Future value of your motorhome

[Nasher]

If the crystal ball don't work do you want to try my broomstick its turbo charged.

I used to warn my mother outlaw that if she didn't behave, I'd take away her broomstick on Halloween

 

[Minxy]

If the crystal ball don't work do you want to try my broomstick its turbo charged.

I assume you don't suffer from incontinence?

 

[Gromett]

Could be worth working out how much digging of the earths resources and Enviroment is destroyed and how much diesel it takes to manufacture such a ‘clean’ technology. I read this morning how Dale vince has created technology to create diamonds which require no digging or destruction of the Enviroment, now that’s what is really smart Environmental innovation.

Artificial diamonds have been with us for a long time. They are used in many applications such as abrasives. Did you notice that the chamber he is in is made from steel? I suspect that steel was mined using fossil fuels. It is only a matter of degrees. I am a big fan of Dale Vince, but the amount of carbon he will be saving is miniscule on this project.

 

[Gromett]

Hydrogen transport is right here right now, personally I think this would be a much better way forward than just relying on battery cars.

I have stated within this thread that Hydrogen has a place and even mentioned long range shipping and trains in my answer.

But for cars it is not practical or worthwhile. The physics, economics and practicalities just don't add up. I can explain why in detail if you want, but the info is out there.

 

[Coolcats]

I have stated within this thread that Hydrogen has a place and even mentioned long range shipping and trains in my answer.

But for cars it is not practical or worthwhile. The physics, economics and practicalities just don't add up. I can explain why in detail if you want, but the info is out there.

indeed but some were saying the same about batteries so as times change so may these technologies, my money is on Hydrogen will have a place so it will be an interesting future. I did read there is a ferry being operated in scotland that is Hybrid Deisel/Hydrogen so maybe long term that may be a upgrade for commercial diesels and Motorhomes.

Hydrogen Cars exist and the following is part of an article from the RAC so maybe the Physics and costs may start to add up.

Hydrogen cars vs electric cars
Environmental impact
Both electric and hydrogen powered cars emit no tailpipe gases, however, the production of the vehicles creates a lot of carbon emissions.

It’s estimated that a hydrogen vehicle will produce around 120g/km of CO2 over its lifetime when the manufacturing process is taken into account, while a battery electric vehicle (BEV) will deliver 124g/km of CO2 over its lifetime.

If hydrogen were to be produced by renewable energy this figure could be reduced significantly.

Cost of fuel
Sold by the kilogram, with current prices around £10 - £15 per kilo, it’ll cost between £63 - £95 to refuel the hydrogen tank of a Hyundai Nexo.
With consumption of 0.95kg per 100km (62 miles) the Nexo will cost around £11.40 to cover 100km (62 miles). It will cost around £3 to charge an equivalent electric car to travel the same distance.

Upfront cost
Despite battery rental costs of around £49 a month, battery electric vehicles (BEVs) have a huge advantage over hydrogen cars in terms of cost.
The affordable Renault Zoe will set you back around £18,000 brand new, while a Hyundai Nexo comes with a £68,000 price tag.

Some predict the UK grid will struggle to support the electric car overhaul and hydrogen could play a vital role in reaching net zero emissions by 2050.

The success of hydrogen fuel cell cars depends on a range of factors; the costs and green credentials of hydrogen production, infrastructure improvements including readily available refilling stations, and the fuel cells becoming cheaper.

So are you convinced? Let us know what you think of these vehicles in the comments below.

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[68c]

You'd continue using it for your central heating as well, my mate does.


For many though it will still come down to charging times. Most of the produce delivery trucks running to the UK from here run double drivers non stop. Neighbour runs no stop to Belgium(netherlands for collection no stop apart from breaks. If they could be recharged during those breaks then it would work if not then it increases the costs.

They could use multiple tractors, like the old pony express. Each driver can normaly only drive around nine hours a day, even at 60mph that is only 540 miles. Even Lands End to John'O Groats is only around 850 miles, not sure how often drivers are given that route but would still need two drivers. I am sure the second tractor could recharge in that time. Perhaps battery packs will be quickly interchangeable.

 

[Coolcats]

Artificial diamonds have been with us for a long time. They are used in many applications such as abrasives. Did you notice that the chamber he is in is made from steel? I suspect that steel was mined using fossil fuels. It is only a matter of degrees. I am a big fan of Dale Vince, but the amount of carbon he will be saving is miniscule on this project.

