Haggling

[Judge Mental]

Interesting thread.
One of the questions you get when selling second hand is; is it a 'grey import'. Do European vehicles constitute 'grey'? If so, it wipes thousands off the trade-in.

And what about stoves, ovens and grills ( the so called UK Spec). Wouldn't want one without.

When I was looking at buying, I always avoided LHD vehicles. Must be many like me?

Just interested. Good thread though.

Indeedy.....that old chestnut. Simply more uk dealer BS! They are full of it!lol.....just sell privately or PX abroad

 

[Mr B]

I totally agree. It's make your mind up in my opinion. The model we decided on was was between £45-46k in England on s 08/09. We got an 11 plate from France for approx £8k less. Ok, it's LHD and my wife has to be a spotter when we overtake stuff. But it's what we wanted and we are more than happy.
Same year van is about £55k over here.
Insurance is thru CC club at £400, so that's a result to.
As we said before. We will be going the LHD route again ....

 

[Lenny HB]

Interesting thread.
One of the questions you get when selling second hand is; is it a 'grey import'. Do European vehicles constitute 'grey'? If so, it wipes thousands off the trade-in.

How can it be a grey import the EU is a single market that's part of the concept of the EU, freedom to buy where you want without trade restrictions.

 

[Judge Mental]

How can it be a grey import the EU is a single market that's part of the concept of the EU, freedom to buy where you want without trade restrictions.

another load of nonsense from the dodgy dealers handbook on how to bamboozle and fleece a punter...they see you coming!lol

I see it all now..The slow nodding of head (possibly accompanied with holding chin - but not always) The quizzical expression. and then the piece de resistance The slow intake of breath... then the old chestnuts poor out. they practice these techniques in the mirror

 

[Cat53]

Take your time deciding. We were set on a u-shaped lounge but a chance meeting with a guy at the NEC changed our minds. We never seen it before but a lightbulb came on and we both changed immediately. It took us almost 12 months to decide and we believe we got it wrong. Thankfully we handn't purchased yet.

So what did he say that caused the light bulb moment? Interested as U shaped lounge is in our minds too!

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[bernardfeay]

I would go to a dealer some distance away that you don't expect to buy from. Pitch an offer that you are convinced is below what he might accept. The negotiation that takes place after that will give you a guide as to the true bottom price. Armed with that information figure out where you think a bargain can be struck with a different dealer.

And, most important, if you go with another person don't let them become involved in the conversation. My wife has a gob clamp fitted when this stuff is going on. Worth every penny.

 

[Lee Fryer]

wise man!

20 new on here available now: Broken Link Removed

from approx €40K + the dreaded = approx £35K on the road here

L*********s want over £50,000

OK So where do you pay the vat is in Europe or here when you import it.
Lee

 

[Judge Mental]

OK So where do you pay the vat is in Europe or here when you import it.
Lee

Here.....you can pay online. but that dependent on attitude of german/belgian dealer, some may want to withhold it and repay you when you send evidence thats its paid here..others dont. So choose your dealer carefully!

just get free import pack from DVLA and its all in there including all the forms

 

[Lee Fryer]

Here.....you can pay online. but that dependent on attitude of german/belgian dealer, some may want to withhold it and repay you when you send evidence thats its paid here..others dont. So choose your dealer carefully!

just get free import pack from DVLA and its all in there including all the forms

Thanks very much.
Lee

 

[lorger]

I've only seen the Autograph range close up, new in a dealers, quality and fit looked pretty good on the 2015 model. Payload on the 615 is 800kg+ so no worries for me.

The Advantage range is new, if fact doesn't come into the dealers until Thursday, but I read good reports and will see after a test drive.

Brian

On the 615 you may be correct although it's slightly misleading as they only put 20L of water in a 90L tank so add another 70kilos then you have the battery the gas bottles even after that though it gives you an ok payload for a 2 berth.
On the other hand if you look at the Approach Autograph 730 which is a 4 berth and I believe what the op is looking for, it has a payload of 433 and this one has a 100L tank so if like the above they give weights with 20L in tank you need to add another 80 Kilo then two gas bottles 20 Kilo your down to 333 payload and you still have to add your passengers assuming they did the weight with a driver this on average would take at least another 200Kilos so your down to 133 no clothes no food and no accessories added.
I'd put money on most owners of this model being illegal when fully loaded for a two week holiday. If I was spending that kind of money and then couldn't take half my stuff with me I'd be mad.

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[Judge Mental]

most of the brands including the like of Hymer, Carthago say 20 litres when travelling and one gas bottle etc, just driver no passenger, how practical is that go figure? This how they present the MIRO to look reasonable.... its all sleight of hand. Some more honest than others. A fully winterised double floor euromobil I had in 2007 was actually 50 kg under when I got it, Lennys mates Carthago 70 kg over

 

[Dorwyn]

Regarding this business of blind-side overtaking, one MH owner I know uses a forward facing camera on the top front of his side-awning casing. I have not seen him lately to enquire how successful this has worked in practice. I would guess judging distance to be the main issue, but at least you could check that nothing is coming.

