Fitting a Sterling Battery to Battery Charger

[eddie]

We have literally fitted hundreds of B2B's and the trickle charge of the solar panel isn't an issue to be concerned about.

VSR (Voltage sensing relay's) can cause issues on English motorhomes shutting down the habitation electric as no EMC accreditation is done, but that is an example of stupid on stupid!

Stupid to use a VSR and Stupid to configure a system so that nothing works when the engine is running!

 

[jwells]

We have literally fitted hundreds of B2B's and the trickle charge of the solar panel isn't an issue to be concerned about.

VSR (Voltage sensing relay's) can cause issues on English motorhomes shutting down the habitation electric as no EMC accreditation is done, but that is an example of stupid on stupid!

Stupid to use a VSR and Stupid to configure a system so that nothing works when the engine is running!

I have one of these stupid British systems, so how do you get around them without major reworking?

 

[Leakylunar]

Well it looks like I’ll go down B2B route instead of solar.
Rang a local conversion company near me this morning in order to get a price for fitting the sterling 30amp model as I only have one leisure battery fitted.
I may just fit 100w to keep batteries topped up .

 

[JockandRita]

A good blog DBK.

But the currents involved are large so I would advise a professional fit unless your DIY and electrical skills are up to it. If you set fire to your MH with a poor installation the insurance company might be loathe to pay up.

I felt that we needed one a few years back (B2B 1250 model then), and had a quote to supply and fit, which was double the price of the unit itself. Gordon Bennett.
SWMBO asked if we really needed one, and at the time with the type of touring we were doing, ie, Aires and Stellplatz, I said "Yes Dear, we do". Her reply was, "If it's something we need, then you do the homework, study up on it, and fit it yourself."
Now, having respect for all things flammable, and for all causes of ignition sources, I was a bit apprehensive, as I could just imagine the local media headlines if I got it wrong, ie, "Retired Firefighter's Motorhome goes up with a blue flash". ................

With the help and advice of Sterling themselves, nickvanbitz, and another FUN member, I sourced all the 30mm cable and connecting lugs, etc, etc, and gave it a go. Others were more confident about my fitting skills than I was, but looking back, because I took the correct preventative precautions, fitting was safe, and easy.
It has been an absolute Godsend over the years, and if our next MH (whatever that may be) doesn't have one, I'll be fitting the latest B2B Pro Ultra 60A model.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[MisterB]

i'm still waiting to fit my Sterling 50A but I am glad I held off as I am picking up the bailey tomorrow morning! it has a solar panel, which i think is a small one, which I would want to increase and then fir additional battery and the B2B (assuming it doesn't have one of course!)

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[Leakylunar]

Well told by Sargent my model is not compatible with a B2B as it has a built in one so back to solar and maybe a second battery and switch between the two.

 

[JockandRita]

Well told by Sargent my model is not compatible with a B2B as it has a built in one so back to solar and maybe a second battery and switch between the two.

Staying on that theme, do we know if the Stering B2B is compatible with CBE charging and distribution systems?

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[eddie]

Staying on that theme, do we know if the Stering B2B is compatible with CBE charging and distribution systems?

Cheers,

Jock.

A Sterling B2B isn't "compatible" with any "one box does all" box designed to make the motorhome converters job cheaper and easier, as the B2B's charge rate is significantly higher than the Sterling/CBE/Schaudt can handle.

It isn't however an issue installed correctly as it simply bypasses the original equipment and charges the batteries correctly

 

[Pausim]

Well told by Sargent my model is not compatible with a B2B as it has a built in one so back to solar and maybe a second battery and switch between the two.

It might be worth checking exactly what they mean by a built in battery to battery charger. I think some manufacturers confuse a B2B with the more simple battery linking relay.

Staying on that theme, do we know if the Stering B2B is compatible with CBE charging and distribution systems?

Cheers,

Jock.

I have installed a Votronic B2B with the CBE system but have no experience of the Sterling ones. Could be worth speaking to Sterling.

This thread has some information about fitting a B2B to a CBE unit:

Carthago Split Charging Unit

I'm exploring the possibility of putting a B2B charger on my Carthago, but I understand that I'll need to disable the existing split charging unit. Does anybody know where it is? Is it a separate unit, or is it built into the electronic gubbins in the boot? I can't even identify a fuse for it...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[nicholsong]

It isn't however an issue installed correctly as it simply bypasses the original equipment and charges the batteries correctly

I endorse Eddie's comment. We installed it separately as a stand-alone system with no connection through the existing charging system and as he says it does its job.

I am surprised some converters do not fit a B2B as standard or at least offer it as an option. Maybe not enough customers understand how it overcomes the limitations of a standard vehicle voltage regulator, which only has to look after the starter battery and is not designed for the ancillary stuff feeding off the leisure batteries.

Geoff

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[Pausim]

I endorse Eddie's comment. We installed it separately as a stand-alone system with no connection through the existing charging system and as he says it does its job.