I understand artificial Diamonds have been with us for a long time according to Wiki
Synthetic diamond (also referred to as laboratory-grown diamond, laboratory-created diamond, or cultured diamond) is a diamond made of the same material as natural diamonds: pure carbon, crystallized in an isotropic 3D form.[1] Synthetic diamond are different from both natural diamond, which is created by geological processes, and imitation diamond, which is made of non-diamond material

Yet what Dale is saying The carbon elements will gradually bond with the “seed” to create a diamond anatomically identical to a stone that has taken billions of years to grow underground.

So if that is true you won't be able to tell the difference between a Dale Dimond and the real thing but whatever it seems he has a new process that is Carbon negative (not just neutral) which to me is very impressive.

 

[Gromett]

I understand artificial Diamonds have been with us for a long time according to Wiki
Synthetic diamond (also referred to as laboratory-grown diamond, laboratory-created diamond, or cultured diamond) is a diamond made of the same material as natural diamonds: pure carbon, crystallized in an isotropic 3D form.[1] Synthetic diamond are different from both natural diamond, which is created by geological processes, and imitation diamond, which is made of non-diamond material

Yet what Dale is saying The carbon elements will gradually bond with the “seed” to create a diamond anatomically identical to a stone that has taken billions of years to grow underground.

So if that is true you won't be able to tell the difference between a Dale Dimond and the real thing but whatever it seems he has a new process that is Carbon negative (not just neutral) which to me is very impressive.

I think you may be reading too much into this. He has not developed a new process in any way shape or form. He is simply applying an existing process but using a different source of carbon and a clean source of electric. Any other company could do the same but aren't because their customers don't care or it's as financially profitable.

From the same wiki page you linked to;

Gem-quality diamonds grown in a lab can be chemically, physically and optically identical to naturally occurring ones. The mined diamond industry has undertaken legal, marketing and distribution countermeasures to protect its market from the emerging presence of synthetic diamonds.[109][110] Synthetic diamonds can be distinguished by spectroscopy in the infrared, ultraviolet, or X-ray wavelengths. The DiamondView tester from De Beers uses UV fluorescence to detect trace impurities of nitrogen, nickel or other metals in HPHT or CVD diamonds.[111]

I would surmise that currently their is little financial imperitive pushing the lab grown diamond companies to remove the trace impurities of nitrogen, nickel or other metals to make the lab grown one indistinguishable from natural ones. But if it was required they could do so within a fairly short period of time. The technology to do this I suspect is already available in the Silicon wafer production processes which has to have incredibly high purities.

From your original Guardian article.

He told the Guardian that Sky Diamonds would use a process known as chemical vapour deposition to create the diamonds at his Gloucestershire facility.

 

[Gromett]

Hydrogen transport is right here right now, personally I think this would be a much better way forward than just relying on battery cars.

I am not against Hydrogen at all. It does have it's uses. JCB are developing a heavy duty excavator that uses hydrogen and I think this is a perfect use case. They can be used in remote areas where there is nowhere for them to plugin and charge. The other alternative would be to either run a diesel generator set which would totally undo the whole point or have swappable batteries that they could take away to charge. The latter option would be expensive and not very convenient. Using hydrogen means they could run for days without refuelling and could have fuel deliveries.

JCB tests the world’s first hydrogen-powered digger

The 20-tonne prototype is the latest hydrogen-powered product developed by heavy equipment builder as it aims to phase out diesel vehicles

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Coolcats]

I am not against Hydrogen at all. It does have it's uses. JCB are developing a heavy duty excavator that uses hydrogen and I think this is a perfect use case. They can be used in remote areas where there is nowhere for them to plugin and charge. The other alternative would be to either run a diesel generator set which would totally undo the whole point or have swappable batteries that they could take away to charge. The latter option would be expensive and not very convenient. Using hydrogen means they could run for days without refuelling and could have fuel deliveries.

JCB tests the world’s first hydrogen-powered digger

The 20-tonne prototype is the latest hydrogen-powered product developed by heavy equipment builder as it aims to phase out diesel vehicles

www.telegraph.co.uk

Indeed Hydrogen is getting more traction (if you pardon the pun) and it will be interesting to watch developments over the next few years.

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[Gromett]

Indeed Hydrogen is getting more traction (if you pardon the pun) and it will be interesting to watch developments over the next few years.

