Full Timer Insurance

[moandick]

While I stand by everything I said in my last post about Insurance Companies not being willing (or not being able) to tell Full-timers why they cannot properly insure them - can I please state quite categorically that my statement is not aimed personally at Peter from Comfort.

I think that I have spoken to him at a Show last year and (if it was him) he did take on board my requests and I do appreciate that he is one, if not the only one, with the 'manly-attributes' to stand up in front of us and try to answer our questions.

For that reason I welcome him and applaud him BUT I do feel that he will not be able to answer us properly!

 

[Braunston]

Hi,

After reading the thread I was wondering why people are looking for one company to provide their whole insurance,

I don't insure my house with the same company that i insure my car with or for that matter i never used to insure the contents of my house with the same company as i insured the building, and i certaainly never had travel insurance with any of them, so perhaps you may be able to insure parts of your lifestyle with differnet companies,

For example I have just spoken to the C&CC club carefree travel service regarding travel and medical insurance we only need 90 day cover but during the conversation they made mention of the fact that they could supply 365 day cover but they also said it was very expensive so I didn't follow it up as we don't full time so really don't need that length of cover, albeit there standard cover provides for upto 183 days per 365 which can be use in one go if you so wish giving you more or less 6 months away from home.

Hope that makes sence and perhaps helps

 

[MicknPat]

TOTAL 100% AGREEMENT!:thumb:
However, and believe me this hurts me, to be fair to Peter, I VERY much suspect that he has his hands tied. The problem is not that agents like Confort (there are other agents!) are willing to supply insurance to Fulltimers, the problem is that thay cannot get the underwriters ( the BIG boys) to agree to a policy which the agents could then offer us.
I know this from talking at length on the phone to the MD of Safeguard insurance after a certain dealer misunderstood what had been told to him and offered a Fulltimers package which didn't actually exist.
When I contacted Safeguard, very exited at the prospect of taking up this offer, they were horrified that they had been misunderstood and the dealer had to remove the inaccurate info from his web site.
Safeguard told me that they would HAPPILY supply a Fulltimers policy IF and I mean IF, they could get an underwriter to write one up. They told me that they have tried many times without success and are STILL pushing for such a policy because they KNOW Fulltimers are out there and they KNOW that they are missing out on a golden oportunity purely due to the short sightedness/bigotry/unfounded suspicion of the BIG boys.
Fulltimers can only wait and hope.

Okay, Now we are getting somewhere, so its ALL down to the underwriters, so can either the MD at Safeguard or Peter from Comfort tell us what exactly the underwriters are scared of by writing up a policy for full timers???

Mick

 

[Geo]

The underwriters are not scared of anything, you pay a high enough premium and in theory they will take the risk, and thats what its all about "Risk"
Just using pie in the sky figures for simplicity
Lets say the average policy on an average Motor home is £400 per year all risks
an average motor home spends 5days a year on the road 50 days a year on site
The full timer is in use 24hrs a day 7 days a week and 52 weeks ayear so lets say the risk is 20 fold.Full time premium is £8000 any takers
not quite that simple but to produce a package at a reasonable cost requires some statistics to work out real risk and I suspect there are none
oh:
Geo

 

[Bulletguy]

To be fair to Peter, I VERY much suspect that he has his hands tied. The problem is not that agents like Comfort (there are other agents!) are willing to supply insurance to Fulltimers, the problem is that thay cannot get the underwriters ( the BIG boys) to agree to a policy which the agents could then offer us.

Quite likely the case.
But when you look at what is covered by insurance such as oil rig divers, deep sea trawlers, commercial aircraft, military aircraft, F1 race teams etc, all of which carry extremely high risk.....it just makes you wonder exactly what makes a person living 24/7 in a motorhome un-insurable? In my humble opinion a 24/7 fulltimer presents a far lower risk than the majority of leisure use mh's/rv's which spend a great deal of their life stuck on a driveway, often left for long periods of time with absolutely nobody around.

After reading the thread I was wondering why people are looking for one company to provide their whole insurance?

Doubt very much they are!!

As with all insurance, most people 'shop around' to get the best quote. Only problem here with 24/7 fulltiming is, as yet, there isn't even a company to compete with because nobody appears to want to even attempt to offer a legitimate policy! Peter and Comfort Insurance could start by getting the ball rolling.

