Flat Battery - Fiat/Carado 2023

[Dean68]

Hi,
Hopefully somebody may have advice on my dilemma. I have a 2023 Carado T459 on Ducato chassis . All was perfect for ten months from new then one day having driven 200 miles to a campsite in York on arrival the motorhome would not restart after checking in at reception. I left it a while and then it started. Had Fiat assist out who could find nothing wrong. Drove to Scotland, same thing happened, arrived at campsite and van would not start. We had to push motorhome to its pitch! I had jump leads and was able to start the motorhome from friends battery and all was fine for rest of the trip.

I bought off Amazon a 12v plug in voltage indicator so I could monitor voltage during future trips.

For info I have also taken the motorhome to Fiat twice to get smart alternator and battery checked and each time they can find nothing wrong (very frustrating).

I am now in France and twice so far motorhome has not started after long journeys! Short journeys of less than 3 hours seem to be fine.

What I have noticed so far with 12v plug in is that when I start the van from cold normal running voltage seems to be either 13.4v or 14.2v and when you let off accelerator it increases sometimes as high as 15v. This from what I have read is normal. The abnormal operation I have experienced is as follows:

(1) After the first breakdown in France I got a guy in a van to assist me with jumpstart. Once started the voltage meter stayed at 14.2v constantly for 3 days travelling to Alps. Had no problems starting but fuel consumption was down to 26mpg when normally about 29. It then dropped on the fourth day to 13.4v constantly. When I say constantly I mean when you let off the accelerator it does not jump higher.

(2) After first four days it seemed to start working normally, starts at 13.2-13.4 and flicks up to 15 when letting off throttle. However what I have noticed now is that if I drive for 3-5 hours the voltage slowly drops and on one occasion went as low as 11.9v. It still flicks up to 15 when you let off. When it’s down as low as 11.9v when I stop Motorhome won’t re-start. I now have a jump start pack which I use to jump start and once started it then seems to restart quite easily!

It’s driving me mad. My plan is to go to Chelston Motorhomes motorhomes where I bought it and get a fuse pulled so that the habitation battery is not being charged by van. If issue stops I will know it’s the habitation side causing issue. If it continues I can focus on the Ducati van, or Fiat can!

If anybody has any experience, ideas or strategies to resolve I would be extremely grateful.

 

[Cush]

Could it be an earth fault that only surfaces after a long trip where things in the engine bay get affected by heat. I a, certainly no expert but I would be checking the alternator and cab battery earth straps. Wise will be along soon.

Oh, and welcome. Always good to do an intro message

 

[Jev88]

11.9v???

Battery kapput.

Do check earth straps and battery / starter motor terminals. Adding extra earth from battery to engine block if possible but I am more familiar with older vans.

 

[gus-lopez]

hat if I drive for 3-5 hours the voltage slowly drops and on one occasion went as low as 11.9v. It still flicks up to 15 when you let off. When it’s down as low as 11.9v when I stop Motorhome won’t re-start

I would say that it is a smart alternator fault as it is not charging correctly if it is dropping that low?

 

[Lenny HB]

I also reckon it's an alternator problem.
Smart alternators normally keep the battery around 12.-12.5v only going a bit higher on start up and a lot higher on engine overrun.
The fact that the battery is down at 11.9v after a long drive would imply the alternator is packing up when it gets hot.

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[Dean68]

Could it be an earth fault that only surfaces after a long trip where things in the engine bay get affected by heat. I a, certainly no expert but I would be checking the alternator and cab battery earth straps. Wise will be along soon.

Oh, and welcome. Always good to do an intro message

Thank you, I discussed with Fiat as this is often mentioned on forums. This was checked out by Fiat and deemed to be good as new and no issue. Once I get to the bottom of the problem I’ll post again. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Dean68]

11.9v???

Battery kapput.

Do check earth straps and battery / starter motor terminals. Adding extra earth from battery to engine block if possible but I am more familiar with older vans.

It was 11.9v on the display whilst engine running which I’m told was system operating voltage not the exact battery voltage. But it can’t be far wrong as van didn’t start! Once jump started and run for a few minutes van restarted fine. Annoyingly I have to jump start direct to the battery under the floor in the cab as the terminals provided under the bonnet are too far apart for the little nico jump started gadget’s cables. I will post again when I get to the bottom of it. Van still has a years warranty so I’m on the case. FIAT although helpful always defer back to you need to get the habitation side checked. Chelston say nothing wrong with habitation so go to Fiat!

