Glad we didn't register at 3500

[Jasz]

Thanks to looking at various posts on this site before buying our van, I realised that registering our van at 3500 would not give us much payload, so I took the option of registering it at 3650.
We have finally got round to getting it weighed and it came in at 3540kg, loaded ready for a trip including bikes on the back, full tank of fuel and 2 gas cylinders (1 for the Cadec).
Only 2 people, 1/4 tank (35l) of water and only 3 bottles of wine!! At least we are now ok for some more wine as long as there are no more passengers

 

[suavecarve]

To clarify @pyro s point about discretion.

Traffic Officers are HIGHLY trained in traffic law. Traffic law is basically black and white. You were doing 31 in a 30 you are breaking the law.
ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) make recommendations. Speeding is normally 10% + 2 so 35 for a 30mph before the tickets come into play or 57 in a 50.
These are safeguards so that there can be no argument about the VASCAR or laser gun used to nab you and allows for your speedo to be a bit dodgy. (so dont go driving at 79 thinking youre ok on the motorway as your speedo could be dodgy)
Unless you meet a traffic officer.
The old rule about the fictitious "Attitude test" has so obviously been eradicated.
I cannot believe that should you turn round to a traffic officer and say "It was only 34mph and your ACPO guidelines say you cant ticket me" will likely get the response "See you in Court" whereas if you turned round and said, "Officer, I am sorry, in hindsight i should have selected a lower gear and will do so in future" and likely to get the response "Who told you to day that?"
That would be the "Attitude test" and part one is likely to cause a fail and part will "probably" get you "Words of advice"

 

[magicsurfbus]

Having just about managed on our maiden trip at 3500kgs for only two adults (published payload = 395 Kgs, checked on weighbridge) I'm up-plating to 3850Kgs with air assist at the back so we can occasionally carry four adults in what is theoretically a 4 berth vehicle, or carry extra stuff, as we made quite a few compromises to stay within the limit.

Only problem as I see it is the 3.5 tonne limit pops up quite a lot in France, in relation to speed limits, overtaking restrictions, access to town and village centres, and with Toll tags and environmental stickers. However, I'd rather put up with that than risk invalidating my insurance.

The other thing is that paying close attention to payload helps you to shed a Hell of a lot of completely unnecessary clobber.

 

[pyro]

Having just about managed on our maiden trip at 3500kgs for only two adults (published payload = 395 Kgs, checked on weighbridge) I'm up-plating to 3850Kgs with air assist at the back so we can occasionally carry four adults in what is theoretically a 4 berth vehicle, or carry extra stuff, as we made quite a few compromises to stay within the limit.

Only problem as I see it is the 3.5 tonne limit pops up quite a lot in France, in relation to speed limits, overtaking restrictions, access to town and village centres, and with Toll tags and environmental stickers. However, I'd rather put up with that than risk invalidating my insurance.

The other thing is that paying close attention to payload helps you to shed a Hell of a lot of completely unnecessary clobber.

Agreed on all points. As stated, you can always reduce plated weight at a later stage

That 3.5T limit does crop up a great deal, and increasingly so, certainly around here in this part of the UK and very much where we live in Portugal. Fortunately we have a high payload in our 3.5T, at 812Kg, but at the expense of lightweight internal furnishings.

As for being polite and contrite to traffic officers only doing their job, anyone who is challenging to them deserves what they get, in my opinion.

 

[MichaelT]

Placing any reliance on any discretion of a traffic officer is placing your head and body in the jaws of a tiger

I understand the OP's sensitivity to keeping legal, and I am not being at all critical, just making the point that it comes at a cost

Of course there are benefits to increasing the plating, but the costs include bridge weight limitations, speed restrictions on dual carriageways, the effect on resale value, insurance costs, LEZ zone restrictions in the pipeline, C1 licence requirements, age/medicals and so forth. Some local authorities include restrictions on parking vehicles over 3.5T in residential areas

On balance, I would be visiting the showrooms looking at MH with greater payload, on the basis that I would rather stay at that limit or if I have to go over 3.5T then I may as well make it worth the while

How often do you come across a 3.5t bridge? If any at all they are probably down a narrow road that is not suitable for a MH anyway.

Van can be down plated to 3.5 ton if required, LEZ is normally based on the emissions not the weight isnt it?

