Has anyone fitted a Roamer 460ah battery?

[peterc10]

Just had a quick look at the spec sheets for the Roamer & Fogster 460Ah batteries (both available via the links).

This stood out to me:

Fogster Max Charge Current: 50A (20A recommended)
Roamer Max Charge Current: 250A (5A-230A recommended)

More importantly if you want to use an inverter is what is the maximum discharge current.

 

[Lenny HB]

More importantly if you want to use an inverter is what is the maximum discharge current.

200 amps.

 

[MisterB]

i have just sent off a few questions - thanks for the help and suggestions so far everyone !

Lenny HB
peterc10
Wissel
BigDean
jongood
dpsuk999

this was my message (should i have asked anything else??)


Hi,i am looking for a new lesiure battery for my motorhome, and am considering your 460AH battery.

i currently have a Nord Electra 237 control unit built into my motorhome and i have (or will have soon) 200w of solar power. i also have a Sterling 30A B2B fitted.

can you confirm the max charging rate of your battery please via 240v mains supply, Sterling 30a B2B and 200w of solar via mmpt controller. I have a 2000w (max 4000w) pure sine wave inverter. i want to be abe to run a microwave(low wattage), 240v kettle and toaster etc - albeit NOT simultaneously !

would my current set up be sufficient or would i need to add a separate charger or additional hardware.

thanks

 

[MisterB]

200 amps.

that should cover the initial start up of the microwave, i think LOL (i have a 2000w (4000w maximum) puree sine wave inverter, which already allows us to use the microwave, when we want to)

quick note to others - i know i can always use gas and 12v stuff, but this is about how WE want to use our van, not how we COULD use our van, thanks

 

[Lenny HB]

that should cover the initial start up of the microwave, i think LOL (i have a 2000w (4000w maximum) puree sine wave inverter, which already allows us to use the microwave, when we want to)

quick note to others - i know i can always use gas and 12v stuff, but this is about how WE want to use our van, not how we COULD use our van, thanks

Should be fine.

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[Hoovie]

Just had a quick look at the spec sheets for the Roamer & Fogster 460Ah batteries (both available via the links).

This stood out to me:

Fogster Max Charge Current: 50A (20A recommended)
Roamer Max Charge Current: 250A (5A-230A recommended)

Ref the published specs on the Fogster battery ... I think there are some typos there as the numbers just do not add up and make sense.

The key things that don't make sense is:
Charging Current 20A
Max Charging 50A
Charge time approx. 6.0h.

You cannot have a 460Ah Battery that will charge in 6 Hours even at the 50A Max Charge Rate, let alone the 'recommended' Current of 20A.

My guess would be someone copied over text from another much smaller battery and didn't bother to proof-read anything.
I can't believe someone would sell a lithium battery of that 460AH capacity with a charge rate more approprate for a 100Ah Lead Acid one.

 

[peterc10]

i have just sent off a few questions - thanks for the help and suggestions so far everyone !

Lenny HB
peterc10
Wissel
BigDean
jongood
dpsuk999

this was my message (should i have asked anything else??)


Hi,i am looking for a new lesiure battery for my motorhome, and am considering your 460AH battery.

i currently have a Nord Electra 237 control unit built into my motorhome and i have (or will have soon) 200w of solar power. i also have a Sterling 30A B2B fitted.

can you confirm the max charging rate of your battery please via 240v mains supply, Sterling 30a B2B and 200w of solar via mmpt controller. I have a 2000w (max 4000w) pure sine wave inverter. i want to be abe to run a microwave(low wattage), 240v kettle and toaster etc - albeit NOT simultaneously !

would my current set up be sufficient or would i need to add a separate charger or additional hardware.

thanks

My view is that you may need to have more solar in order to provide enough energy to run all the things you want to when you are on site. It is no good having a large battery for storing energy if you cannot replace the energy that you take out of that battery. That will, of course, depend upon how often you use these appliances, how long you stay in one place without EHU, and the seasons and places you will visit.

But, it seems to me that the ratio between solar output and the battery size is wrong. If it was me, I would be looking at doubling the solar output.

 

[Hoovie]

I can't get much more solar on than around 250 unfortunately and that takes up virtually all my roof space so I am limited.

This is generally a problem which is hard to fix

I would like more roof Solar myself to help charge my battery bank (500Ah) but I am limited to 270W. I fitted two MPPT controllers (make sure you have MPPT and not PWM as the difference is up to 30% more harvesting) - one for the Roof Array and another is for a portable array for those occasions where it is possible to deploy more. I have a 100W portable panel which I plug into a rear skirt valance connection, so that is a potential extra 30% more.