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[Caztur]

Just using pie in the sky figures for simplicity
Lets say the average policy on an average Motor home is £400 per year all risks
an average motor home spends 5days a year on the road 50 days a year on site
The full timer is in use 24hrs a day 7 days a week and 52 weeks ayear so lets say the risk is 20 fold.Full time premium is £8000 any takers
not quite that simple but to produce a package at a reasonable cost requires some statistics to work out real risk and I suspect there are none
oh:
Geo

Your logic is flawed.

OK I know I use a caravan at the mo' but the same problem exists for anyone who full times in their caravan.
At the minute I work full time but go away a lot - up to 100 nights out in a year.

So from your calculation I should be paying a lot more for my caravan insurance than someone who only uses it for 13 nights in Bognor Regis every summer? But the insurance company have never asked me how much I use it.

When I retire, I hope to be away from home for at least 3 times as many nights, probably more (will have gone back to a motorhome by then) - but I will still have a bricks and mortar home so presumably ordinary insurance will cover me -

So why should someone full timing, who is only using their motorhome a bit more than I will be, pay 20 times as much?

 

[moandick]

Another item which could be factored in is that most full-timers, in my experience, travel less than a handful of miles per year in their RV. I would suggest many do less than 5000 miles per year - in fact some probably do less than 2000 per year.

Last year (because of pressure of work on the Guide) - I did less than a couple of hundred!

I assure you that this year will be different. :thumb: Service completed today - MOT on Tuesday coming - Scotland (or bust) by the following weekend - yeehah!

 

[Bulletguy]

Another item which could be factored in is that most full-timers, in my experience, travel less than a handful of miles per year in their RV. I would suggest many do less than 5000 miles per year - in fact some probably do less than 2000 per year.

Not so sure about that.
A large percentage of 'leisure use' rv's/mh's spend their lives stood on a driveway, hence the reason insurance companies welcome those customers as they know the accident risk is low compared to those who travel regularly (i pay £60 a year more on my insurance simply because i use it to travel to and from work).

Can't speak for all fulltimers, but one i am in contact with knocked up 17000miles in his mh last year.

 

[theboadacea]

I used to have 'full time' insurance via Comfort. I was upfront and honest with them about not having a home address but did provide a c/o address for post. Ref the postcode, Comfort used one of their own postcodes on the policy in the storage address bit if I remember correctly.

The insurance wasn't cheap - varied between £900-£1400 over the 4 years we had it but to us it was worth it knowing we were legitimately insured .... it wasn't as if we had many other outgoings!

We will be looking to insure with them again when the next van is on the road.

 

[scotjimland]

Not so sure about that.
A large percentage of 'leisure use' rv's/mh's spend their lives stood on a driveway, hence the reason insurance companies welcome those customers as they know the accident risk is low compared to those who travel regularly (i pay £60 a year more on my insurance simply because i use it to travel to and from work).

Can't speak for all fulltimers, but one i am in contact with knocked up 17000miles in his mh last year.

Over the past three years we have averaged 5k per year, the majority of the full timers don't do high mileages, furthermore, it's not left on a drive or in storage so there is less risk of break-in or theft whilst unattended .. we drive carefully and look after our vans as they are our ONLY home.. lose it.... we are on the street ..

The bottom line is.. If you don't have a post code they are not interested or if they quote, the premium will be extortionate...

no more excuses.. they either do an affordable policy or they don't... as I mentioned in another post we can't even adopt a dog .. :Angry:

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[Wildman]

Wildman, I appreciate that you are trying to join in the spirit of the Motorhome Fun site BUT to some of us this really is a very serious subject - and I really don't think you are helping us, at the moment.
We (perhaps) are risking losing everything we own in a disastrous fire situation - simply because we currently cannot get proper insurance through the lack of having a 'proper' address.

I am sorry if my quips get in the way. It is a serious question, I am surprised to find so many people lying in order to get insurance that does not then cover them because of the lies. Gypsies fulltime and must have insurance by law, that is why I suggested gypsy insurance, it would appear they have ways and means. If the answer is for all fulltimers to get together and set up their own insurance company then why not. Anything can be insured, price it is only a matter of risk accessment. Why not a number of insurances, Third party RTA cover, vehcle cover and finally contents cover. Would that work out easier. If everybody bought shares in a home address would they then be covered. I appreciate you are living outside the norm, and I have fulltimed myself. What constitutes fulltiming, living 365 days a year in the van, how about living 350 days a year and moving elsewhere for a few days. Just as people move off CS sites every 28 days. The answer is in there, it is in the definition that must meet the criterior insurance companies can understand, so redefine the criterior or set up your own insurance company. It is not impossible. Why dance to their tune all the time.