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[MichaelT]

It's been worth the debate. I never said the OP did the wrong thing, just questioned the wisdom of doing so, especially in the context of such little gain in payload (150Kg)

My precise words were:



Of course, if you have marginal payload capacity to plated limits, then uprating is considerably cheaper than replacing the MH. I can't for the life of me see why convertors can't design in realistic payload capacity from the outset, though. I suppose if you factor in decent wood fittings, etc, then it's going to pile on the weight. That's why these lightweight MH are selling like hot cakes

As for 3.5T bridges, plenty of them around where I live in both the UK and in Portugal. I once had a hell of a row with a GNR bod about our weight, having stopped us on a 3.5T limit going in to Peniche. He wanted to take us to a weighbridge, but got really shirty when I told him if he wanted to challenge the V5 then he would have to pay. In the end I just left the van out of exasperation and walked over the bridge

On speed limits, the chart below may be helpful

View attachment 162876

These are unladen weights so a van with a plate weight of 3500 or 3650/3850 will have the same unladen weight (or thereabouts)

 

[pyro]

How often do you come across a 3.5t bridge? If any at all they are probably down a narrow road that is not suitable for a MH anyway.

Van can be down plated to 3.5 ton if required, LEZ is normally based on the emissions not the weight isnt it?

Went over a 3.5T limit bridge today on the way to work as it happens. Normal B road.

LEZ is determined by classification of vehicle (up to 2.5T is same as a car) and the emission level/Euro rating. That's what was published:BROKEN LINK

Example results from the TfL site

You do not need to take any action.

You said your vehicle:

• runs on diesel
• weighs between 2.5 and 3.5 tonnes GVW
• was registered as new on or after 1 January 2002

You do not meet the emissions standards.

You said your vehicle:

• runs on diesel
• weighs over 3.5 tonnes GVW
• was registered as new before 1 October 2006
• has a partial filter or has got an eligible engine or has had no modification

These are unladen weights so a van with a plate weight of 3500 or 3650/3850 will have the same unladen weight (or thereabouts)

That's a bit of a conclusion to jump to. If you have a payload of 400 Kg (not uncommon) and a MAM of 3.5T, then you will have an unladen weight of 3.1T, which is greater that the 3050 permitted. Pretty close but not on the mark

 

[MichaelT]

Went over a 3.5T limit bridge today on the way to work as it happens. Normal B road.

LEZ is determined by classification of vehicle (up to 2.5T is same as a car) and the emission level/Euro rating. That's what was published:BROKEN LINK

Example results from the TfL site








That's a bit of a conclusion to jump to. If you have a payload of 400 Kg (not uncommon) and a MAM of 3.5T, then you will have an unladen weight of 3.1T, which is greater that the 3050 permitted. Pretty close but not on the mark

I was saying a van leaving the factory will have the same unladen weight whatever it is plated at so your argument about the speed limits is unfounded based on the plated max weight. Of course if it leaves the factory over 3050 then it is allowed the lower speed limit whatever the max plated weight.

Emissions are of course based on Euro standard etc. and can fall foul if a MH or not, the weight is not an issue if it has a Euro 6 or 5 standard does it?

 

[Jasz]

3650Kg gave us a theoretical payload of 500kg before solar panel, bike rack and TV as extras. As neither of us weigh a great deal, that seemed plenty at the time. Our axle weights were 1620/1920 which should be ok as any additional weight should be towards the front. I appreciate that we have the option of uprating the suspension if necessary.
Personally I didn't buy a motorhome to rush around in, and am happy pottering along within the lower speed limits.

 

[Dilbert]

Just as an aside to this discussion on 3.5t and 7.5t weight limits in the uk only apply to commercial vehicles which is why us bus and coach drivers can sail through in a 12t plus vehicle ( the sign normally has a symbol of a truck on it ). Plus there's the exept for access bit to cover bin wagons etc. Non commercial vehicles like mobile libraries and motor homes are allowed. I don't know if the same rules apply in France , maybe some one could put me right.

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[Kingham]

Just as an aside to this discussion on 3.5t and 7.5t weight limits in the uk only apply to commercial vehicles which is why us bus and coach drivers can sail through in a 12t plus vehicle ( the sign normally has a symbol of a truck on it ). Plus there's the exept for access bit to cover bin wagons etc. Non commercial vehicles like mobile libraries and motor homes are allowed. I don't know if the same rules apply in France , maybe some one could put me right.

France is the same as here. If the restriction sign has a picture of a goods vehicle, it only applies to goods vehicles. If the restriction is the weight alone, in a red circle, then it applies to all motor vehicles over that weight.

I have only seen the goods vehicles restrictions in France, but was reliably informed on the forum that there are some that apply to all vehicles.

 

[Lenny HB]

I would always be worrying if I was that close - peace of mind is a wonderful thing.
Also we are likely to want to take our granddaughter away in the future when she is a bit bigger

I made the same decision when I bought mine, but then decided to go the whole hog, put air assist on the back and replated at 3850. Well worth it for the peace of mind and yes, I have put it over the weigh bridge several times and also know the rear axle weight.......