Yup, it will be interesting. The good thing with this story is that it is a move from Diesel to Natural gas. It removes the local noise and diesel pollution so it is better for people in the area where the machine is being used. I like it.

 

[Deep Owl]

It will not worry me, I’v just had a PSA blood test, was checked regularly at six month intervals’ last one November 2019. Due to COVID no invite from my urologist for another so I took it on myself to get one. Wow ! The resulting number has gone “ through the roof “ I am waiting for a telephone from my consultant at 4pm this afternoon.
We’ll see what happens from this afternoon on.
Value of our V Line is the last thing we are worried about.

COVID Lockdown is the only thing that is important!!!!!!

I am very sorry to hear this, I am appalled that so little is being done for non-COVID disease; I am afraid we haven’t even seen the start of the damage done to our health (and economy) by lockdown.

My best wishes to you.

 

[philmc79]

Has no one ever thought about converting it to Electric, with say a 94KW hour battery that will do 190 miles on a charge with a CCS charger you could use it for years and would be a lot less than buying a new one, I have 2 electric cars and they are both great, Merc are now doing full electic sprinters so it will not be long before we see the first all electric MH, it is coming ?????

 

[minesapint]

So you honestly think there is the manufacturing capacity or resources available to replace ALL diesel and then petrol vehicles in 15 years? ALL lorries, ALL fire engines, most ambulances and the list is near endless. Diesel vehicles are not going to disappear for at least 40-50 years and still have diesel available.

A goal of 2035 is great in principle but impossible

It seems a bit of a competition to be lemmings, in the headlong rush to EVs. if a lightweight car can only get a range 200 plus miles a 3.5 ton MoHo will be down to 60ish miles so not a lot of use as a touring van. . I will stick with good old diesel. Until the world sees sense and goes with hydrogen power.

 

[CliveD]

I have heard that clean air zones, emissions based road tax and strict MOTs will be introduced sooner that we are being told to make cost of ownership prohibitive

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[joe and sue]

I have heard that clean air zones, emissions based road tax and strict MOTs will be introduced sooner that we are being told to make cost of ownership prohibitive

Force people off the roads, so that all movements can be monitored by buying of tickets, and control of movement by restricting / controlling sales of said tickets.
George Orwell had it right !!

 

[Pausim]

I have heard that clean air zones, emissions based road tax and strict MOTs will be introduced sooner that we are being told to make cost of ownership prohibitive

Who have you heard this from? Not saying that keeping ice vehicles on the road will not get more expensive, I expect it will. Just wondering about your source for “prohibitive”.

 

[nicholsong]

In this discussion about the future sales/use of non-ICE vehicles UK seems to be far ahead of many other countries.

What is going to happen when an ICE vehicle is purchased legally in Poland in 2031 and driven to UK and sold S/H in UK?

And will ICE trucks from other countries be allowed to enter UK?

Answers to these questions will determine where UK MHomers buy after 2030.

Lots of hurdles for the UK, and other, governments and the markets to solve before 2030.

Geoff

 

[TheBig1]

In this discussion about the future sales/use of non-ICE vehicles UK seems to be far ahead of many other countries.

What is going to happen when an ICE vehicle is purchased legally in Poland in 2031 and driven to UK and sold S/H in UK?

And will ICE trucks from other countries be allowed to enter UK?

Answers to these questions will determine where UK MHomers buy after 2030.

Lots of hurdles for the UK, and other, governments and the markets to solve before 2030.

Geoff

That's only new vehicles Geoff, the country will be awash with old ICE vehicles for decades to come

 

[ontheroadagain]

I have heard that clean air zones, emissions based road tax and strict MOTs will be introduced sooner that we are being told to make cost of ownership prohibitive

There is no point worrying about things you can't control.
Get out there and enjoy life when you can.
We have just changed our motorhome and to be honest I don't care if it is worth nothing in 2030.
We will continue to enjoy it for as long as possible and good health allows.

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[P Bentley]

I am aware that each will have their own reasons for buying a MH and I didn't set out to buy a new MH with any consideration of what it might be worth in a few years time. I don't care.
What it is worth to me now is the priceless opportunity to spend the next few years living and touring around Europe, that's the value I am interested in.

