Gas cylinder in garage?

[John.]

[QUOTE
Yes , outside so gas just falls to road & disperses.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Gus.
That's just what I wanted to hear so I've just emailed my order through to confirm
fitting on 22/3/16

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Bear in mind thewhat is prbably the STRONGEST item involved with a motorhome is the GAS CYLINDER, made to very exacting standards welded perfectly and virtually indestructible under most circumstances. The only think left intact in an accident would be the gas bottles, most leaks occur because of fractures pipes , equipment or connections. EVERYTHING else around you could be matchwood and twigs should a big collision occur.
I concur entirely with Eddie about risk and benefit. Boats have big trouble with gas leaks because they tend not to have drain holes in the bottom and the gas leak allows a large puddle in the bilges and floor area which will catch fire with an ignition source and enough air.
Holes in the bottom of you van will allow the gas out but it could also gather underneath it and then go off. Go to diesel heating and forget the fridge and cooking if you are so worried. I have a nose that is well tuned to sniff out the gas stenchants they use to a matter of 1 in 100,000.000 or so just handling bottles or pipes can make you hands smell of it. Just make sure the things you do are the correct ones and check now and again but don't get paranoid over perceived dangers, there are a lot more dangerous thing than gas bottles in life, especially if you smoke.

 

[Peter Sansom]

Our Chausson only has room for 1 gas bottle in the locker. Inevitably it will expire on a site without refills or whilst cooking. Alternatively we can change it near the end which seems wasteful. What is the consensus about carrying a spare gas bottle in the garage? (Don't want to go down the Gaslow route).

Not sure which model you have. Mine's a Flash 610 fortunately with a large garage. We keep our spare bottle tucked away in a corner, well wedged in with all the usual paraphernalia, bikes, ramps etc etc. I reckon that as long as the valve is in the shut position it shouldn't be a problem. We are thinking of going to France/Italy this year but wonder what alternative there is for the gas, excluding the gas flow route...

 

[Doctor Dave]

Boats have big trouble with gas leaks because they tend not to have drain holes in the bottom and the gas leak allows a large puddle in the bilges and floor area which will catch fire with an ignition source and enough air.
.

Not so - in the case of inland waterway boats in GB anyway. Any boat with gas bottles must have them secured in a gas tight locker that is vented at the bottom - meaning the bottom of the gas locker must be above water level. The integrity of the gas system has to checked and found to be sound to obtain a boat safety certificate which is necessary to obtain a boat licence. At the moment the BSC lasts for four years (cost around £150 and licence cost up to around £1000 per year).


Dave

 

[jonandshell]

Thanks all for your replies. The van has electric, gas and diesel heating. 3 way fridge and gas for cooking. It is parking the van up when spending the day in towns and using gas for the fridge together with cooking that uses it up. The gas locker only accommodates a 6 kg bottle. I think I will just have to keep a careful eye on the cylinder and just carry a spare when low. As luck would have it, the unused 3.9 propane bottle I have from caravan days is too low to connect to the pigtail in the locker. Now to buy another calor lite. I suppose I could get a gas BBQ for the small cylinder but that would defeat the object of carrying a spare occasionally. Any buyers for unused 3.9 cylinder?

It will take an 11kg cylinder, but nobody does them in the UK. 13s are too tall.

Refillable is the only way to maximise the use of your gas locker.
Why are you so set against a refillable cylinder? It's £300 max needed to install one.
It's a drop in the ocean compared to the constant depreciation on the motorhome itself.

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[Ivory55]

Think flo gas do 11kg propane cylinders, or terrington fuels do BP lite 10kg bottles, which I know is ok as its local for us.

 

[Minxy]

Not sure which model you have. Mine's a Flash 610 fortunately with a large garage. We keep our spare bottle tucked away in a corner, well wedged in with all the usual paraphernalia, bikes, ramps etc etc. I reckon that as long as the valve is in the shut position it shouldn't be a problem. We are thinking of going to France/Italy this year but wonder what alternative there is for the gas, excluding the gas flow route...

... so if it did develop a leak where would the gas go ...???

 

[vin0114]

Just a thought but would it be possible to have 2 small cylinders housed in the single cylinder locker. makes your gas more expensive but you would have a reserve bottle to fall back on while sourcing a replacement?

 

[Peter Sansom]

That's one of the gripes I have about the chausson I'm getting...
I despair at the logic of the makers, fitting a single exchangeable cylinder ..
Think I will go for underslung tank or if that's not possible get as big a refillable in as possible....
Don't want to take up more space in the garage ...I'm already considering carrying a spare wheel in there as it doesn't come with one... Some of the logic of the manufacturers is lost on me lol
Ta andy.

When I bought our last van I insisted on a spare wheel from the supplier, which they duly supplied, it weighed a ton(ne)though. Ended up taking it out and storing it at home. I suppose it comes down to are you happy to sacrifice some payload. This time I have decided to use the space, which was a lot less than the wheel, to put my spare gas bottle. Swings and roundabouts

 

[Peter Sansom]

... so if it did develop a leak where would the gas go ...???