 

[PeterAndPatCue]

It is possible we can use a carer of address, please do contact us on 0208 984 0777 for further information on this matter or to see if we are able to assist you with a quotation to suit your needs. We can’t promise we will be able to quote every case, but we will look at every individual requirement, remember there is more than just lifestyle taken into consideration in these cases.





In regards to my original post, the four scenarios mentioned, are not examples but real cases we have had of people who thought they were fulltiming.









I would like to share this with the forum as it may be of some interest to you.



I haven’t had time to investigate this as it has only just come to my notice.

(The Times 6th March) Foreign drivers will have to pay on the spot fines of up to £900 for flouting traffic laws under new legislation which is to be introduced with effect from 1st April. If they do not have enough cash or working credit card their vehicle will be clamped until they pay and they will face an additional £80 release fee. You could say, what has this to do with me as it relates to foreign vehicles. However, tucked away is a small section which says that the law will also apply to British residents who cannot prove at the roadside that they have a valid UK address.



I wonder if anyone is aware of this? Has anyone looked into it and does anyone understand what is meant by a valid UK address under the new legislation to be introduced?



I can’t always get back into the forum. I still work full time unfortunately and trying to run a business in the present financial climate takes a lot of hours. However, it is interesting to see where this will lead. We will make our own investigations to ascertain exactly the definition of a valid UK address under the legislation.

 

[Bulletguy]

Over the past three years we have averaged 5k per year, the majority of the full timers don't do high mileages, furthermore, it's not left on a drive or in storage so there is less risk of break-in or theft whilst unattended .. we drive carefully and look after our vans as they are our ONLY home.. lose it.... we are on the street ..

The very reason why i stated clearly 'leisure use' Jim.

A large percentage of 'leisure use' rv's/mh's spend their lives stood on a driveway.

I make a clear difference between someone using a mh/rv 24/7, and a 'leisure user'. The latter is a very attractive customer to an Insurance company simply because the vehicle is hardly on the road!


I'm not in disagreement about insuring fulltimers....quite the opposite in fact! I'm considering eventual fulltiming myself and would like to see a lot more companies offering reasonable and sensibly priced policies which are 'above board'. At the moment all i get is the feeling that those who are genuinely fulltiming, have insurance.....but had to bend a few rules in order to get it. And thats not satisfactory.

 

[moandick]

A Valid UK Address for full timers.

Here is a list that we try to cover for our insurance company:

A permanent address to which mail "addressed personally to us" can be delivered without the need for postal redirection by a third party.

We are registered with the local GP at that address

We are registered with the local Health Authority at that address

We are registered on the Electoral Role at that address

We are registered with the Local Housing Authority at that address (in the event that we should ever find ourselves 'homeless)!

We have both of our vehicles (RV and Toad) registered at that address

Our Bank Accounts are registered to that address

Our Pensions and 'Benefits' are registered to that address

Anybody think of anything we have forgotten?


And still we cannot get a full-timers Insurance! :Angry:

 

[Bulletguy]

(The Times 6th March) Foreign drivers will have to pay on the spot fines of up to £900 for flouting traffic laws under new legislation which is to be introduced with effect from 1st April. If they do not have enough cash or working credit card their vehicle will be clamped until they pay and they will face an additional £80 release fee. You could say, what has this to do with me as it relates to foreign vehicles. However, tucked away is a small section which says that the law will also apply to British residents who cannot prove at the roadside that they have a valid UK address.

Hmmmmm.......I wonder if this is applicable within all eu member countries?

I doubt very much!

Certainly in the UK the Police here would find it took all their time chasing foreigners with 'no fixed address' in their own country....indeed they would require a massive recruitment to undertake such a task!

However, it is interesting to see where this will lead. We will make our own investigations to ascertain exactly the definition of a valid UK address under the legislation.

Hopefully lead to companies offering the necessary insurance without needing to 'bend' any 'rules' etc.