 

[Brian_K]

On the 615 you may be correct although it's slightly misleading as they only put 20L of water in a 90L tank so add another 70kilos then you have the battery the gas bottles even after that though it gives you an ok payload for a 2 berth.
On the other hand if you look at the Approach Autograph 730 which is a 4 berth and I believe what the op is looking for, it has a payload of 433 and this one has a 100L tank so if like the above they give weights with 20L in tank you need to add another 80 Kilo then two gas bottles 20 Kilo your down to 333 payload and you still have to add your passengers assuming they did the weight with a driver this on average would take at least another 200Kilos so your down to 133 no clothes no food and no accessories added.
I'd put money on most owners of this model being illegal when fully loaded for a two week holiday. If I was spending that kind of money and then couldn't take half my stuff with me I'd be mad.

Agreed, I looked at the larger Approach 740, as you say, some bedding, a toothbrush and a comb and it’s pretty close to the limit. Although I don’t believe Bailey are alone in this jiggery pokey. All of the Advance models are rated at 3500kg

That’s part of the reason I’m interested in the 615, able to carry four adults and a good amount of equipment without much concern on away days. Only myself and muttley when we go camping, so no need for anything bigger. It’s also the reason I don’t want LHD, nobody to ride shotgun, unless I can train the boy not to say “sausages” as Ester Rantzen did, but “Eddie Stobart”, with some degree of urgency – I’ll see how he gets on in France later this year.

Brian

 

[robnchris]

I have to agree with the judge. We did our research on what we liked best, and coming from a big twin axle swift caravan,,,, boy was it hard. Big coachbuilt, tag axles,,you name it, we went and looked. Then we saw a A class at one CC site and we were sold. As the judge says, the way the euro is, it's a no brainer. Ok, it's left hand drive and I don't think we will be hopping over the channel every other weekend, but look at our avetar, the smile on SWMBO face, and that says it all. We saved thousands and will be doing it again when we upgrade.

Ahh but then you have to try and sell a second hand Left Hand drive model, surely it`s all swings and round-a-bouts.
Not such a good deal if when you have faults you have to drive 100`s of miles to get them put right.

 

[ABZSteve]

So what did he say that caused the light bulb moment? Interested as U shaped lounge is in our minds too!

Hey Cat53, it was quite simple really. He asked us to look down the van at wasted space in the cab area. Even if you had Captain's chairs, only one was useable and what use was that. The shower and toilet area creates a bulkhead behind the drivers seat so that area is enclosed. We then went into a double bench seat Autotrail, turned both seats and created a nice open u-shaped front lounge. The kitchen and toilet area at the back of the van dose not interfere with the living space. Now I have to point out that this works for us because we only wanted a two berth. Four berth vans with same layout and overhead cab would also work. No use for a lot of others I guess but made sense to us. Hope that makes sense and helps

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[Judge Mental]

Ahh but then you have to try and sell a second hand Left Hand drive model, surely it`s all swings and round-a-bouts.
Not such a good deal if when you have faults you have to drive 100`s of miles to get them put right.

Hmm.......I'm trying to imagine that scenario but I cant!

Well I have managed for over 20 years. For instance: this week have van booked into auto electrician about a mile from us, to fix the alarm on electric step. Get receipt made out in dealers name and scan and send, I will have pound notes in my account within a week. Plus its out of warrnty since February...

As for selling people not stupid and as I bought it a lot cheaper its a good deal used, compared to lower spec and older examples here for more money! If not, or in a rush, I can PX it anywhere in europe...I have yet to lose money and why I and others bother in the first place.

 

[Mousy]

There were 8 serious buyers behind us in the que to buy our LHD Hymer, a good well looked after van with extras will always sell, LHD or not.

 

[robnchris]

Hey Cat53, it was quite simple really. He asked us to look down the van at wasted space in the cab area. Even if you had Captain's chairs, only one was useable and what use was that. The shower and toilet area creates a bulkhead behind the drivers seat so that area is enclosed. We then went into a double bench seat Autotrail, turned both seats and created a nice open u-shaped front lounge. The kitchen and toilet area at the back of the van dose not interfere with the living space. Now I have to point out that this works for us because we only wanted a two berth. Four berth vans with same layout and overhead cab would also work. No use for a lot of others I guess but made sense to us. Hope that makes sense and helps

We`ve had 3 autotrails and found the cab areas to be extremely draft and chilly except in the warmest of summers.
Our Arapaho was excellent big "U" shaped lounge, separate dining area, cab seats turned round but as said the draft was so bad in the colder months we had to pull the overhead cab bed out and then hang a heavy curtain across behind the cab seats to stop the draft coming into the kitchen area.

We now have the Apache and as there is only the two of us with the cab bed pulled out, we fitted some plastic "U" channel down the wardrobe and bathroom walls so we can slide in three plywood panels.
Excellent at blocking off the cold cab area, drivers window now never suffers from condensation, plus when driving anywhere leaving in the two lower panels keeps the cab area so much warmer as the cab heater is useless.

 

[Lenny HB]

Ahh but then you have to try and sell a second hand Left Hand drive model, surely it`s all swings and round-a-bouts.
Not such a good deal if when you have faults you have to drive 100`s of miles to get them put right.

