France - Seat Belts

[Puddleduck]

Could the "extra" people get a cheap flight out?

 

[Minxy]

Thanks NickNic ... I've just checked the V5C for my camper which has 4 travel seats all with 3-point seat belts (1 driver & 3 passenger) but my ruddy doc says 2 in total!!!!! When I change the registration plate to the new one I've just bought I'll get the number of seats changed too!

 

[Minxy]

Could the "extra" people get a cheap flight out?

Problem with that is that they still couldn't travel anywhere in the camper once there so they'd end up having to hire a car.

 

[Just smiffy]

If your motorhome had belts fitted but a person in the back said I'm not wearing it... Would you carry on...?

Scenario.... As he is flying past you out of the windscreen into the Lorry that hit you.! (Because you were driving carefully) you can say "I told you so"
That'll make it all better... Won't it...

 

[Puddleduck]

If your motorhome had belts fitted but a person in the back said I'm not wearing it... Would you carry on...?

No. I have refused to drive or to give the keys to anyone else in this situation.

Okay, it is possible that the person in the back might unstrap once underway but our last car had a display that showed unfastened seat belts.

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[Puddleduck]

Problem with that is that they still couldn't travel anywhere in the camper once there so they'd end up having to hire a car.

Agreed, and we will have the same issue with our new van - six berth and 4 travel seats but it will be unusual for more than 4 of us to be in the van (generally only 2 of us) but if we have "extras" they can bring their car.

A hire car might work out well for sightseeing / shopping, save taking the van. It depends on the type of holiday of course. If touring it will be a royal pain. If on only a single site a hire car has advantages.

 

[GAVLAD]

Have you looked under and behind the rear,rear facing seats for possible anchor fitting points?
Some manufacturers have anchor points already fitted depending on the model of the van. My old VW had factory fit anchor points but no rear seat belts. I bought a seat belt kit from Just Kampers (I think they only sell VW related parts) and gut them myself. The belts and fittings were actually Britax.
If not, im sure there'll be companies out there who specialises in fitting rear belts and I would suspect you'd have a better chance of getting lap belts on rear facing seats than any belt fitted to a side facing seat.

 

[Ivory55]

Used to be a common sight , workers all sat in the back of a transit going to work just sitting on a box or a scaffold board. How times change.

 

[Minxy]

Have you looked under and behind the rear,rear facing seats for possible anchor fitting points?
Some manufacturers have anchor points already fitted depending on the model of the van. My old VW had factory fit anchor points but no rear seat belts. I bought a seat belt kit from Just Kampers (I think they only sell VW related parts) and gut them myself. The belts and fittings were actually Britax.
If not, im sure there'll be companies out there who specialises in fitting rear belts and I would suspect you'd have a better chance of getting lap belts on rear facing seats than any belt fitted to a side facing seat.

Unfortunately it's not as easy as that - it.s not just the seatbelt mounts but the seat itself has to have a steel frame to support the forces when in an accident including an upright support for the top of the seatbelt mount.

 

[GAVLAD]

Unfortunately it's not as easy as that - it.s not just the seatbelt mounts but the seat itself has to have a steel frame to support the forces when in an accident including an upright support for the top of the seatbelt mount.

Unfortunately, no details of what type of seats are fitted were given.
In my past experience, I fitted belts to a VW Transporter whereby the rear seat converted into a bed (called a rock n roll bed) and these seats were designed as travelling seats but without any seat belts fitted.
Now, before someone splits hairs, I'm not saying that the original poster has this type of seat, but, If they were serious about installing belts, I'm sure that their chosen company who specialises in making such installations will provide suitable advice on the suitability of their current seats.

I have a EuraMobil Activa based on a Fiat Al-Ko chassis.
Seating arrangements are two in the cab - standard van arrangement, plus four in the rear out of which, two are forward facing and two are rear facing around a dinette.
The forward facing seats have three point seat belts and the rear facing seats have just lap belts.
seating is standard motorhome cushions on a wooden boxed base.