Reading 'moandicks' post, i'd suggest they would be better off severing all ties with the UK, relinquish citizenship and passport, and take residency in a foreign country. They would soon get insurance then.....plus get a lot better treatment when coming back in to the UK. Seriously!

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[MicknPat]

A Valid UK Address for full timers.

Here is a list that we try to cover for our insurance company:

A permanent address to which mail "addressed personally to us" can be delivered without the need for postal redirection by a third party.

We are registered with the local GP at that address

We are registered with the local Health Authority at that address

We are registered on the Electoral Role at that address

We are registered with the Local Housing Authority at that address (in the event that we should ever find ourselves 'homeless)!

We have both of our vehicles (RV and Toad) registered at that address

Our Bank Accounts are registered to that address

Our Pensions and 'Benefits' are registered to that address

Anybody think of anything we have forgotten?


And still we cannot get a full-timers Insurance! :Angry:

Dick, You beat me to it, "What exactly is a VALID UK ADDRESS?".

Using Google I can find a definition for 'No Fixed Abode' which is."Homelessness is the condition and societal category of people who lack housing and food, usually because they cannot afford, or are otherwise" .

But NO definition to what a Valid UK Address is.

 

[Bulletguy]

Using Google I can find a definition for 'No Fixed Abode' which is "Homelessness is the condition and societal category of people who lack housing and food, usually because they cannot afford, or are otherwise" .

But NO definition to what a Valid UK Address is.

This is the Oxford English entry under 'valid'.

• adjective 1 (of a reason, argument, etc.) well based or logical. 2 legally binding or acceptable.

So from that i would say a 'valid uk address' could be defined as any which actually exist (ie. not a false address)......irrespective of whether you are actually residential there or not.

I think this quote which Peter from Comfort posted from The Times should actually read, 'no fixed UK address'. Fixed and valid have two entirely different meanings and can easily be misinterpreted.

 

[MicknPat]

May I suggest that ALL MHF's members who know 'full timers' try and get them to read and place some sort of entry on this thread so that Peter or any one else with underwriter influence get some sort of an idea how LARGE a potential market full timing insurance is?

If we can get enough to just post that they would be interested, NO details then Peter and his colleagues may look like this

If just the same who have posted in this thread are IT then Pete & Co will be

:shout: Its Up to us to spread the word. :shout: :helpsos:

 

[nahnotme]

I see a bit of a dicotomy here...is that how you spell it ?
By writing on a forum that some fulltimers have to falsify thier living arrangements to get coverage which could prove invalid should a claim be made may be classed as evidence.
So all they can really say is that they have a "friend" who has to do this.
I have a "friend" who approached comfort for full time insurance and was refused as he or she worked in entertainment, so the one and only possible option was useless.
If this type of policy is readilly available in the USA why cant the underwriters in this country pull thier fingers out of thier ar**s and sort something. ?

 

[MicknPat]

Wynnielafreak,

I recently wrote to the manager of the insurance broker we are with here in the USA to ask if he could pass on an idea to any Full timing insurance BIG BOYS or girls in the US if they have ever thought of extending their US Full Timing Insurance Company to the UK to fill what I believe is a large potential, after all we have American Banks in the UK so why not an American Full timer Insurance company or branch?


I will let you know what response I get back.

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[xyz]

I've only just found this forum so hello everyone!
This was the second most interesting thread I found here. I've been fulltiming now for 2 and a half years and can empathise with what most of you fulltimers are saying.

My personal belief is that we can't get full-time insurance because they don't want us to have it.
Lets look at this. Some companies offer 365 days a year European travel insurance? That's full time for a year then. How did they assess the risk? What criteria did they use to set the premium?
Lets say, I took that insurance out for a year, then spent 1 day back in the UK, then took off for another 365 days in Europe. I'm insured still. So, the ability to underwrite risk is already there. There's no arguing about that.

Where it all falls apart is not having a fixed address, even if you never spend any time at it. My postal service is legally acceptable to the police, the DVLA, my bank, my credit card, my empoyer etc etc. My van is registered there as is my driving licence, (In fact I have just paid a parking fine that I received through my postal service :Sad: ) and my renewed UK passport has just been delivered there. My legal and lawful UK identity is linked to my mailbox address. Why can't insurance be? There can be only one reason and that is they don't want it to be.