Agree with both the above also we would never consider setting out without a full water tank never known when you will next be able to fill up.

3.5t bridges? Don't see many of them on motorways.

In a Motorhome the last place I want to drive is on a motorway, like to travel on or ordinary road find a nice village and stop for the night.

I was saying a van leaving the factory will have the same unladen weight whatever it is plated at so your argument about the speed limits is unfounded based on the plated max weight. Of course if it leaves the factory over 3050 then it is allowed the lower speed limit whatever the max plated weight.

Why do people keep quoting unladen weights and payload, payload is based on MIRO not the unladen weight which are never quoted for Motorhomes, to get the unladen weight you need to empty the van of all non fixed items drain the fuel tank and then take it to the weighbridge.
Yes I know speed limits are based on unladen weight.the

 

[MichaelT]

Agree with both the above also we would never consider setting out without a full water tank never known when you will next be able to fill up.

In a Motorhome the last place I want to drive is on a motorway, like to travel on or ordinary road find a nice village and stop for the night.


Why do people keep quoting unladen weights and payload, payload is based on MIRO not the unladen weight which are never quoted for Motorhomes, to get the unladen weight you need to empty the van of all non fixed items drain the fuel tank and then take it to the weighbridge.
Yes I know speed limits are based on unladen weight.the

I never mentioned payload only the unladen ex factory weight that speed limits are based on!!

 

[Lenny HB]

I never mentioned payload only the unladen ex factory weight that speed limits are based on!!

Sorry I quoted the wrong post doing it on my phone.

 

[Jasz]

I started this thread, as a similar thread enabled me to make an informed decision about the weight category and hoped to help someone else do the same. It is something that is worth bringing up every so often.
Thanks to everyone for helping to make it an interesting debate

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[Crazylegs]

[QUOTE
GRADUATION OF FIXED PENALTY NOTICES
£100 FP -- 5% to 10% or over 1 tonne on axle, gross or train if less than 5%
£200 FP -- Over 10% and up to 15%
£300 FP -- Over 15% and up to 30%
Prosecute over 30% or over 5 tonnes on axle, gross or train if under 30%

NON COMMERCIAL DRIVERS
In genuine cases of ignorance e.g. moving house, and where the offence is unlikely to be
repeated, a prohibition should be issued and an overloading guidance leaflet handed to
the driver. To take into account the Public Interest Test no Fixed Penalty Notice should
be issued in these circumstances.
[/QUOTE]

So as non commercial drivers which we all are, might we reasonably expect a overloading guidance leaflet for an offence ? or perhaps if we happen to come up against an officious officer we might get fined £100 for an overload of up to 10% which happens to be substantially less than paying someone to uprate our vehicle, Hmmm this needs some thought.

 

[stewartwebr]

[/QUOTE]
So as non commercial drivers which we all are, might we reasonably expect a overloading guidance leaflet for an offence ? or perhaps if we happen to come up against an officious officer we might get fined £100 for an overload of up to 10% which happens to be substantially less than paying someone to uprate our vehicle, Hmmm this needs some thought.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, in the event of an insurance claim the insurer will have a very different view issuing a "You are not covered" guidance leaflet. Perhaps prudent to add into your little thought

 

[Crazylegs]

So as non commercial drivers which we all are, might we reasonably expect a overloading guidance leaflet for an offence ? or perhaps if we happen to come up against an officious officer we might get fined £100 for an overload of up to 10% which happens to be substantially less than paying someone to uprate our vehicle, Hmmm this needs some thought.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, in the event of an insurance claim the insurer will have a very different view issuing a "You are not covered" guidance leaflet. Perhaps prudent to add into your little thought [/QUOTE]

So please explain to me how on earth the insurance company would weigh your vehicle? If it’s a minor bump you exchange details and drive on if it’s more serious your probably going to be recovered by a low lowder and stored in a compound until the decision is made to repair or write the m/h off.

 

[Riverbankannie]

Just coming to the end of second long trip around France this year. I have lost count of the number of 3.5 restriction signs we have thankfully been able to drive though.
We prefer to visit and stay in smaller pLaces and the 3.5 restriction is common.