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[Deleted member 29692]

When I change the registration plate to the new one I've just bought I'll get the number of seats changed too!

You're going to enjoy sorting that out. Good luck

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Have you looked under and behind the rear,rear facing seats for possible anchor fitting points?
Some manufacturers have anchor points already fitted depending on the model of the van. My old VW had factory fit anchor points but no rear seat belts. I bought a seat belt kit from Just Kampers (I think they only sell VW related parts) and gut them myself. The belts and fittings were actually Britax.
If not, im sure there'll be companies out there who specialises in fitting rear belts and I would suspect you'd have a better chance of getting lap belts on rear facing seats than any belt fitted to a side facing seat.

Unfortunately it's not as easy as that - it.s not just the seatbelt mounts but the seat itself has to have a steel frame to support the forces when in an accident including an upright support for the top of the seatbelt mount.

It's even harder than that.

Do be designated as travelling seats the V5 needs to be updated to show the correct number. They won't just take your word for it so be prepared to jump through loads of hoops.

 

[Minxy]

Unfortunately, no details of what type of seats are fitted were given.
In my past experience, I fitted belts to a VW Transporter whereby the rear seat converted into a bed (called a rock n roll bed) and these seats were designed as travelling seats but without any seat belts fitted.
Now, before someone splits hairs, I'm not saying that the original poster has this type of seat, but, If they were serious about installing belts, I'm sure that their chosen company who specialises in making such installations will provide suitable advice on the suitability of their current seats.

I have a EuraMobil Activa based on a Fiat Al-Ko chassis.
Seating arrangements are two in the cab - standard van arrangement, plus four in the rear out of which, two are forward facing and two are rear facing around a dinette.
The forward facing seats have three point seat belts and the rear facing seats have just lap belts.
seating is standard motorhome cushions on a wooden boxed base.

Make of OP's MH is mentioned in post #8 and also on the OP's profile:

If you still have the Swift Sundance 590RS as mentioned in your profile ......

It's a standard double dinette coachbuilt layout with side sofa opposite and rear kitchen/shower room so there'll be no reinforcement at all in the rear facing seats, unfortunately NO company will fit seatbelts to a seat without such reinforcement being in place now - you have lap seat belts on yours which I assume is an older model and/or they were retrofitted by a previous owner, whether this was legal at the time or not I cannot say but I seriously doubt if it would be legal nowadays to do this regardless of the age of a MH.

A wooden box base seat on it's own does not have sufficient strength to help protect the occupants of those particular seats in a serious accident as the boxes will likely collapse from the pressure/g-force applied and render the lap belts useless - if you wish to use them then that's your call but personally if it were my van I would remove them so that only 4 people (including driver) could be carried and therefore not be tempted to take more.

They may be able to find someone who would be prepared, and able, to fit the 'rock and roll' type seating, or even just standard automotive type seating with seatbelts, in place of the rear facing dinette seats but it would probably be quite an expense and may then cause problems for making up the bed, and also add weight to the MH too, again which would cause problems with going over the payload.

 

[Minxy]

It's even harder than that.

Do be designated as travelling seats the V5 needs to be updated to show the correct number. They won't just take your word for it so be prepared to jump through loads of hoops.

I have the COC from Globecar/Poessl/Dethleffs and the below image is the relevant section:

I've done a translation of the relevant bits in blue below:

42. Anzahl der Sitzplatze: 4
Number of seats: 4

42.1 Sitze die nur zur Verwendung bei stehendem Fahrzeug bestimmt sind: [blank]
Seats fit for use only at standstill (ie stationary): [blank]​

So, according to 42. it has 4 seats in total and if any were NOT usable for travel the number of these would be shown in 42.1, as no number is given it therefore confirms that ALL are suitable for use as travel seats - it wouldn't say '0' as this would imply that you couldn't sit on them except for travelling!

