Full air suspension... what's your experience?

[Guigsy]

We opted for a much cheaper VBairsuspension solution with uprated springs and shock absorbers. This converted our 6m 3.5t PVC Ducato Maxi from a tooth rattling bone shaker to relatively car like comfort without air assistance. No height adjustment possible but an excellent budget solution, and less to go wrong. Page 37 in the brochure here <Broken link removed>

So at the rear, you've retained the leaf-springs, but got new shocks, and at the front you've got new struts (shocks and springs)?

What was the approximate cost?

 

[Richard J]

So at the rear, you've retained the leaf-springs, but got new shocks, and at the front you've got new struts (shocks and springs)?

What was the approximate cost?

£2,250 in 2019. Yes at the front the new struts have shocks and springs incorporated The rear also included new springs to give the rear extra travel and to level the van up as the front changes raise it by about 4cm.
The shocks seem to allow more rapid movement (ie over bumps) but restrict slow movements like cornering lean. Total mystery to me how but it seems to work.

 

[Guigsy]

£2,250 in 2019. Yes at the front the new struts have shocks and springs incorporated The rear also included new springs to give the rear extra travel and to level the van up as the front changes raise it by about 4cm.
The shocks seem to allow more rapid movement (ie over bumps) but restrict slow movements like cornering lean. Total mystery to me how but it seems to work.

Probably just put in better quality shock absorbers and springs that work at the range that's more appropriate for a loaded PVC.

 

[Richard J]

Probably just put in better quality shock absorbers and springs that work at the range that's more appropriate for a loaded PVC.

I am sure that is do-able if you know your way around these things, the shocks that went in were Koni FSDs. I am sure there would be money to be saved

 

[Guigsy]

Looks like Bilstein heard us:

Bilstein Launches New Dampers For Motorhomes Based On Stellantis Vans | Carscoops

According to the company, the new shocks offer "a significant increase in damping force" compared to the stock items

www.carscoops.com

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[Guigsy]

Sooo finally stopped procrastinating. Deposit paid for VB full air and should be fitted before the end of the year. Goldschmitt was considered, the cost is only slightly more, but it's a 6 month wait for parts. I'm going to A&E Leisure in Northwich.

I want to do some sort of objective measurement on the ride quality changes. I was thinking that if I drive down the same section of road at the same speed (the horrible section of the M6 from J5 to J6 where the joints knock your fillings out). I'll put my phone in a mount that's stuck to something solid on the dash. I'll then use an app to record the volume and an app to record vibration... will that work? Thoughts?

 

[Lenny HB]

You won't regret it but don't expect miracles.
Any particular reason you didn't use SAP as they are not far from you and the most knowledgeable. I only live 20 miles from Rosmia but would still go 250 miles to SAP.

Also are you having the self leveling? SAP include it as standard in their quote other suppliers quote without it and it's over £500 more.

 

[Guigsy]

Cheers Lenny HB . I'm hoping it'll make another step change similar to dumping the camper tyres... although that's probably best case scenario. It's still a panel van with a plastic box on top, so I'm not expecting it to suddenly become a limo ride. It's still going to be noisy inside (lots due to the squeaking over cab bed), but hopefully it'll be a bit less jarring.

From Birmingham, A&E Leisure are about the same distance as SAP by road. However, if I'm dropping it off and picking it up a few days later, I need a way to get home. A&E are about 2 hours closer each way on public transport. They seem to have a good reputation too.

As for cost, I got a quote from somewhere else in Stafford (yep) and A&E were a fair bit cheaper and much more responsive. I'm getting levelling and valves.

 

[TOAD on Tour]

You won't regret it but don't expect miracles.
Any particular reason you didn't use SAP as they are not far from you and the most knowledgeable. I only live 20 miles from Rosmia but would still go 250 miles to SAP.

Also are you having the self leveling? SAP include it as standard in their quote other suppliers quote without it and it's over £500 more.

Another vote for SAP, their after sales advice is 2nd to non in my view……you literally have to tell Mick you have to go……even though it was you that called in the first place! Just had to have the rear offside suspension air bag replaced due to it blowing out! Top notch service from them.

 

[EllF]

Looks like Bilstein heard us:

Bilstein Launches New Dampers For Motorhomes Based On Stellantis Vans | Carscoops

According to the company, the new shocks offer "a significant increase in damping force" compared to the stock items

www.carscoops.com

Do you know where you can buy these. We are having trouble finding them in the U.K.

