Government Consultation on Driving Licence Changes

[Lenny HB]

I remember when I read through the report it was only going to apply to commercial van drivers & they would have to take a course of 5 hours of lessons.

 

[PaulW2]

I remember when I read through the report it was only going to apply to commercial van drivers & they would have to take a course of 5 hours of lessons.

I think that might now be the status quo and this document is talking about government's plans for further changes?

 

[Squeakin]

size and weight never bother me, I used to drive fire engines for a living, I did have to slow down a bit though

 

[TinaLes]

Well Ian, its 3.30AM over here in Surrey, and its blowing a gale, think I have lost another fence panel and the empty waste bins are blowing all over the drive, so no sleep, just tea and catch up on Fun.
Just to cheer you up....I remember my lovely late mum in her early 40's got fed up with dentists drilling and filing her knackered teeth, so she got the dentist to take them all out and had top bottom dentures fitted. She struggled to get a decent fit that didnt hurt her gums, so she had a new denture set made.
I can remember to this day when she came home with her new lovely white set fitted, I nearly fell over laughing as they were so much bigger, she looked like a horse smiling at me!
She was always removing them and filling bits off with her nail file where they were rubbing, and it was quite a fright if we met half way across the landing at night for a pee in the dark, catching her with no teeth in, and a pair of knickers over her head to keep her hair curlers in place was a memorable sight!
Anyway, look after yourself, you say you want a metal set of dentures fitted, but please don't come home looking like this guy, we already have one Jaws member on board
LES
Scroll down a bit

 

[DDJC]

For those interested here is the outcome of the review published in October last year.
A very small number of individual responders recieved.

Consultation outcome: driving licence flexibility for alternatively-fuelled vehicles

www.gov.uk

I did!!

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[DDJC]

Pretty clear that it's only zero emissions vehicles that it's going to apply to.

That is a different consultation. This is the one that the OP refers to:

Driving licensing review - call for evidence on opportunities for changes to the driver licensing regime

A call for evidence that seeks views on potential opportunities to improve our driving licensing regime.

www.gov.uk

 

[DDJC]

For those interested here is the outcome of the review published in October last year.
A very small number of individual responders recieved.

Consultation outcome: driving licence flexibility for alternatively-fuelled vehicles

www.gov.uk

That isn't it! That is about non Petrol/Diesel vehs. It is this one: https://www.gov.uk/government/calls...es-for-changes-to-the-driver-licensing-regime

 

[Smokaijo]

I remember when I read through the report it was only going to apply to commercial van drivers & they would have to take a course of 5 hours of lessons.

My partner has a C1on his license “grandfather rights” however he has in his lifetime driven a variety of large vehicles including HGV so I know that when he turns 70 he will like everybody else apply again and get his licence renewed- he drives for a living and our rig is plated to 5500kg so whist i think they shouldn’t interfere with the limits.

I certainly wouldn’t expect them to allow a youngster to go from a car straight to anything over 3.5 tonne it would just be asking for trouble !!

 

[The Wino]

My partner has a C1on his license “grandfather rights” however he has in his lifetime driven a variety of large vehicles including HGV so I know that when he turns 70 he will like everybody else apply again and get his licence renewed- he drives for a living and our rig is plated to 5500kg so whist i think they shouldn’t interfere with the limits.

I certainly wouldn’t expect them to allow a youngster to go from a car straight to anything over 3.5 tonne it would just be asking for trouble !!

But they used to do exactly that until relatively recently and apparently without many problems!

 

[Lenny HB]

But they used to do exactly that until relatively recently and apparently without many problems!

Also used to be able to drive buses & coaches up to 12 ton for private use.

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[Pausim]

But they used to do exactly that until relatively recently and apparently without many problems!

There was a time when you could buy a full driving license over a Post Office counter without passing any tests. Doesn’t mean it would be a good idea today.

 

[PaulW2]

The whole licence thing is illustrative of how bureaucracy, given half a chance, will take over. Its job is to create bureaucratic work.

If you have a B licence and drive a 5 ton van, how much more dangerous are you? No more dangerous than a person with a C 1 licence except maybe for your first 10 (?) hours of use. What percentage is that of total use? Zero point zero something. What ‘special’ skills are you taught on a C licence course? Nothing you won’t pick up quite quickly yourself.