Once we've finished sorting out our static I'll get in touch with DVLA to get it amended, but it's not a major issue as there's normally only the 2 of us anyway, but best to get it sorted IDC.

 

[GAVLAD]

Make of OP's MH is mentioned in post #8 and also on the OP's profile:

It's a standard double dinette coachbuilt layout with side sofa opposite and rear kitchen/shower room so there'll be no reinforcement at all in the rear facing seats, unfortunately NO company will fit seatbelts to a seat without such reinforcement being in place now - you have lap seat belts on yours which I assume is an older model and/or they were retrofitted by a previous owner, whether this was legal at the time or not I cannot say but I seriously doubt if it would be legal nowadays to do this regardless of the age of a MH.

A wooden box base seat on it's own does not have sufficient strength to help protect the occupants of those particular seats in a serious accident as the boxes will likely collapse from the pressure/g-force applied and render the lap belts useless - if you wish to use them then that's your call but personally if it were my van I would remove them so that only 4 people (including driver) could be carried and therefore not be tempted to take more.

They may be able to find someone who would be prepared, and able, to fit the 'rock and roll' type seating, or even just standard automotive type seating with seatbelts, in place of the rear facing dinette seats but it would probably be quite an expense and may then cause problems for making up the bed, and also add weight to the MH too, again which would cause problems with going over the payload.

Didn't notice it probably because I was looking at what the OP had posted.
Mine's on a 59 plate and factory fit belts on wooden base seats with standard MH seat cushions as stated previously. All safety regs passed both Germany and UK.

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[Deleted member 29692]

I have the COC from Globecar/Poessl/Dethleffs and the below image is the relevant section:

View attachment 89714

I've done a translation of the relevant bits in blue below:

42. Anzahl der Sitzplatze: 4
Number of seats: 4

42.1 Sitze die nur zur Verwendung bei stehendem Fahrzeug bestimmt sind: [blank]
Seats fit for use only at standstill (ie stationary): [blank]​

So, according to 42. it has 4 seats in total and if any were NOT usable for travel the number of these would be shown in 42.1, as no number is given it therefore confirms that ALL are suitable for use as travel seats - it wouldn't say '0' as this would imply that you couldn't sit on them except for travelling!

Once we've finished sorting out our static I'll get in touch with DVLA to get it amended, but it's not a major issue as there's normally only the 2 of us anyway, but best to get it sorted IDC.

It'll be slightly different for you as you haven't actually added any, you're just trying to correct a dealer cock up from when it was first registered. Once you can get someone at Swansea to understand that you should be fine.

Adding new ones from scratch is a very different matter.

 

[Minxy]

Didn't notice it probably because I was looking at what the OP had posted.
Mine's on a 59 plate and factory fit belts on wooden base seats with standard MH seat cushions as stated previously. All safety regs passed both Germany and UK.

At the time that must have been acceptable and allowable within the legislation, nowadays I am not aware of any MH manufacturer that would fit seat belts in a new vehicle to dinette type seats without the bases being seriously strengthened with some metalwork, similarly why I also doubt it a company would retrofit them due to legal ramifications / public liability issues for doing so.

It'll be slightly different for you as you haven't actually added any, you're just trying to correct a dealer cock up from when it was first registered. Once you can get someone at Swansea to understand that you should be fine.

Adding new ones from scratch is a very different matter.

Agreed, I was only referring to my own situation due to NickNic pointing out that it was on his V5C - I'm lucky that I have the COC as many people do NOT get them.

 

[GAVLAD]

Above is photo of seat base
As you will see the next photo is the seat belt support bar.

This is the same type of design used in Autotrail, Swift & Bessacarr tag axles.

The front facing rear travel seats are of similar design but because they're fitted with 3 point seat belts the seat belt anchor/support comes up from the base as in below photo

There are reputable companies out there who can fabricate,fit and sell seat belts to this design and they still pass safety regs.