 

[stewartwebr]

Unfortunately, in the event of an insurance claim the insurer will have a very different view issuing a "You are not covered" guidance leaflet. Perhaps prudent to add into your little thought [/QUOTE]

So please explain to me how on earth the insurance company would weigh your vehicle? If it’s a minor bump you exchange details and drive on if it’s more serious your probably going to be recovered by a low lowder and stored in a compound until the decision is made to repair or write the m/h off.[/QUOTE]

You are of course correct in the example you give. However, my thought process was more focused on a major road traffic incident where God forbid there are fatalities involved for example. I can assure you from experience that vehicles will most definitely be weighed and if you are found to be outwith the legal limits the onus of responsibility starts to shift and if you were found to be the guilty party in such a case I don't think many of us could survive financially with implications not worth even thinking about. For me it's not worth the gamble. When you start looking at severity of the accident to probability of being caught, it says it all, stay above the law it is just not worth it.

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[EX51SSS]

My last two MOT have shown the van to be close to or over 3850kg

How come you were weighed at MOT? That's not a requirement surely because if it us, I know loads of people who are riding around without knowing their weight.

 

[ShiftZZ]

How come you were weighed at MOT? That's not a requirement surely because if it us, I know loads of people who are riding around without knowing their weight.

I made the mistake of asking if ther machine weighed the van, they said yes...

I am one who will abide by the rules/law... @The Happy Hooker will testify....

 

[EX51SSS]

I made the mistake of asking if ther machine weighed the van, they said yes...

I am one who will abide by the rules/law... @The Happy Hooker will testify....

My MOT place doesn't have the ability to weigh
However, that's not abiding by the rules because there isn't a rule about that and reading it again, I assume you meant that as tongue in cheek.

 

[EX51SSS]

4000kg here, I don't know how you 3500kg ers cope

We cope very well as I weighed in, as recommended, with fuel, water and basically ready to go except Swmbo and it came in at just short of 2,900 kg, so I've got plenty of allowance for wine and beer.
Plenty of arguments about upgrading or not. I could, which would be pointless and I have C+E (and D+E) but as I get closer to 70 (few years yet), unless something serious, I don't have to worry if my license restrictions don't include C1.
If people want to upgrade, that's absolutely fine as long as they are aware of not only the weight increase advantages but also of the weight restrictions and licences etc.

 

[ShiftZZ]

My MOT place doesn't have the ability to weigh
However, that's not abiding by the rules because there isn't a rule about that and reading it again, I assume you meant that as tongue in cheek.

Sort of, when the van went for its MOT it was virtually empty, and when he gave me the numbers, I was shocked, after a lot of pondering I went to a public weighbridge on Monday, all OK.. Advised the garage that their machine was 'well out', they said that they had recently paid a lot to have it recalibrated.. Now I am happy as I have had the weight of the van verified at a second weigbridge...

I suppose I am / was concerned that I was not within the law and if anythng had gone wrong,and, someone got hurt because I flauted the law, I would have hated myself...

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[EX51SSS]

Sort of, when the van went for its MOT it was virtually empty, and when he gave me the numbers, I was shocked, after a lot of pondering I went to a public weighbridge on Monday, all OK.. Advised the garage that their machine was 'well out', they said that they had recently paid a lot to have it recalibrated.. Now I am happy as I have had the weight of the van verified at a second weigbridge...

I suppose I am / was concerned that I was not within the law and if anythng had gone wrong,and, someone got hurt because I flauted the law, I would have hated myself...

I'm all in agreement about getting your Moho weighed at regular (or semi regular or even once!) intervals but my point was that it's not a requirement of the MOT and therefore you wouldn't be breaking any law if the Moho wasn't weighed at MOT time.
As far as I possibly can, I always abide by the law (do I tempt fate? 44 years clean licence and over 25 years hgv) but I don't go into areas that need no requirement. The possibilities of that are endless

 

[ShiftZZ]

I'm all in agreement about getting your Moho weighed at regular (or semi regular or even once!) intervals but my point was that it's not a requirement of the MOT and therefore you wouldn't be breaking any law if the Moho wasn't weighed at MOT time.
As far as I possibly can, I always abide by the law (do I tempt fate? 44 years clean licence and over 25 years hgv) but I don't go into areas that need no requirement. The possibilities of that are endless

I know what you mean, it was a passing question at an MOT "Does you machine .!!!!!!", wish I hadnt asked, but I did.... I now know that I have about 500kg payload... So a happy bunny...

 

[SuperMike]

4000kg here, I don't know how you 3500kg ers cope

10.5t here, I don’t know how you 4000kg ers cope.

 

[peterc10]

I assume you meant that as tongue in cheek.

Dave doesn't do tongue in cheek ........... he means everything he says ............ honest. Would I lie to you?

 

[tonyandcarol]

How many funsters have been stopped by the police or vosa and been taken to a weigh bridge.

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[ShiftZZ]

How many funsters have been stopped by the police or vosa and been taken to a weigh bride.

I have idea, but, I suspect that insurance companies would use overloaded vans to get out of a claim