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[Guigsy]

Drove up to A&E Leisure this morning to drop off the van to get VB Full Air fitted. 1.5 hours up the M6 turned into 2.5 hours due to an accident somewhere near J16. Staff at A&E were efficient and had the paperwork ready for me. I got the Brompton out of a locker and cycled to Hartford station. It's only 3 miles away, but there's a steep hill! Train back to Birmingham was on time and only took 1:05... pity it was so busy. Then less than a mile home on the bike.

I'm expecting a call on Monday to discuss any points and to arrange a pickup day.

Unfortunately I didn't get around to recording any vibration or sound data. So it's going to be a subjective review.

 

[Lazyboy]

You will not regret using A & E. Very good company to deal with, excellent communication and James and his staff are very knowledgeable. They have just had my van to resolve a warranty issue with the retrofitted VB front air to go with the factory fitted Al-Ko rear air suspension which the fitting dealer refused to look at ( long story but very disappointed with the dealer). A & E in conjunction with VB at Warrington (Sean) were excellent.
A & E would be my "go to" dealer for any future fitting/problems.

 

[flyboyprowler]

The van is only 6m and is rated at 3500kg and still has 700kg of payload. It doesn't have a garage, only a couple of small external lockers, so I don't really have to worry about carry capacity. It really is just the comfort I'm looking to improve. The trips we tend to make normally mean driving a fair bit and moving every day, so it does matter to me. I previously had a post-conversion panel van. I expected a professionally designed and screwed together coachbuild from a Hymer sub-brand (Hymer begat LMC begat Geist) to ride quieter, but no...

Other question is... where do people get theirs fitted? I've seen Erwin Hymer Centre Travelworld in Stafford (which is close) and Rosmia in West Sussex.

Full VB on our 8.3m Flair, and fitted by Rosmia. Great service from them, and four years later, no problems at all. DON'T go to Trouble World, they supplied our van and the aftersales has been dreadful.

Ah, see you are now sorted. Good news and now you will be able to enjoy the glide.

 

[Windy66]

We have full all-round VBAir. It levels on slight uneven ground when you press a button. But the ride is soooo much better.

However after 7 years one of the suspension struts leaked. £1750 to replace! Arrgh. Not happy. But apart from that we are very happy with it and the best thing we added to the van.

 

[Skipper43]

We have the VB Full Air 4C with auto level fitted to our 8metre 4800kgs van. It was originally on Camper Tyres and we changed to Michelin Agilis All Season which did improve things but the air suspension made a huge difference. Our installation by SAP at Doncaster (). I understand the standard front springs are a problem with the Ducato based vans as they are near their limit for what is nearly fully laden when you have a Motorhome. Added bonus is you don’t need levellers for most, reasonably level, pitches.

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[Portland]

Looking with interest at these posts as I have been searching for a solution to improve the ride on our Frankia based on the Mercedes twin rear wheel chassis. One firm I have found is Marquart in Germany who say they have the perfect solution @ £1500 with taxes. So I wonder if anyone has used this firm and just what improvements it makes.

 

[ED O'DARAC]

Sorry to be late to the party. Last year we had a Carthago Compact line I144QB which had factory fitted Goldschmitt front suspension with standard rear. Amazing difference to standard. Smooth, responsive.........quiet........better handling...
Quite why changing the front suspension makes so much difference I don't know, but Goldschmitt certainly seem to know their stuff.

 

[Jugster]

Full V B on mine- brilliant! All round, ride, self levelling off road height increase etc. wouldn’t be without it now. Much quieter van too, but takes a bit of getting used to when driving for the first time!

 

[Lenny HB]

Sorry to be late to the party. Last year we had a Carthago Compact line I144QB which had factory fitted Goldschmitt front suspension with standard rear. Amazing difference to standard. Smooth, responsive.........quiet........better handling...
Quite why changing the front suspension makes so much difference I don't know, but Goldschmitt certainly seem to know their stuff.

They are just uprated schokers & springs.
Wasn't impressed with them on my Hymer so I fitted full air.

Can't get the air transfered to the Carthago when it comes as Carthago don't approve Goldschmidt only VB.

