Greater Manchester tax on Motorhomes and campers

[nicholsong]

Dint know if this has been mentioned/ discussed. But just been looking at official site for lez manchester. If your van is over 20yrs old and smokes, guzzles gas, and stinks with occasion bank misfire etc etc its FREE as its over 20yr old. Just great let's trade in and get 1998 models.

Thanks. Good news for some of us.

Date of build of base vehicle or date of registration? Or even date of build of engine as that is what produces emissions.

Even on Registration we have less than 18 months to go.

Geoff

 

[vzac]

Thanks. Good news for some of us.

Date of build of base vehicle or date of registration? Or even date of build of engine as that is what produces emissions.

Even on Registration we have less than 18 months to go.

Geoff

Anything over 20yrs is historic they say. Should they be charging us then as most of us are now ancient, way beyond historic.

 

[Fdhadi]

It is 100% a tax. What are the going to do with ALL of this money, maybe reduce our council tax.

Please don’t give me this absolute crap about greener.
I have a Ford Fiesta 1.0ltr Eco (£140 road tax). I purchased this to get away from the so called dirty 1.6ltr diesel Fiesta (zero road tax)

Fiesta Diesel 58mpg 25k miles a yr = 431 gallons
Fiesta eco 46mpg 25k miles a yr = 543 gallons
Same Fiesta eco using E10 greener fuel 42mpg 25k miles a yr = 595 gallons

So I’ve gone from using 431 gallons to using 595 gallons of fuel a year.
That’s 164 gallons more.
In fact, on the so called greener E10 fuel I’m using 52 gallons a year more.

How can 52 gallons more be greener.
Obviously it’s just me being thick

 

[Winger]

Dint know if this has been mentioned/ discussed. But just been looking at official site for lez manchester. If your van is over 20yrs old and smokes, guzzles gas, and stinks with occasion bank misfire etc etc its FREE as its over 20yr old. Just great let's trade in and get 1998 models.

My understanding is that it’s for vehicles over 40yr old

 

[599]

hi guys . our working life was in m/c's & born there BUT as soon as we retired we could wait to get out & live in the country . like most big towns & cities they are good for earning a living but not a place we would want to retire . being away for 16 years now we have been back a few times & we can say what a s**thole it has become like most cities we wouldn't go if you paid us so they won't be getting any money out of us thank god . val

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[gpat]

It is 100% a tax. What are the going to do with ALL of this money, maybe reduce our council tax.

Please don’t give me this absolute crap about greener.
I have a Ford Fiesta 1.0ltr Eco (£140 road tax). I purchased this to get away from the so called dirty 1.6ltr diesel Fiesta (zero road tax)

Fiesta Diesel 58mpg 25k miles a yr = 431 gallons
Fiesta eco 46mpg 25k miles a yr = 543 gallons
Same Fiesta eco using E10 greener fuel 42mpg 25k miles a yr = 595 gallons

So I’ve gone from using 431 gallons to using 595 gallons of fuel a year.
That’s 164 gallons more.
In fact, on the so called greener E10 fuel I’m using 52 gallons a year more.

How can 52 gallons more be greener.
Obviously it’s just me being thick

The switch to petrol is not about reducing CO2. You are correct. It's about cleaner in terms of the nitrous fumes and particulates.

 

[acropolis22]

My understanding is that it’s for vehicles over 40yr old

Bit of a difference.......

 

[mofurt]

Greater Manchester Clean Air Plan | Clean Air Greater Manchester

Greater Manchester Clean Air Plan

cleanairgm.com

From what I can see, it's "heritage buses and coaches" over 20 years old. If this applies to motorhomes/campers too that would be very nice; my parents are now in their 80s. They are down to one vehicle, and old Berlingo based motorhome, as they've had it since new in the 90s and it's useful having a toilet when they go out. Less than 1000 miles a year on average, but now they'll need to find a few hundred pounds a year to continue to use it - or give it up and head on the fast road to decline that people get on when they sit and home doing nothing.

 

[Coolcats]

It is 100% a tax. What are the going to do with ALL of this money, maybe reduce our council tax.