Apart from that (imo) the reality is diesel and petrol vehicles still going strong in 15 years despite the green washing empty rhetoric of various governments around the world. ,

 

[Ian Bosman]

Anyone put any thought in to the future value of their diesel motorhome as the day approaches to have all electric on to the roads.
If we speculate that as leisure vehicles they may have a shelf life of 15 years to the government's target of 2035 then there must come a time when prospective purchasers of your van will place a value based on its usable time left.
Most of us have probably been happy with the low depreciation in times passed but presumably that will not continue. The question is when and how fast the values would fall considering they may all become static caravans from 2035.
When new electric motorhomes come to market would people not be willing to pay a premium to future proof their investment with a marked fall in diesel sales. Perhaps that's when values start to fall faster than usuall?
Many will have to consider if and when they change their method of leisure travel such as caravan and electric car if they want some financial return on their van.
We are thinking to keep our present van untill forced to make it a static and not plow any more money in to further purchases. For us this means our second hand purchase in 2017 for will depreciate to £00.000 over those 18 years to 2035 at a rate of £5,000 per year which equates to £100.00 per week.
It's not all doom and gloom as we will use it extensively over those years for many adventures and enjoy the memories and all travel and leisure activities come with a cost.
Is there a different outcome for our trusty diesel motorhomes?

I suppose the issue will come as to availability of the fuel.

 

[P Bentley]

I suppose the issue will come as to availability of the fuel.

One thing you can guarantee is that fuel is in no danger of running out for many many decades to come.
the oil and gas industry is creaking back into life now after the deep water reserves of which their are gazillions of. This has all been on ice for a while because they need a stable 70 to 75+ dollars a barrel to make it viable to exploit.
That said there is also gazzilions in reserve in shallow water (of you take just one region of the Persian gulf, the Saudis alone are installing a thousand new oil and gas platforms over the next few years).
Worth noting that Ukraine has one of the largest shale gas reserves in the world as well, which might explain some of the sabre rattling.

Another thing you can guarantee is that it will become more and more expensive each year, because it is an easy tax target and petro chemical companies are only interested in the bottom line, therefore it will always go up, as will gas and electricity . (unless you produce your own electric)

I think with the electric vs hydrogen power we are in a vcr betamax scenario. Betmax was the better system, vcr had more powerful backers and better PR.
Hydrogen makes more sense because you can convert engines to run on it and the by product is water.
There are conflicting various industry backed reports on both, however in the ideal world it would be hydrogen produced by electrolysis using electricity created by solar energy.
That said the petro chemical companies and the politicians they sponsor/own will never allow it to occur. You can rest assured that ice are here for many moons to come.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

One thing you can guarantee is that fuel is in no danger of running out for many many decades to come.
the oil and gas industry is creaking back into life now after the deep water reserves of which their are gazillions of. This has all been on ice for a while because they need a stable 70 to 75+ dollars a barrel to make it viable to exploit.
That said there is also gazzilions in reserve in shallow water (of you take just one region of the Persian gulf, the Saudis alone are installing a thousand new oil and gas platforms over the next few years).
Worth noting that Ukraine has one of the largest shale gas reserves in the world as well, which might explain some of the sabre rattling.

Another thing you can guarantee is that it will become more and more expensive each year, because it is an easy tax target and petro chemical companies are only interested in the bottom line, therefore it will always go up, as will gas and electricity . (unless you produce your own electric)

I think with the electric vs hydrogen power we are in a vcr betamax scenario. Betmax was the better system, vcr had more powerful backers and better PR.
Hydrogen makes more sense because you can convert engines to run on it and the by product is water.
There are conflicting various industry backed reports on both, however in the ideal world it would be hydrogen produced by electrolysis using electricity created by solar energy.
That said the petro chemical companies and the politicians they sponsor/own will never allow it to occur. You can rest assured that ice are here for many moons to come.

Spot on there, Captain…….

 

[nicholsong]

That's only new vehicles Geoff, the country will be awash with old ICE vehicles for decades to come

I understand that, but it will be even more 'decades' if other European countries do not impose similar rules and I see no movement to do so.

Maybe the manufacturers will lead the way, but I think that will only be for cars not HGVs but I cannot at the moment foresee where the 3.5t - 7.5t chassis market will be going.