 

[Dean68]

I also reckon it's an alternator problem.
Smart alternators normally keep the battery around 12.-12.5v only going a bit higher on start up and a lot higher on engine overrun.
The fact that the battery is down at 11.9v after a long drive would imply the alternator is packing up when it gets hot.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

I also reckon it's an alternator problem.
Smart alternators normally keep the battery around 12.-12.5v only going a bit higher on start up and a lot higher on engine overrun.
The fact that the battery is down at 11.9v after a long drive would imply the alternator is packing up when it gets hot.

I would agree with this, the insulation around the windings is breaking down as the alternator gets hot. When it cools it's resealing itself. I've had this on a previous [ non smart ] alternator, but exactly the same fault. Additionally, if the fridge is sucking away current as well that's adding to the cabs battery lack of input.
Mike.

 

[Dean68]

That is my diagnosis as well. Ideally I need to do a two hundred mile drive, arrive at Fiat with voltmeter showing 11.9v and the van running and let them diagnose. I have a lot more real time info now so I’m hoping when I get back to Uk I can drive home the issue and get some action from Fiat. I will post again when I get resolved as if this can help somebody in the future shortcut the problems I am having my work will be done!

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[Lenny HB]

If you have had to jump start it a few times it's going to need a new battery I wouldn't trust it but that's another problem.

Might be worth a trip to Adams Morey at Portsmouth they are one of the best Fiat dealers and very helpful.

 

[Dean68]

I would say that it is a smart alternator fault as it is not charging correctly if it is dropping that low?

I think it’s that as well. The fact it ran at 14.2 constantly for 3 days was bizarre. I was pleased at the time as despite fuel consumption at least I knew the van would start! Also I thought it would be easy for Fiat to diagnose the issue as something was broken. I was very disappointed it started to work normally again!! I’m hoping that when they plug in there diagnostic device that there will be loads of voltage error messages and issues that may lead them to the problem. I will post again when I get to the bottom of the issue. Thanks for your input.

 

[Guigsy]

How powerful is your B2B? There were problems a few years ago when smart alternators became the default and manufacturers weren't fitting B2Bs. People with 3 way fridges were finding the fridge on 12v would pull more from the cab battery than the alternator was supplying. So they'd go for a drive and end up with a flat battery.

 

[Mr barbecue]

How powerful is your B2B? There were problems a few years ago when smart alternators became the default and manufacturers weren't fitting B2Bs. People with 3 way fridges were finding the fridge on 12v would pull more from the cab battery than the alternator was supplying. So they'd go for a drive and end up with a flat battery.

Our van is a 2023 carado v132 purchased from new at Glossop caravans. We have exactly the same issue - voltage drops to sometimes under 10 volt after a long drive at least 3 hrs and won't start, have to wait about 15 mins then starts no problem, both fiat and Glossop say all ok. Been happening for over a year now and our warranty has now run out. Thought I'd fixed it as the connections were wired to the wrong side of the battery sensor on the cab negative terminal but it happened again the other day, it's so frustrating as really love the van but we have to plan our journey around when to stop for fuel etc. can't diagnose it being an intermittent fault. Please let me know if you resolve this issue and I will of course do the same, good luck

 

[Lenny HB]

Been happening for over a year now and our warranty has now run out.

If you reported it within the warranty period it is up to them to fix it.

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[Mr barbecue]

If any more information comes to light I will go back to either fiat or Glossop with the claim as Lenny states it was reported during the warranty period, the problem is both cannot find fault of with the van. As dean says I would have to drive for at least 3 hours before taking it in for investigation and even then the issue might not arise due to it's intermittent nature.
Just to add some more information which might be helpful, fiat ran a diagnostic test as the engine management light or the brake warning light was coming on after trying to start the engine unsuccessfully and the scan revealed numerous fault codes but all refering to low battery voltage. They then tested the battery which was fine but said there was a slight drop in voltage when the battery was connected to the habitation side, it was after this I passed it back to Glossop who could not find fault and said it must be the cab.
Can anyone advise on the easiest way to completely disconnect the habitation side from the cab, can I just pull the 50 and 20 amp fuses at the leisure battery?
The other thing I am going to try is replacing the cheap solar duo controller that Glossop fitted with a votronic unit in the hope that that is the issue

 

[LostInSpace]

I have another low power B2B fitted the other way round to normal, wired so that I can manually switch it on to charge the engine battery from the leisure battery.