 

[Lenny HB]

Looking with interest at these posts as I have been searching for a solution to improve the ride on our Frankia based on the Mercedes twin rear wheel chassis. One firm I have found is Marquart in Germany who say they have the perfect solution @ £1500 with taxes. So I wonder if anyone has used this firm and just what improvements it makes.

On the RWD Merc you can only get air on the rear can't be done on the front.
Have a word with Mick at SAP one of the most knowledgeable people in the business.

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[ED O'DARAC]

They are just uprated schokers & springs.
Wasn't impressed with them on my Hymer so I fitted full air.

Can't get the air transfered to the Carthago when it comes as Carthago don't approve Goldschmidt only VB.

On the lighter, shorter 3500kg Compactline, all I can say is, the simpler Goldschmitt solution worked really nicely.

 

[Three Stars]

For ten years we had an 8m Frankia on a Ducato chassis with rear air suspension which handled well. A friend had a similar van with conventional suspension but had rear air suspension fitted and remarked of the improvement. He found the van going round corners and roundabouts was much more stable. We now have a 9m Phoenix on an Iveco Daily chassis with all round VB suspension which is proving invaluable on British roads. I suppose the worthwhileness partly depends on how long you plan to keep the vehicle. The self-levelling is useful when carrying heavy loads. We've never grounded after raising the rear overhang so we've found that facility good enough. The air suspension is linked to the E&P hydraulic jacks so that the suspension is lowered before the jacks operate when parking overnight. After eight years of faultless operation all I can say is I'd have the same system again.

 

[Henry Walton]

We've got a 6m a-class on a Ducato chassis (not Alko). I'm generally happy with it, but it's tiring to drive on poor surfaces... which is pretty much the whole of the UK. It judders and booms over the smallest road imperfections. I've changed from camper tyres to van tyres, which made a large improvement, but it's still not great. I've been busy adding sound deadening behind all the plastic panels that make up the extended dash, which is also helping general road noise, but it doesn't stop the shakes. The front rides pretty low (probably the intended height) but the back is really high, I'm wondering if the bare chassis comes from Fiat with the same springs regardless of what a-class it's going on, and ours is way under 3.5t and it's nearly topped out most of the time?

I'm thinking of splashing the ~£8.5k for full air suspension from either VB or Goldschmitt. There's not a lot of difference in the price and the lead times now mean it won't be fitted until late autumn regardless.

Has anyone else got full air? Did it make much of a difference?

Cheers.

Had VB full system installed a year ago its like driving a limo in comparison to before, my Fiat Ducato was riding on the bump stops so felt every pothole road hump and everything rattled before change. Road handling and cornering improved .Vehicle can be raised to suit road conditions and lowered for parking. Expensive but worth it .

 

[Guigsy]

Finally got the VB Full Air system fitted a couple of weeks ago. Had fun driving back in the snow. Due to it being our only vehicle, I've done about 12 hours of driving so far over the Xmas period.

Three tests:
1) I think it's quite a bit better. It's not a limo, but there's a considerable improvement in comfort. Far less judder and shake than before. Our over cab bed isn't continuously squeaking. And the steering is less busy so it's more relaxing to drive. I'm not scanning the road ahead to skirt around every imperfection like I was before. We drove in strong winds over the past couple of days and there's far less interference from gusts and cross winds. Coming back to Birmingham on the M6 across the viaduct joints would previously be torture with me wondering what would break first, the van or my teeth. They are now merely annoying.
2) The wife was very sceptical about spending £8k... she's much less annoyed at me after travelling in it a few times, she's mildly impressed.
3) The cats don't complain anymore! One would yell. The other would get worked up an panic on rough bits of road. They were far more relaxed.

Other thoughts:
-Normal ride height is more level, so the front is much higher and the rear is lower. Does mean my waste and fresh tanks are pretty close to the deck though. I guess I can use high mode for rough ground now though.
-I've not played much so far, bit it seems quite slow. It can take a minute to adjust to the different positions. And it has to go via the standard ride height position each time. So to switch from 'squat' to 'levelling' takes a while.
-Not given it a serious test, but the levelling capability is pretty mild.
-The pump does a quiet hum for a few seconds every few minutes pretty much the whole time I'm driving. I assumed that once it was at normal driving height for the load, it would remain pretty static. But I guess it is adjusting fairly frequently?