Why take it hundreds of miles, had a few small warranty things to get sorted took to local Hymer dealer 20 miles away, German vans have a Pan European warranty unlike the rubbish warranties you get with British vans. What problem is there selling LHD drive vans never heard of any plus you can sell anywhere in Europe far wider market than for a RHD van.

 

[Lenny HB]

We`ve had 3 autotrails and found the cab areas to be extremely draft and chilly except in the warmest of summers.

From all the threads on various forums it appears to be a standard Autotrail feature, never come across it in a Hymer.

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[ABZSteve]

We`ve had 3 autotrails and found the cab areas to be extremely draft and chilly except in the warmest of summers.
Our Arapaho was excellent big "U" shaped lounge, separate dining area, cab seats turned round but as said the draft was so bad in the colder months we had to pull the overhead cab bed out and then hang a heavy curtain across behind the cab seats to stop the draft coming into the kitchen area.

We now have the Apache and as there is only the two of us with the cab bed pulled out, we fitted some plastic "U" channel down the wardrobe and bathroom walls so we can slide in three plywood panels.
Excellent at blocking off the cold cab area, drivers window now never suffers from condensation, plus when driving anywhere leaving in the two lower panels keeps the cab area so much warmer as the cab heater is useless.

Yip we have thought about that also. Having a custom made curtain to block out any drafts. Also internal and external silver screens. Will try all combinations to see what is best. Of course, heating on full power in July if required

 

[Cat53]

Hey Cat53, it was quite simple really. He asked us to look down the van at wasted space in the cab area. Even if you had Captain's chairs, only one was useable and what use was that. The shower and toilet area creates a bulkhead behind the drivers seat so that area is enclosed. We then went into a double bench seat Autotrail, turned both seats and created a nice open u-shaped front lounge. The kitchen and toilet area at the back of the van dose not interfere with the living space. Now I have to point out that this works for us because we only wanted a two berth. Four berth vans with same layout and overhead cab would also work. No use for a lot of others I guess but made sense to us. Hope that makes sense and helps

Very helpful, thank you.

My other question is...if you have been driving all day, isn't it nicer and more relaxing to change seats.....like putting on loppers after wearing shoes all day?

 

[GWAYGWAY]

wise man!

20 new on here available now: Broken Link Removed

from approx €40K + the dreaded = approx £35K on the road here

L*********s want over £50,000

I looked there and the first one was a Welcome not a basic Flash it has loads more and a 155ps engine. The price is the same as L+++++MS want in £s for a Flash. The Flash is the only one coming to GB with a Ford, the others with higher spec are all Fiats.
I now need to think about selling mine to a kind home, and driving to Germany to look closer at what is there. Even with the VAT payment made and then reclaiming it would be worth it.

 

[Judge Mental]

Want any help with the process just ask.... Have helped first timers before, two on here before Christmas. They had a 1001 question but both went and returned with new vans in the one day and wondered what the hell the fuss was about...yes its that straight forward

 

[ABZSteve]

Very helpful, thank you.

My other question is...if you have been driving all day, isn't it nicer and more relaxing to change seats.....like putting on loppers after wearing shoes all day?

Yip, that would work. You don't have to use the cab seats

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[Lenny HB]

Very helpful, thank you.

My other question is...if you have been driving all day, isn't it nicer and more relaxing to change seats.....like putting on loppers after wearing shoes all day?

Not a problem if you have good quality cab seats as they will be the most comfortable in the house.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

There is one thing I would like to know do you need to change the headlight and speedo etc on arrival to left dip etc or are they euro flat nowadays without the tip up side beam.

 

[Judge Mental]

Chose the right dealer and they can source headlights.( A class can be adjusted) a good dealer will take your LHD ones into stock, saves you money.

Buy a speedo from Lockwood and get them to send direct to dealer to fit. First get dealer to take photo of speedo with lights on, send this to Lockwood to get the right speedo. Get dealer to move foglight as well. Then you can arrange inspection the day you get van home to get form filled to send to VCA

 

[paintman]

Very helpful, thank you.

My other question is...if you have been driving all day, isn't it nicer and more relaxing to change seats.....like putting on loppers after wearing shoes all day?

We too were looking for a rear u shape lounge when we went to look at a front lounged Hymer for comparison and like abzsteve we realised that they have great advantages. By rotating the front seats the cab area becomes part of your lounge that's a 1 mtr gain in my book, the Isri seats fitted in ours are the same seats as fitted to top quality hgv's, they would cost a small fortune to buy and are surely way more comfortable than a bit of foam in a rear lounge.

 

[Lenny HB]

There is one thing I would like to know do you need to change the headlight and speedo etc on arrival to left dip etc or are they euro flat nowadays without the tip up side beam.

There is no such thing as Euro flat, on RHD vehicles the on dip the beam kicks up to the left, on LHD vehicles the beam kicks up to the right.
If the van you buy has standard Fiat/Ford/Merc headlamps you will need to change the lamps. If an A Class it will probably have Hella projector headlamps, these can be adjusted to flat dipping which is acceptable to the VCA. Yes you do need to change the speedo dial.

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