 

[MisterB]

My view is that you may need to have more solar in order to provide enough energy to run all the things you want to when you are on site. It is no good having a large battery for storing energy if you cannot replace the energy that you take out of that battery. That will, of course, depend upon how often you use these appliances, how long you stay in one place without EHU, and the seasons and places you will visit.

But, it seems to me that the ratio between solar output and the battery size is wrong. If it was me, I would be looking at doubling the solar output.

thanks, my problem is that i cant get really get much more solar until panels start having a smaller footprint with greater capacity. my thinking is that even though the solar is undersized, by getting a larger battery, it will compensate. Having a small battery will only ever give a defined amount of power whereas a bigger capacity battery will when full, give a greater amount albeit it might not always charge fully, but when if does it actually gives me more.

 

[MisterB]

This is generally a problem which is hard to fix

I would like more roof Solar myself to help charge my battery bank (500Ah) but I am limited to 270W. I fitted two MPPT controllers (make sure you have MPPT and not PWM as the difference is up to 30% more harvesting) - one for the Roof Array and another is for a portable array for those occasions where it is possible to deploy more. I have a 100W portable panel which I plug into a rear skirt valance connection, so that is a potential extra 30% more.

thanks, having a portable array is something that i had considered. i could actually fit additional solar in the form of flexible panels, but my research so far has suggested they are prone to failure. hopefully solar panels with a small footprint but high output will be available one day in the near (affordable) future, another reason why i would like to get as big a battery as i can afford from the start!

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[Jimbohorlicks]

I can't get much more solar on than around 250 unfortunately and that takes up virtually all my roof space so I am limited.

How about a portable panel? Saw someone using a flexible panel as a portable ,he said it did the job and just boosted what he had ,it was light and easy to store.

 

[jongood]

thanks, having a portable array is something that i had considered. i could actually fit additional solar in the form of flexible panels, but my research so far has suggested they are prone to failure. hopefully solar panels with a small footprint but high output will be available one day in the near (affordable) future, another reason why i would like to get as big a battery as i can afford from the start!

Could you do something like Two on Tour and fit them onto plastic backers so it holds them off the roof

 

[MisterB]

Could you do something like Two on Tour and fit them onto plastic backers so it holds them off the roof

its the shape of the front of the van thats an issue, we also have a 85cm sat dish and tv aerial on there on the 'flat bit' - i dont really need the tv aerial and have considered removing it, but i think prtable panels might be a useful option OR i just manage with what i have !!

 

[Hoovie]

thanks, having a portable array is something that i had considered. i could actually fit additional solar in the form of flexible panels, but my research so far has suggested they are prone to failure. hopefully solar panels with a small footprint but high output will be available one day in the near (affordable) future, another reason why i would like to get as big a battery as i can afford from the start!

Decent Semi-Flexible panels are reliable but they are much more expensive per Watt than rigid framed ones.

The advantage of a big battery AND a good mains charger is that you can stay off-grid for longer even without a lot of solar and when you go to a campsite for your occasional ablutions of emptying cassette, etc, you could stay overnight or maybe negotiate a few hours of hookup and put a good recharge into the battery?
I run a Victron Multiplus which gives me a 70A charger and I can supplement that with an extra 20A from a Victron IP22 20A charger.
You may not use the hookup a lot, but when you have it, it maximises its effectiveness

 

[donkey]

You may want to take a look at these:

Fogstar Drift 12v 460Ah Lithium Leisure Battery

The Fogstar Drift 12v 460Ah lithium leisure battery comes with a JBD Battery Management System (BMS), Bluetooth, a built in Heater and 10 year warranty as standard - £1249.99 including free UK shipping.

www.fogstar-drift.co.uk

I just looked at these and noticed: Never leave a battery unattended whilst charging.

That's a bit onerous, so you have to stay in the van or switch off the charging EHU or Solar when not in attendance. Some of this small print is not practical, in the real world.

Geoff

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[MisterB]

I just looked at these and noticed: Never leave a battery unattended whilst charging.

That's a bit onerous, so you have to stay in the van or switch off the charging EHU or Solar when not in attendance. Some of this small print is not practical, in the real world.

Geoff

i would imagine its just a standard safety message in case they are left unattended using a charger that cannot adapt to the level of charge etc

 

[Louis P]

Decent Semi-Flexible panels are reliable but they are much more expensive per Watt than rigid framed ones.