Never had any problems starting, but I always check the engine battery before trying to start.

If you have had to jump start it, then I would fit a new engine battery, regardless of any tests.

 

[buzz1]

It was 11.9v on the display whilst engine running which I’m told was system operating voltage not the exact battery voltage. But it can’t be far wrong as van didn’t start! Once jump started and run for a few minutes van restarted fine. Annoyingly I have to jump start direct to the battery under the floor in the cab as the terminals provided under the bonnet are too far apart for the little nico jump started gadget’s cables. I will post again when I get to the bottom of it. Van still has a years warranty so I’m on the case. FIAT although helpful always defer back to you need to get the habitation side checked. Chelston say nothing wrong with habitation so go to Fiat!

Personally I would go and see a different fiat dealer for them to check it.
I don’t have much faith in Chelston and that just a personal experience.
Good luck

 

[peterc10]

I think it’s that as well. The fact it ran at 14.2 constantly for 3 days was bizarre. I was pleased at the time as despite fuel consumption at least I knew the van would start! Also I thought it would be easy for Fiat to diagnose the issue as something was broken. I was very disappointed it started to work normally again!! I’m hoping that when they plug in there diagnostic device that there will be loads of voltage error messages and issues that may lead them to the problem. I will post again when I get to the bottom of the issue. Thanks for your input.

Drop in MPG is a red herring. It will always drop when you are driving in mountainous terrain.

 

[Mr barbecue]

Futher update,
Votronic regulator and new earth strap fitted.
Went for 3 HR drive, unfortunately no better.
Start of journey voltage (engine running) was 12.5 volts gradually lowering to 12 volts over course of journey (engine running normal acceleration, goes up on braking due to smart alt then back to normal)
Engine off after the 3 hrs voltage down to 9.3 with ignition on so didn't even try to start engine as warning light would appear
Went back to van about 30 minutes later voltage back up to 12.5 then drove vehicle for approx 1 hour and voltage stayed at 14.1 volts just going higher on braking

Engine off and voltage at 13.5 volts

So weird, might have to splash out on a new battery but could be a waste of money

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[BouncyBoatFolk]

Alternator windings insulation knackered? I've had similar before on a 3 phase one
Mike.

 

[Lenny HB]

9.3 with ignition on so didn't even try to start engine as warning light would appear

Either something is drawing a lot of current or the battery is completely knackered.

I think you may need a new battery and alternator.

 

[Mr barbecue]

Either something is drawing a lot of current or the battery is completely knackered.

Just thinking, if the battery is no good would it recover after engine off in approx 15 minutes back up to 12.5 from 9.3 volt

 

[Lenny HB]

Just thinking, if the battery is no good would it recover after engine off in approx 15 minutes back up to 12.5 from 9.3 volt

Yes the voltage would probably rise back up until a load was placed on it.
To go down to 9.3v its got to be knackered they don't even go anything like that low with the engine cranking taking several hundred amps.

 

[Aji]

It was 11.9v on the display whilst engine running which I’m told was system operating voltage not the exact battery voltage. But it can’t be far wrong as van didn’t start! Once jump started and run for a few minutes van restarted fine. Annoyingly I have to jump start direct to the battery under the floor in the cab as the terminals provided under the bonnet are too far apart for the little nico jump started gadget’s cables. I will post again when I get to the bottom of it. Van still has a years warranty so I’m on the case. FIAT although helpful always defer back to you need to get the habitation side checked. Chelston say nothing wrong with habitation so go to Fiat!

Can you use a set of jump leads to the connections in the engine bay, then connect the Noco starter pack to them.
Easier than connecting in the cab.

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[Guigsy]

Yes the voltage would probably rise back up until a load was placed on it.
To go down to 9.3v its got to be knackered they don't even go anything like that low with the engine cranking taking several hundred amps.

Agreed. A dead battery can look fine straight after it's been charged and display a healthy voltage. But it's like they have only a handful of Ah and no CCA left. So even a mild load or a little time off the charger and the voltage will sag back.

 

[Mr barbecue]

Dean68 any luck yet with solving this issue, could u give an update please or if u can't due to not being subscribed get someone else to post, thanks