Please don’t give me this absolute crap about greener.
I have a Ford Fiesta 1.0ltr Eco (£140 road tax). I purchased this to get away from the so called dirty 1.6ltr diesel Fiesta (zero road tax)

Fiesta Diesel 58mpg 25k miles a yr = 431 gallons
Fiesta eco 46mpg 25k miles a yr = 543 gallons
Same Fiesta eco using E10 greener fuel 42mpg 25k miles a yr = 595 gallons

So I’ve gone from using 431 gallons to using 595 gallons of fuel a year.
That’s 164 gallons more.
In fact, on the so called greener E10 fuel I’m using 52 gallons a year more.

How can 52 gallons more be greener.
Obviously it’s just me being thick

If it is a tax it’s because central government have reduced payments to councils so councils are looking for ‘innovative’ ways to raise cash to provide services.

 

[vzac]

My understanding is that it’s for vehicles over 40yr old

That's what it says on their web site. Historic vehicles over 20yrs old free.

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[Odd-no-more]

I saw an article yesterday, they are now thinking of charging a fee for any vehicle to drive into London, as too many people are avoiding the ULEZ and they're not making as much money as they expected, so it is all about the environment then

 

[GJH]

If it is a tax it’s because central government have reduced payments to councils so councils are looking for ‘innovative’ ways to raise cash to provide services.

Council's aren't introducing CAZs "for ‘innovative’ ways to raise cash", they are introducing them because the legislation passed by central government tells them they have to. The charge is aimed to deter people from driving non-compliant vehicles in the zones.

 

[Coolcats]

Council's aren't introducing CAZs "for ‘innovative’ ways to raise cash", they are introducing them because the legislation passed by central government tells them they have to. The charge is aimed to deter people from driving non-compliant vehicles in the zones.

Spoilsport I was enjoying being cynical

 

[Odd-no-more]

My daughter who lives just inside the ULEZ has found it is causing a lot of congestion and traffic problems on the north circular as people are now not turning off and risking the charge. Yesterday she called me she was under 5 minutes from home but due to standing traffic, pumping out fumes, it would take 20 minutes to get home. very green

 

[PaulyP]

Council's aren't introducing CAZs "for ‘innovative’ ways to raise cash", they are introducing them because the legislation passed by central government tells them they have to. The charge is aimed to deter people from driving non-compliant vehicles in the zones.

They are using it to raise money, it’s tax in another guise, why else is it all of greater Manchester and not just the city centre ?
They would have complied with government legislation by doing the centre area !

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[GJH]

They are using it to raise money, it’s tax in another guise, why else is it all of greater Manchester and not just the city centre ?
They would have complied with government legislation by doing the centre area !

Not when pollution levels are high on roads outside the centre they couldn't. It's documented on the web site.

 

[robnchris]

Let's be honest it's about making money and nothing else, if it was about cleaning up the air quality then the only answer would be to stop people driving in those areas.
The same can be said for the use of plastic bags we all know they are a pollution so what did the powers that be do about it.
If it was your home you wouldn't use them again, but no the government said you can't have them for free but you can pay for them.
How on earth does that show a commitment to cleaning up the world, it just means the rich can buy and pollute whilst the poor cannot.
The same relates to this clean air driving zones, you can pay to pollute the air.
The answer is simple, we as a country have to get into work in the inner city areas so why haven't the government provided a means of transport to allow people to get there without using polluting vehicles.
I would say without fear of contradiction "A change is going to come"

 

[Rapido925M]

I wonder what people would prefer?

I have a CritAir sticker for France: a one-off payment and I can be fined if I'm driving when and where I shouldn't.
My MH is too old for an Umwelt Plaquette: I can be fined if I drive where I shouldn't.
BUT they have to catch me.

If I drive into a UK zone my vehicle is recognised by ANPR and I pay the daily charge or I get an automatic fine.

Is it "better" to ensure that everyone suffers from the same penalties or should it depend on good luck?

Gordon

For a bit of perspective: takeout fish and chips used to cost 1s 3d; now I don't get much change from £15 for the two of us. Prices tend to go up!
£10 is less than 1 hour's pay if you are on the MINIMUM national wage.

 

[nicholsong]

I prefer the CritAir system, because the sticker is not expensive and the restrictions only come into effective if the pollution levels in a certain city are exceeded and at last time I asked nobody could tell me that any one had ever been invoked.

Is that an indication that the systems are being used when not needed?