The advantage of a big battery AND a good mains charger is that you can stay off-grid for longer even without a lot of solar and when you go to a campsite for your occasional ablutions of emptying cassette, etc, you could stay overnight or maybe negotiate a few hours of hookup and put a good recharge into the battery?
I run a Victron Multiplus which gives me a 70A charger and I can supplement that with an extra 20A from a Victron IP22 20A charger.
You may not use the hookup a lot, but when you have it, it maximises its effectiveness

I like the victron stuff and am interested in the multiplus with the 460Ah from Roamer. Ive a truma mppt with only a 100w at the moment. How do you find the victron multiplus and how big is the unit?

 

[Hoovie]

I like the victron stuff and am interested in the multiplus with the 460Ah from Roamer. Ive a truma mppt with only a 100w at the moment. How do you find the victron multiplus and how big is the unit?

The physical size of the Multiplus depends on the capacity.
And what capacity you need depends on what you are using it for and what batteries you have. For example, in my last camper, which was LPGless by design, I fitted a Multiplus 12/3000/120 which ran my 2kW water heater and 2kW Hob. In my current Motorhome, I have LPG which can run the Water Heater and gas rings, so I fitted a 12/1600/70 as I wanted one large enough to run the Microwave, but didn't need one as big as the old one

Excellent product. Unlikely you will regret a purchase unless it is because you bought one smaller than you needed.


PS. There is a constant mistake made when talking about Victron Multiplus'es and Victron Inverters .. the number in the description is NOT the wattage, it is a VA rating. The actual nominal in watts is around 20% less and can be found in the data sheets. For example my 12/3000/120 was a 2400W inverter. My current 12/1600/70 is a 1300W inverter. Fitting a 12/1200 Inverter tomorrow ... that is a 1000W inverter.
You need to remember this difference when working out which one is right for you.

 

[peterc10]

PS. There is a constant mistake made when talking about Victron Multiplus'es and Victron Inverters .. the number in the description is NOT the wattage, it is a VA rating. The actual nominal in watts is around 20% less and can be found in the data sheets. For example my 12/3000/120 was a 2400W inverter. My current 12/1600/70 is a 1300W inverter. Fitting a 12/1200 Inverter tomorrow ... that is a 1000W inverter.
You need to remember this difference when working out which one is right for you.

Although I am sure you are correct I am still struggling to understand that concept. In my mind W = V x A. So is VA something different than V x A?

 

[Hoovie]

Although I am sure you are correct I am still struggling to understand that concept. In my mind W = V x A. So is VA something different than V x A?

It is all about the type of loads. In some cases Watts = VoltAmps, in some cases they don't. It's best to look at the typical type of load to see how well Watts match VoltAmps.
To learn more, do a little internet search - there will be lots of info regarding this subject.

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[Steve and Denise]

I fitted a 300ah Romer last October plus a 30amp B2B to protect the alternato/ a 30amp Victron 220v charger used once, as our 525watts of solar keeps us going ie kettle and other low wattage stuff apart from hair drier 1600w

 

[Lenny HB]

Although I am sure you are correct I am still struggling to understand that concept. In my mind W = V x A. So is VA something different than V x A?

It's the difference between True power and apparent power. V x A is OK for a resistive load like a bar electric fire but most AC loads have an inductance factor so V x A will give you apparent power, for true power you have to take into account the power factor.

He, he, I can't resist a chance to confuse Peter.

 

[BigDean]

The physical size of the Multiplus depends on the capacity.
And what capacity you need depends on what you are using it for and what batteries you have. For example, in my last camper, which was LPGless by design, I fitted a Multiplus 12/3000/120 which ran my 2kW water heater and 2kW Hob. In my current Motorhome, I have LPG which can run the Water Heater and gas rings, so I fitted a 12/1600/70 as I wanted one large enough to run the Microwave, but didn't need one as big as the old one

Excellent product. Unlikely you will regret a purchase unless it is because you bought one smaller than you needed.


PS. There is a constant mistake made when talking about Victron Multiplus'es and Victron Inverters .. the number in the description is NOT the wattage, it is a VA rating. The actual nominal in watts is around 20% less and can be found in the data sheets. For example my 12/3000/120 was a 2400W inverter. My current 12/1600/70 is a 1300W inverter. Fitting a 12/1200 Inverter tomorrow ... that is a 1000W inverter.
You need to remember this difference when working out which one is right for you.

I love range and functionality of Victron equipment, but have to say I have had 2 major disappointments recently. Firstly was the Orion B2B. Had to remove it and replace with an alternative as it just gets too hot. Not just a little, dangerously hot.

Secondly is the Multiplus. It will not work with the expensive hair straighteners that my partner uses.