Now thanks may be appropriate to Peter for coming on here, but by coming on here what has he actually achieved for us? He hasn't given me any more knowledge than I already had. Perhaps he has listened? Well we'll know in time I suppose. I did speak to one underwriter last year who claimed to be a motorhomer himself, and he actually said eventually that he would not ever consider 'full timers' because of the risk of 'travelling types' taking advantage.
However people can only take advantage of a situation if that situation allows them. Can you remember way back when there was no such thing as accidental damage on home policies? And new for old was a dream to aspire to. I'm sure many people took unfair advantage of this when it came in, that's the kind of world we live in. However, if I had a full time policy covering major accidents and the obvious risks, I wouldn't care about new for old, or accidental damage to my wardrobe door. I simply want to be legally covered.

The way I see it is, if a full time policy ever does come out, it will be so over-priced that people will not take advantage of it, and prefer to stay the way they are right now. Then the companies will withdraw it after a while saying "We told you so". Historically many companies are not truly very good at listening to their customers, or indeed acting on what is heard.

I would be interested in hearing privately from other full timers so we can chat about experiences etc if anyone fancies it?

 

[nahnotme]

Hi Borristhemoggy
Welcome to the forum....
can I ask which mailbox you use as Im looking for one now that is acceptable not just for recieving mail but that is legally accepted by big brother as an "address" ?

 

[xyz]

The one I have used for over 2 years now is Welcome to The Simple Mailbox and I can't recommend them enough.

FYI here's a snip from the email I received when I first enquired:

In recognition of the difficulties involved for travellers in providing an address, DVLA will accept a care of address. This address may be a friend, doctor, hotel, hostel or similar providing the resident gives permission for the keeper of the vehicle to use the address. I also understand there are organisations that provide a service for travellers to use as drop-off addresses.
I hope you find this information useful.

Regards
P John
www.direct.gov.uk/motoring

Regards Boris, Fred, whatevah...

 

[nahnotme]

Having just corresponded with simplemailboxes.co.uk on behalf of my "friend" regarding insuring a vehicle they have kindly said that as long as the insurance company is aware that it is a care of address they have no problem with this.
So Mr. comfort is this acceptable with you ? not that you'll cover my friend cos he works in entertainment

 

[MicknPat]

Peter Cue, are you still monitering this tread, have you any further news?

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[xyz]

I seems a very long time with nothing being said.
My guess is we'll be waiting far longer than our lifetimes for proper full time insurance in the UK.
(Alothought I'd love to be proven wrong )

 

[moandick]

Peter from Comfort.

For that reason I welcome him and applaud him BUT I do feel that he will not be able to answer us properly!

Thank goodness I didn't hold my breath waiting

 

[Bulletguy]

Glad to see this thread is still 'active'.

Maybe a good idea to ensure its kept up at the top of the board as it is a highly debatable subject with many anomalies.

 

[scotjimland]

Glad to see this thread is still 'active'.

Maybe a good idea to ensure its kept up at the top of the board as it is a highly debatable subject with many anomalies.

Hi

I think the anomalies are a smoke screen by Comfort .. you are either full time or not .. you can't be a little full time just as you can't be a little pregnant..

If you own property that you use as a base you are not full time and don't need full time insurance .. and whether you work or live off savings to support your lifestyle isn't relevant.

I'm betting that no insurance company will ever consider insuring someone who has no fixed abode .. end of story..

Jim

 

[Bulletguy]

Hi

I think the anomalies are a smoke screen by Comfort .. you are either full time or not .. you can't be a little full time just as you can't be a little pregnant..

If you own property that you use as a base you are not full time and don't need full time insurance .. and whether you work or live off savings to support your lifestyle isn't relevant.

I'm betting that no insurance company will ever consider insuring someone who has no fixed abode .. end of story..

Jim

Only difference in Property insurance and vehicle insurance being that it's a compulsory legal requirement in order to drive that vehicle on the road. With property it's not compulsory....even the Queen didn't bother to insure Windsor Castle which is her privately owned home, because she (wrongly) thought the serfs would pay out for it. And there are many more people living in property without insurance.

Seeing that almost everything and anything from plastic tits to teeth are insurable....i really cannot see what the problem is.
This 'fixed abode' business is plain potty.

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