Geoff

 

[Korova]

As regards the Clean Air Act wasn't widely communicated in the GM area here is the headline from the MEN of 14th Nov, I rest my case;
"First signs spotted for £10 a day Clean Air Zone charge amid warning thousands of drivers 'don't have the foggiest' what it means"

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[dunnah01]

I wonder what people would prefer?

I have a CritAir sticker for France: a one-off payment and I can be fined if I'm driving when and where I shouldn't.
My MH is too old for an Umwelt Plaquette: I can be fined if I drive where I shouldn't.
BUT they have to catch me.

If I drive into a UK zone my vehicle is recognised by ANPR and I pay the daily charge or I get an automatic fine.

Is it "better" to ensure that everyone suffers from the same penalties or should it depend on good luck?

Gordon

For a bit of perspective: takeout fish and chips used to cost 1s 3d; now I don't get much change from £15 for the two of us. Prices tend to go up!
£10 is less than 1 hour's pay if you are on the MINIMUM national wage.

But £60 a day for many motorhomes is a few more hours work

 

[MisterB]

The answer is simple, we as a country have to get into work in the inner city areas so why haven't the government provided a means of transport to allow people to get there without using polluting vehicles.

perhaps thats why some cities have reintroduced Trams, Greater Manchester being one of them and some less important cities (london) have an underground .....

Rapid transit in the United Kingdom consists of five systems in four cities: the London Underground and Docklands Light Railway, Tyne and Wear Metro, the Glasgow Subway and Merseyrail in the Liverpool City Region. Rapid transit has also been proposed in other U.K. cities including Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, and Cambridge.


Boris bikes and scooters ......

Build more smaller schools and ban parents from taking their children there in a car .....
Subsidise local small shopowners (to be able to compete with supermarket chains) to reduce journeys to out of town 'hubs'
Under planning laws, ensure builders provide a shop on each large housing estate, proportionate to the number of bedrooms on the estate ....(no idea what 'large' means)

none of which are realistically going to happen of course - though some planning rules do require 'amenities'

 

[Odd-no-more]

Here in Southampton all we have is the bus, that's ok as long as we only want to go to the city, if we need to go anywhere else it is not so good. Also the times the buses run often mean people cannot get to work on time, unless we have an alternative we will keep using the car.

 

[mofurt]

That's the big problem; since Beeching and through the 70s onwards Britain has moved towards everyone having their own vehicle. Large out of town housing estates. Out of town shopping. Businesses moving to remote business parks. Most people no longer live within a couple of miles of work like they used to. It works in places like London where there is a good public transport infrastructure, but not yet in most other places.

It'll take a lot of effort over a lot of years to get to the point where motorised personal transport isn't a necessity. In urban areas I can see that the car clubs will be more of a thing - I know many people who no longer own a car but hire as and when they need one, even if it's just for a couple of hours to carry something big around. That also has the advantage that you can get an appropriate vehicle - need a 7 seater, you hire one. Need to carry stuff, you get a van. Going long distance, you get a big comfy motorway cruiser - and still pay less per month than "owning" your own car on finance and only using it a few times a month.

Obviously that doesn't work for everyone, or in more remote areas, but I can see that model becoming more and more popular in cities. No problem that you don't have your own parking spot. No maintenance problems. No vandalism problems.

There seems to be a lower uptake of driving licenses amongst youngsters too.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Just checked ours again.

£60 per day for Manchester

Checked a Euro III under 3.5 ton and its coming out at

Greater Manchester

No Charge Link Removed

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[jongood]

That's what it says on their web site. Historic vehicles over 20yrs old free.

It actually specifically states buse and coaches over 20 years old but not for hire or reward. Its left me wondering what else you would use an old bus for? Do they want people with motorhomes to swap them for old buses?

 

[Korova]

There seems to be a lower uptake of driving licenses amongst youngsters too

That may be a statistic that applies to the major cities. From personal experience of our "urban" area every student who went to 6th form college and university with my daughter, inc. friends of friends, has a car. It is a necessity to enable them to get to and from work on time. No reliable infrastructure around here. The worst example is trains to Manchester, late or major delay is an almost weekly occurence.

 

[acropolis22]

There seems to be a lower uptake of driving licenses amongst youngsters too.

They all drive cars though...

 

[mofurt]

Hmm, it looks like there might be a temporary exemption for some until June 2023? Difficult to find the details. My 80 year mother has no chance of understanding this.