On both issues I have tried with the Victron Distributor and Victron themselves and their answer is to return it. No interest in sorting the issues. They pointedly ignore the issues.

In my opinion, Superb software platform. Some very good hardware, some suspect, and a company that doesn't seem to care about after sales.

Very sad.

 

[Louis P]

I love range and functionality of Victron equipment, but have to say I have had 2 major disappointments recently. Firstly was the Orion B2B. Had to remove it and replace with an alternative as it just gets too hot. Not just a little, dangerously hot.

Secondly is the Multiplus. It will not work with the expensive hair straighteners that my partner uses.

On both issues I have tried with the Victron Distributor and Victron themselves and their answer is to return it. No interest in sorting the issues. They pointedly ignore the issues.

In my opinion, Superb software platform. Some very good hardware, some suspect, and a company that doesn't seem to care about after sales.

Very sad.

What did you decide on using then for a charger and inverter after the multiplus did not meet your needs?

 

[BigDean]

What did you decide on using then for a charger and inverter after the multiplus did not meet your needs?

I will be changing to a Victron charger as that will communicate with the CerboGX and MPPT. For the inverter I need to try and find one that works. Possibly the NDS.

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[jongood]

Although I am sure you are correct I am still struggling to understand that concept. In my mind W = V x A. So is VA something different than V x A?

Its electricians jargon designed to bamboozle the layman into believing that we need professional help to blow stuff up

 

[peterc10]

It's the difference between True power and apparent power. V x A is OK for a resistive load like a bar electric fire but most AC loads have an inductance factor so V x A will give you apparent power, for true power you have to take into account the power factor.

He, he, I can't resist a chance to confuse Peter.

Next time you need some advice about foundations or concrete or disputes with a builder, I will get my own back ..................

 

[MisterB]

i have just sent off a few questions - thanks for the help and suggestions so far everyone !

Lenny HB
peterc10
Wissel
BigDean
jongood
dpsuk999

this was my message (should i have asked anything else??)


Hi,i am looking for a new lesiure battery for my motorhome, and am considering your 460AH battery.

i currently have a Nord Electra 237 control unit built into my motorhome and i have (or will have soon) 200w of solar power. i also have a Sterling 30A B2B fitted.

can you confirm the max charging rate of your battery please via 240v mains supply, Sterling 30a B2B and 200w of solar via mmpt controller. I have a 2000w (max 4000w) pure sine wave inverter. i want to be abe to run a microwave(low wattage), 240v kettle and toaster etc - albeit NOT simultaneously !

would my current set up be sufficient or would i need to add a separate charger or additional hardware.

thanks

This is their response

Hi

I hope you are well, apologies for the delay in replying.

The maximum charge we recommend is 50A. The Sterling 30A B2B will be perfectly fine with a 20A MPPT solar charge controller.

The battery will be able to continuously discharge 2400W to the inverter and will be able to discharge 3000W for short periods, this will be more than adequate for a toaster, microwave, tv, etc!

 

[Lenny HB]

This is their response

Hi

I hope you are well, apologies for the delay in replying.

The maximum charge we recommend is 50A. The Sterling 30A B2B will be perfectly fine with a 20A MPPT solar charge controller.

The battery will be able to continuously discharge 2400W to the inverter and will be able to discharge 3000W for short periods, this will be more than adequate for a toaster, microwave, tv, etc!

I think they are being conservative for long life, it does seem right as the battery spec quotes 200 a max charge and the BMS 50A.
50A is probably fine for most users and I can't see it being a problem charging at a higher rater proving the BMS doesn't cut it off.
Probably worth a phone call and try and get hold of someone more technical as I suspect you got an off the shelf standard reply.

 

[BigDean]

Hello all,

Apologies for the misinformation I hope forum admins do not mind me posting. The spec sheet is wrong and is currently being updated as we speak. The JBD BMS has a 200A discharge, and 200A charging capability. The 200A JBD has fitted to all Fogstar Drift batteries apart from the 105Ah, which is fitted with the 100A version (charge and discharge).

The 460Ah contains EVE LF230 cells, and a 560AH containing 280 cells is due in the near future (this will be 6000 cycles @ 80% DOD - the highest possible cycle life of any 12V battery).

I have created a 15% code motorhomefun15, hopefully, that may be of some use to members here.

Once again, apologies for the mistake on the spec sheets!

Happy motoring

Bec

Hi Bec,

Can you comment on the:

• Never leave a battery unattended whilst charging.

This is not very practical in a motorhome.

Also, what is the float voltage?

Thanks.

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