Good question M G! In all the years I have been caravanning/motorhoming it has never happened, but as they say there's always a first time. Our space at the rear is pretty large and I would hope not 100% airtight so if it did happen there would not be too much to worry about, but...

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[Fragle]

Personally as a gas safe lpg installer. I've not seen any advice or help apart from posting the regs on this thread that complies to the regs that we as installers have to comply to and are there for very good reason. Now you may think that carrying a bottle in the garage is fine and I'm sure there are worse things to do. But if and when it goes wrong. Hopefully it won't but I'm sure there'll be a thread about my insurance wont pay out because..... I'm not covered for motorhomes but have seen it all over the years with domestic lpg. Don't risk it. It's dangerous. Sorry

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Not so - in the case of inland waterway boats in GB anyway. Any boat with gas bottles must have them secured in a gas tight locker that is vented at the bottom - meaning the bottom of the gas locker must be above water level. The integrity of the gas system has to checked and found to be sound to obtain a boat safety certificate which is necessary to obtain a boat licence. At the moment the BSC lasts for four years (cost around £150 and licence cost up to around £1000 per year).
Dave

I think it is not the gas bottle that is the danger there it is the inadvertently leaving the tyaps open in the galley and it builds up, same thing with petrol fumes on a boat it is the leaks that cause the trouble not the btanks

 

[Minxy]

Good question M G! In all the years I have been caravanning/motorhoming it has never happened, but as they say there's always a first time. Our space at the rear is pretty large and I would hope not 100% airtight so if it did happen there would not be too much to worry about, but...

I can assure you ANY escaped gas is a problem in a confined space ... even if the garage isn't airtight, if the BASE is, then the gas will puddle and that's the problem, it will build up until it becomes a really BIG problem and then ... boom. For the sake of making a basic container for it with suitable drop vents (eg as per my suggestion), is it REALLY worth the risk?

 

[TheCaller]

It will take an 11kg cylinder, but nobody does them in the UK. 13s are too tall.

Think flo gas do 11kg propane cylinders, or terrington fuels do BP lite 10kg bottles, which I know is ok as its local for us.

FloGas do indeed do 11kg cylinders. There are two in my van right now. I'm lucky to have a FloGas dealer in town, but while there are not as many around as Calor (& none on campsites, as far as I know), there is pretty good availability nationally. They also deliver, although I've never had need to try that out.

Plenty of info on their website, but don't trust their dealer locator page without ringing first - not only is it out of date, it's not very accurate with it's geography either!

 

[Doctor Dave]

I think it is not the gas bottle that is the danger there it is the inadvertently leaving the tyaps open in the galley and it builds up, same thing with petrol fumes on a boat it is the leaks that cause the trouble not the btanks

If the gas taps are inadvertently left open in the galley then the FFD would soon shut the gas off. I agree that it is leaks that cause trouble - that is why the Boat Safety Scheme exists.

Dave

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[Minxy]

Our Chausson only has room for 1 gas bottle in the locker. Inevitably it will expire on a site without refills or whilst cooking. Alternatively we can change it near the end which seems wasteful. What is the consensus about carrying a spare gas bottle in the garage? (Don't want to go down the Gaslow route).

Another funster has just put an ad on for some bits and bobs including an 11kg Gaslow bottle & fittings ... might be worth contacting them?

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/steel-wheels-tyres-and-clear-out.124544/

 

[Barclaybasher]

Ideally you wouldn't carry a gas bottle in an unvented locker but then you probably shouldn't carry a motor bike or scooter in a 'garage', or a flimsy plastic or tin petrol can for a generator.

If you were rear-ended or rolled the petrol would be more of a danger than the much stronger/safer gas bottle.

I have owned a few small yachts/boats and would never have bought one with a petrol engine unless it was just a day boat

Rules and regulations are fine........ as is commonsense....

 

[Peter Sansom]

I can assure you ANY escaped gas is a problem in a confined space ... even if the garage isn't airtight, if the BASE is, then the gas will puddle and that's the problem, it will build up until it becomes a really BIG problem and then ... boom. For the sake of making a basic container for it with suitable drop vents (eg as per my suggestion), is it REALLY worth the risk?

Would the solution be having a vent put into the floor in the area of the gas bottle then, c/w the mesh/grill as found in the allocated bottle area? Or would this invalidate manufacturers warranties, or the integrity of the van? I have a feeling that if I ask my dealer he is going to play the 'sitting on the fence' card.

 

[Minxy]

Would the solution be having a vent put into the floor in the area of the gas bottle then, c/w the mesh/grill as found in the allocated bottle area? Or would this invalidate manufacturers warranties, or the integrity of the van? I have a feeling that if I ask my dealer he is going to play the 'sitting on the fence' card.