And once you’re 70 what risk is being managed by the medicals? How much more dangerous is a person in a 5 ton van than a 3.5 ton van? Zero point zero something.

Lots of busy work. Bureaucratic shuffling. Licences, approvals, medicals, appeals, fees. To almost no end.

 

[jongood]

The whole licence thing is illustrative of how bureaucracy, given half a chance, will take over. Its job is to create bureaucratic work.

If you have a B licence and drive a 5 ton van, how much more dangerous are you? No more dangerous than a person with a C 1 licence except maybe for your first 10 (?) hours of use. What percentage is that of total use? Zero point zero something. What ‘special’ skills are you taught on a C licence course? Nothing you won’t pick up quite quickly yourself.

And once you’re 70 what risk is being managed by the medicals? How much more dangerous is a person in a 5 ton van than a 3.5 ton van? Zero point zero something.

Lots of busy work. Bureaucratic shuffling. Licences, approvals, medicals, appeals, fees. To almost no end.

Have you ever done a HGV course? I took my class 1 in 1991 and still use some of the lessons I learned.
When I observe other motorhomers manoeuvring I cant help but notice the standard is generally quite poor, as can be witnessed by all the corner damage,. They also get into some ridiculous situations from blindly following the satnav. Imo many of them would benefit from some training

 

[ChrisSue]

There was a time when you could buy a full driving license over a Post Office counter without passing any tests. Doesn’t mean it would be a good idea today.

Are you sure people can't do that now? Seeing the standard of driving nowadays I'm convinced many drivers got their licences in a raffle

 

[PaulW2]

Have you ever done a HGV course? I took my class 1 in 1991 and still use some of the lessons I learned.
When I observe other motorhomers manoeuvring I cant help but notice the standard is generally quite poor, as can be witnessed by all the corner damage,. They also get into some ridiculous situations from blindly following the satnav. Imo many of them would benefit from some training

Yes, I have. Did a class 2. Almost nothing I didn't already know or couldn't have picked up on my own. Did it improve my motorhome driving? Not one iota.

But they make the theory test more demanding and you need to be better at 'hazard perception'. I'd love to see the empirical evidence for that, other than just some 'bigger vehicle - make it tougher' logic.

(Motorcycle licences and training are, I think, much better for overall risk and hazard perception. Because of skin in the game )

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[The Wino]

Are you sure people can't do that now? Seeing the standard of driving nowadays I'm convinced many drivers got their licences in a raffle

Strange how every single person on motorhome fun is a good driver I can't recall anyone saying they are even average. Maybe that's the solution if everyone joined there would be no bad drivers

 

[nicholsong]

I am guessing that at least 50% of UK MH owners got to the Continent at some point. If so a change to UK licensing would be not much use to them

 

[The Wino]

I am guessing that at least 50% of UK MH owners got to the Continent at some point. If so a change to UK licensing would be not much use to them

I think everyone is thinking that we could just alter our laws and everyone in Europe will say that's fine come and drive around here. It would be very strange to have aligned with them and after leaving just alter our rules and them allow it.

 

[PaulW2]

Strange how every single person on motorhome fun is a good driver I can't recall anyone saying they are even average. Maybe that's the solution if everyone joined there would be no bad drivers

No one anywhere is ever a bad driver! It's one of those repeatable discoveries from psychology - people's assessment of themselves versus how they assess everyone else.

If you asked every person to assess their own IQ, would the average be 100? Their sense of humour? Their understanding of others?

It's when it gets into the political domain that it becomes interesting. What percentage of immigrants are illegal? What percentage of people are of X or Y religion? Races?

On those questions, there are often very large gaps indeed between reality and what people believe. Because propaganda, media and politics...

 

[slowdriver]

I am guessing that at least 50% of UK MH owners got to the Continent at some point. If so a change to UK licensing would be not much use to them

I'm not sure that's true. Maybe I am missing something. As far as I know, there is no European unified standard driving licence, with an accompanying standard test. Each country makes up the driving laws and licence tests, conditions, and classes that suit them. They then accept each other's licences on a reciprocal basis as equivalent. That was the situation before Brexit and still is as far as UK licences are concerned. * I think*.
So should the UK law be revised, my wife, who took her test after 1997 and does not therefore have a C1 class licence, would be allowed to drive our 4-ton van in the UK, and this would be accepted by the French, Germans etc. Or is that not the case? Or was the 1997 restriction brought in to bring us into line with a pre-existing European wide limitation for car licenses only to run up to 3.5 tons.?

