford engines are beasts of burden which just keep pulling.

When buying a motorhome hardly anyone takes the base vehicle into consideration, heads are turned by the habitation.

The new Fiat engines aren't the best performers and you need to pay a lot of money to upgrade in order to get decent performance. Motorhomes need torque. The new Ducato for 2022 is essentially a facelift, the only real difference is the Techno cab so there's no further grunt to look forward to.

The 140ps gives around 350Nm on an MT but nearly 380Nm with the 9 speed AT. The latter will cost a further £3300 approx plus many builders only offer the 120ps as standard, dealers spec the 140 as a standard which many buyers are unaware of.

The 160ps, a further cost option will give you 380ps on the MT & 400Nm on the 9 speed AT.

For latter kind of performance your emptying your pockets to the tune of a near extra £5000.

The new kid on the block, the Ford, will give you a standard 130ps 370Nm on the MT & 385Nm on the 6 speed AT. The auto transmission is £1700.
The 170ps will give you upto 405Nm. cost for that upgrade and the 6 speed AT is £2900.

The new Pug Blue HDi boils engines, the Renault Master's 150ps DCi offers better performance that Fiat's 160 and the Merc' FWD is basically the same Renault underneath.

Was on a tranny. Lovely cab, lovely to drive just like a car. Too narrow for the hab though and was all over the place on motorways. Had to get air ride to calm it down.

 

[Jamesh]

The Ford engines are beasts of burden which just keep pulling.

When buying a motorhome hardly anyone takes the base vehicle into consideration, heads are turned by the habitation.

The new Fiat engines aren't the best performers and you need to pay a lot of money to upgrade in order to get decent performance. Motorhomes need torque. The new Ducato for 2022 is essentially a facelift, the only real difference is the Techno cab so there's no further grunt to look forward to.

The 140ps gives around 350Nm on an MT but nearly 380Nm with the 9 speed AT. The latter will cost a further £3300 approx plus many builders only offer the 120ps as standard, dealers spec the 140 as a standard which many buyers are unaware of.

The 160ps, a further cost option will give you 380ps on the MT & 400Nm on the 9 speed AT.

For latter kind of performance your emptying your pockets to the tune of a near extra £5000.

The new kid on the block, the Ford, will give you a standard 130ps 370Nm on the MT & 385Nm on the 6 speed AT. The auto transmission is £1700.
The 170ps will give you upto 405Nm. cost for that upgrade and the 6 speed AT is £2900.

The new Pug Blue HDi boils engines, the Renault Master's 150ps DCi offers better performance that Fiat's 160 and the Merc' FWD is basically the same Renault underneath.

Would be cheaper just to get it tuned...?

Cheers James

 

[Jonno1103]

2011 Hobby

Was on a tranny. Lovely cab, lovely to drive just like a car. Too narrow for the hab though and was all over the place on motorways. Had to get air ride to calm it down.

The Ford bases now have a new lower wide track skeletal motorhome ladder chassis launched in 2018 which is 200kg lighter & 100mm lower. Unlike the previous incarnation this one was designed in Europe.

 

[Jamesh]

The Ford bases now have a new lower wide track skeletal motorhome ladder chassis launched in 2018 which is 200kg lighter & 100mm lower. Unlike the previous incarnation this one was designed in Europe.

Yeap stuff the English!

We're taking the transit to Turkey!

Cheers James

 

[Jonno1103]

Yeap stuff the English!

We're taking the transit to Turkey!

Cheers James

Last moho chassis was designed in the States which they refer to as having a death wobble!

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[Folkranger]

More accurate figures for top gear.
50mph (gps) 1600rpm
60mph (gps) 1900rpm
70mph (gps) 2200rpm

From memory top gear in my previous van at 65 to 70 (60 to 65gps) gave somewhere over 2500 rpm. I only remember because ì often used the tachometer to indicate if I was in top or 4th gear.

Tyre diameter could account for some but not all of the difference.

 

[Folkranger]

Bi

My van was built in Feb 2017 the Fiat part end of November 2016 and its Euro 6.
Motorhomes started to be built on Euro 6 chassis around September 2016, panel vans it was about 6 - 9 months eairler.

I think it should show it on your Certificate of Conformity

But does the euro 6 fiat not require ad blue?

 

[Lenny HB]

Bi

But does the euro 6 fiat not require ad blue?

Only the latest Euro 6D ones, from September 2019.

 

[Folkranger]

Ok. I'll check the c of c when I get back home.

 

[berni109]

No scientific basis just an observation but going from a 2.2 (Ford engine) 5 speed box fiat badged adria twin to a 2.3 (fiat?) 6 speed adria PVC the need to change gear more frequently around gears 4,5 &6 is very noticeable.

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