No it won't invalidate the warranty so long as it doesn't cause problems, ie if you don't seal it both inside and outside to prevent water penetrating into the floor structure. Whilst putting a drop vent in is great without a 'container' of some sort the gas can still spread round the garage floor though even with a drop vent.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

If a tank actually did leak it must be very badly damaged that would be obvious looking at it. the only way out would be through the tap or if that blew off it would be straight up and over everything. Really dramatic happening to cause that in a proper place with vent would not avoid that situation the vent are no big enough to allow that much out. little leaks would not happen if it had a cap on the outlet. Big leaks do not happen.. It is the bloody regulator blowing or a hose breaking that the big trouble happens. NEVER the bottle it does'nt happen without major forces involved. Gaslow bottle are supposedly bonfire tested to prove it. a .50" calibre bullet might do a good hole in the side of one but you would have other problems if someone were firing at you with one.

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[Peter Sansom]

If a tank actually did leak it must be very badly damaged that would be obvious looking at it. the only way out would be through the tap or if that blew off it would be straight up and over everything. Really dramatic happening to cause that in a proper place with vent would not avoid that situation the vent are no big enough to allow that much out. little leaks would not happen if it had a cap on the outlet. Big leaks do not happen.. It is the bloody regulator blowing or a hose breaking that the big trouble happens. NEVER the bottle it does'nt happen without major forces involved. Gaslow bottle are supposedly bonfire tested to prove it. a .50" calibre bullet might do a good hole in the side of one but you would have other problems if someone were firing at you with one.

Mental note to self: Stay away from war zones

 

[GWAYGWAY]

That's one of the gripes I have about the chausson I'm getting...
I despair at the logic of the makers, fitting a single exchangeable cylinder ..
Think I will go for underslung tank or if that's not possible get as big a refillable in as possible....
Don't want to take up more space in the garage ...I'm already considering carrying a spare wheel in there as it doesn't come with one... Some of the logic of the manufacturers is lost on me lol
Ta andy.

It isn't logic it is the weight as you will fine when you add those items together. Stupid laws mean stupid outcomes.

 

[andy63]

Stupid laws mean stupid outcomes.

Yea... but what us is a single exchangeable gas cylinder...
Do they expect you to be at a location where it can be exchanged every time you run out... or exchange it with a quantity of gas still in to ensure you have enough to last for your trip.. not fit for purpose IMHO.
Some arnt bothered about a spare wheel ,but I'm not one of them.. fraid I'd rather carry one. ..
But understand your point about weight...
Andy.

 

[mitzimad]

biggest danger in a serve accident would be tha gas bottle continuing its journey at sixty mph after most of the van had stopped .After crash testing baileys fitted a wire bond around the fridge for just this reason

 

[Peter Sansom]

Yea... but what us is a single exchangeable gas cylinder...
Do they expect you to be at a location where it can be exchanged every time you run out... or exchange it with a quantity of gas still in to ensure you have enough to last for your trip.. not fit for purpose IMHO.
Some arnt bothered about a spare wheel ,but I'm not one of them.. fraid I'd rather carry one. ..
But understand your point about weight...
Andy.

With you there as far as the spare wheel goes. Just bought one to stow in the garage. The 'gunge kit' that comes with the van doesn't sound fit for purpose. Bought a 12v impact gun for removing the hub nuts too. Tried it out...brilliant. Does away with all that "will/won't it come off" when you're trying to change a puncture.

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[Chaumo]

I solved the problem of only having room for one 6kg gas bottle in the van. We changed the van! Now the proud owners of a new (to us) Dethleffs black magic edition A class.

 

[Peter Sansom]

I solved the problem of only having room for one 6kg gas bottle in the van. We changed the van! Now the proud owners of a new (to us) Dethleffs black magic edition A class.

That's an expensive way of solving that particular problem!

 

[PeteH]

I suppose I should`nt post this but I cant resist So: I have 2 Flogas butane an 11kg, a Calor propane, an Argas 7kg and 19kg, a Repsol 11kg?. All in my garage (well not actually but out the back near my neighbours green house)! Do you think I am being Excessive?.

And yes, I am just back from the pub!!. (The fact`s are true only the names have been changed to protect the innocent!)

Oh!, and I Forgot!. I have a Patio gas 13kg as well!.

Pete

 

[Peter Sansom]

I suppose I should`nt post this but I cant resist So: I have 2 Flogas butane an 11kg, a Calor propane, an Argas 7kg and 19kg, a Repsol 11kg?. All in my garage (well not actually but out the back near my neighbours green house)! Do you think I am being Excessive?.

And yes, I am just back from the pub!!. (The fact`s are true only the names have been changed to protect the innocent!)

Oh!, and I Forgot!. I have a Patio gas 13kg as well!.

Pete

I reckon the only one you left out is probably North Sea Gas. You thinking of becoming a supplier Pete?!

erm...Annuver Pete

 

[Katies-travels]

Our Chausson only has room for 1 gas bottle in the locker. Inevitably it will expire on a site without refills or whilst cooking. Alternatively we can change it near the end which seems wasteful. What is the consensus about carrying a spare gas bottle in the garage? (Don't want to go down the Gaslow route).

I have a Chausson 630 have just bought a mounting base and securing strap and fixed a 6kg bottle with the seal in for a spare. Drop vent isn’t required there are no regulations for private vehicles only commercial vehicles and I have seen them ie commercial vehicles plumbers no vents.

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