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[pwilmo]

Genuine question .. not a comment :
Does this 5000kg allowance for emission free vehicles apply to diesel ad blue Euro6 engines or just electric?

I maybe think only electric; to ensure the gov green emissions targets. Sorry I have not thoroughly investigated the wording

I rather think the allowance was always going to be be increased( no matter what the outcome of the survey ) to encourage people to drive the heavier electric vehicles.

 

[PaulW2]

Genuine question .. not a comment :
Does this 5000kg allowance for emission free vehicles apply to diesel ad blue Euro6 engines or just electric?

I maybe think only electric; to ensure the gov green emissions targets. Sorry I have not thoroughly investigated the wording

I rather think the allowance was always going to be be increased( no matter what the outcome of the survey ) to encourage people to drive the heavier electric vehicles.

Not diesel, certainly. Reading the link that was posted it seems there was a question as to whether 'alternative' would include, say, LPG, but their recommendation was to make it 'zero emission' only, i.e. only electric.

 

[pwilmo]

Yes thank you, that's cleared that up, so I've now read the gov outcome wording.

Deisel Euro6 engines are zero emission free .. by todays' standards. Hence CritAir class2 and charge exempt in London Clean Air Zones.

However the gov says they will not be classed as such in 2035 to meet their new 2035 green standards.

So folks don't get your hopes up for driving diesel/petrol motorhomes over 3500kg without C1

IT'S ONLY FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES !!

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

What I really don't understand is what makes an electric vehicle weighing say 5 tons any safer or the driver any more capable than a 5 tons diesel/petrol vehicle being driven by the same driver?

 

[pwilmo]

Alas, it is not about safety, but it is to promote sales of electric vehicles so the gov can keep to their green targets

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[PaulW2]

What I really don't understand is what makes an electric vehicle weighing say 5 tons any safer or the driver any more capable than a 5 tons diesel/petrol vehicle being driven by the same driver?

Of course nothing at all. Just bureaucratic fretting about slippery slopes I would imagine.

But it's all just convention, what we have decided are ok and within tolerances.

Why 3,500kg? Cars only weigh half that. Why not 2,000 kg? Because there was, at the time, presumably some deliberation about the pros and cons of allowing people who passed their licence in a mini being allowed to drive a 3.5 ton van and they thought the risks were acceptable. That was a reasonable threshold at the time.

Now it's no longer a reasonable threshold. But it's being treated by some as if Moses brought it down from the mountain.

 

[cyberyacht]

As has been said earlier up the thread, it'll be a waste of time if we still have all the 500Kg restrictions 'over there'.

 

[DDJC]

I am guessing that at least 50% of UK MH owners got to the Continent at some point. If so a change to UK licensing would be not much use to them

This has been explained to death. The abridged version.

Laws applied in any nation signatory to the 'Vienna Convention on Road Traffic' county are equally applicable to every other signatory (most of Europe).

And, more relevant, the decision on who determines driving licence categories and codes on driving licences is entirely down to the licence issuing country. This is logical if you think about it with each country having a different testing regime, different ages for driving a class of vehicle, etc.

 

[DDJC]

Yes thank you, that's cleared that up, so I've now read the gov outcome wording.

Deisel Euro6 engines are zero emission free .. by todays' standards. Hence CritAir class2 and charge exempt in London Clean Air Zones.

However the gov says they will not be classed as such in 2035 to meet their new 2035 green standards.

So folks don't get your hopes up for driving diesel/petrol motorhomes over 3500kg without C1

IT'S ONLY FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES !!

No it isn't. There were two consultations. One which looked at a reversal to 1997 driving licence vehicle weights, and another that looked specifically at alternative fuel vehicles. Not connected, and this thread is about the former.

 

[DDJC]

I think everyone is thinking that we could just alter our laws and everyone in Europe will say that's fine come and drive around here. It would be very strange to have aligned with them and after leaving just alter our rules and them allow it.

Not strange. Currently, there is no common EU driving test, and several have rather odd anomalies from their neighbour.

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