Geoff

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[Gixer]

There is the thought that well looked after leisure vehicles could well take a massive hike in price as the 'old school' want to stick with a motorhome that as an infernal combustion engine !
It is unlikely to affect me either way though
I did not buy the motorhome as an investment.. as far as I was and am concerned the moment I bought it it lost money.... I am of the mind that I bought it and wrote the cost of it off in my head straight away.. Our present one we have had for about 6 or 7 years
If we had flown everywhere and stayed in hotels it would have cost quite a bit more, so no matter what we are on the right side of the red line

Agreed - before buying a MH, I reckoned it was about £1000 per week for a holiday [if not being extravagant !!], and I aim for 12 weeks per year so that £12000 per year with nothing left at the end so over a few years, I think it works out, and it was never an investment anyway, other then in having fun !!

 

[Gaston aires]

It will not worry me, I’v just had a PSA blood test, was checked regularly at six month intervals’ last one November 2019. Due to COVID no invite from my urologist for another so I took it on myself to get one. Wow ! The resulting number has gone “ through the roof “ I am waiting for a telephone from my consultant at 4pm this afternoon.
We’ll see what happens from this afternoon on.
Value of our V Line is the last thing we are worried about.

I had treatment for the same problem for 15 years. You are welcome to PM me if it would help you.
Phil

 

[Two Owl Ones]

Anyone put any thought in to the future value of their diesel motorhome as the day approaches to have all electric on to the roads.
If we speculate that as leisure vehicles they may have a shelf life of 15 years to the government's target of 2035 then there must come a time when prospective purchasers of your van will place a value based on its usable time left.
Most of us have probably been happy with the low depreciation in times passed but presumably that will not continue. The question is when and how fast the values would fall considering they may all become static caravans from 2035.
When new electric motorhomes come to market would people not be willing to pay a premium to future proof their investment with a marked fall in diesel sales. Perhaps that's when values start to fall faster than usuall?
Many will have to consider if and when they change their method of leisure travel such as caravan and electric car if they want some financial return on their van.
We are thinking to keep our present van untill forced to make it a static and not plow any more money in to further purchases. For us this means our second hand purchase in 2017 for will depreciate to £00.000 over those 18 years to 2035 at a rate of £5,000 per year which equates to £100.00 per week.
It's not all doom and gloom as we will use it extensively over those years for many adventures and enjoy the memories and all travel and leisure activities come with a cost.
Is there a different outcome for our trusty diesel motorhomes?

we will be keeping an eye out for a rear end damaged, all electric amazon mercedes sprinter van to donate its electric motor and battery set up,there should be loads out there by then

 

[airwave]

I wonder what the next scam will be once there are more electrics on the road than petrol / diesels

It's already in play , price of electric ! .

In light of the op's original question , well this question appears every couple of months , and frankly my view is it won't happen . I personally think they will miss the 2050 target by a mile . Something the tories are particularly good at , in history past . However it should also be noted , when this target is supposed to be met , that the tories are unlikely to be in government anyway . Unless boris somehow manages to get the nation back on side , the vote will likely be split , and a labour government , by default will take the flak , and further screw the target up . They will be far more interested in getting back into the eu .
As has already being said , there is no deadline as such , only that new ice cars will no longer be available . What will limit ice cars life , is the cost of fuel , and availability of spares to keep the current crop running . With the current retail of electric cars unlikely to fall , the current price of electric itself , and a new plan to tax these vehicles . Perspective new owners will likely hold back , and i think new electric car sales will stumble for a while . So unless they plan on making a good proportion of the population unemployed , i really can't see any change .
As regards motorhomes , well frankly you don't really want to know my personal view , and even if you did , i probably wouldn't express such . Will the value fall , i dunno , it's possible but unlikely . you are right to stick with what you have though . Why worry about such things , unless of course you have the odd , 200 grand lying around , to purchase an electric van , in which case your in for a very , very long wait .

It is what it is , deal with it .

Right , i'm outta here , other things to do . Now just watch the flak hit me , for giving my honest opinion .

 

[Fdhadi]

Best get my monies worth out of it before I have to scrap it.

Our daughters aged 22 & 19 still come with us on the odd occasion, so they are enjoining their inheritance already.

Bought our 2004 Burstner in 2006 for 36k with 2k miles on the clock.
Sold it recently for 26k and 70k on the clock.

If this Rapido can give us half the good times we had with the Burstner, I honestly couldn’t care less what it’s worth in say 10yrs time.

I know I’ll lose far more on my next few car purchases.

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