Geoff

I agree with both, my B2B is connected directly to the leisure battery and none of the power goes through the CBE. However, there are things that need to be done to disable the existing battery linking facility to stop the system creating a loop and back feeding itself. Previously I had it installed alongside an Elektroblock(EBL) and bought the Votronic 1212-45 because it had specific wiring instruction for the EBL and current limiting settings to make it compatible with it.

 

[Phod's]

Had a Sterling B2B fitted ages ago..............it sits behind my drivers seat and gets on with what it's supposed to do and I leave it to do exactly that and never touch it or even look at it!
Had it fitted 8/9 years ago when we stayed put for too long on one trip and had no EHU.........so ended up draining both leisure batteries! Novice, newbie, twit and bloody foolish but a lesson learned.
Also had a solar panel fitted 2/3 years ago so (fingers crossed) no problems at all now but before the panel of if real cloudy the B2B would help out even on tick over after being (kicked in) by revving engine once over 2500/3000 rpm
Both b2b and solar professionally installed to ensure they all 'work' together and don't fall out and fight......vehicle electrics like this are too much for me...........household stuff doesn't worry me though!!!!

 

[JockandRita]

A Sterling B2B isn't "compatible" with any "one box does all" box designed to make the motorhome converters job cheaper and easier, as the B2B's charge rate is significantly higher than the Sterling/CBE/Schaudt can handle.

It isn't however an issue installed correctly as it simply bypasses the original equipment and charges the batteries correctly

Thanks Eddie. That's how I installed my current one (no pun intended btw ).

I endorse Eddie's comment. We installed it separately as a stand-alone system with no connection through the existing charging system and as he says it does its job.

Yep, as does ours Geoff, but my only experience with charging units have been with Schaudt EBL, and Zig from my caravanning days, and not CBE or Sargent.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Wobblybob]

I have no problem fitting and wiring the sterling b to b.
But not sure about the existing split relay,is there a fuse to take out.? And were will I find it. I have a 2014 Elddis majestic 175, 2.2 Peugeot.
Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[DBK]

I have no problem fitting and wiring the sterling b to b.
But not sure about the existing split relay,is there a fuse to take out.? And were will I find it. I have a 2014 Elddis majestic 175, 2.2 Peugeot.
Any help would be much appreciated.

I can't help with that model. On our Murvi it was a chunky 100A fuse which was with all the other electrical stuff behind a panel.

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[Pausim]

I have no problem fitting and wiring the sterling b to b.
But not sure about the existing split relay,is there a fuse to take out.? And were will I find it. I have a 2014 Elddis majestic 175, 2.2 Peugeot.
Any help would be much appreciated.

Figuring out the existing system is the difficult bit. Sorry I can’t contribute anything useful concerning an Elddis.

 

[Wobblybob]

Hi John
thanks for the reply,looking at the photos of your van battery compartment it looks much the same as mine, was the fuse in the battery compartment or under the bonnet,or at the bottom of the drivers side door piller?. I removed one fuse on the engine battery and the fridge stopped working .

 

[Wobblybob]

Photo of my engine battery,b to b cables not run let.

 

[DBK]

Hi John
thanks for the reply,looking at the photos of your van battery compartment it looks much the same as mine, was the fuse in the battery compartment or under the bonnet,or at the bottom of the drivers side door piller?. I removed one fuse on the engine battery and the fridge stopped working .

No, the fuse was with all the electrics behind a panel at the back of the wardrobe. The photo below will be no help for your MH I fear but for what it's worth it shows 4 relays in a row left of centre. The one on the left is from memory the split charge relay. To find it I took each out in turn, started the engine and checked if the leisure batteries were still being charged. Once I located the right one I followed the wires from it to the fuse. You can't see it in the photo but it is fixed to the back panel below the relay and is obscured by the bundle of wires.

I can only suggest trying to find the split charge relay, assuming it has one. Some MHs don't I believe as here is a central "brain" which handles all thing electrical. I think the Elektroblock (?) does, not sure about Sargent controllers.

 

[Wobblybob]

Thanks again, at least I how know what the relay looks like!.
the search goes on.

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[Vikdikdok]

I've just fitted a Sterling BB1260 B2B charger. Things didn't go quite to plan but it is working now so here is a short account of what I did just in case anyone is thinking of doing the same.

For those unfamiliar with them B2B chargers replace the usual split charging system fitted in MHs. A split charger basically just connects the leisure batteries to the vehicle alternator once the engine is running. A consequence of this is the vehicle and leisure batteries are exposed to the same voltage. Now if your leisure batteries are fairly well discharged they need a lengthy charge at a high voltage - typically 14.4 volts for sealed lead acid batteries. The problem with this is the vehicle battery is exposed to the same voltage and could be over charged. Modern vehicle electrics are aware of this so what tends to happen is the voltage is reduced and the time to re-charge the leisure batteries will be extended. This won't generally be a problem if you are driving a good distance every day but on our trip down the Mosel late last year we were struggling on battery power. It was a combination of low sun, a power hungry diesel heater and the short distance between stelplatz!

A B2B can charge the leisure batteries at a higher voltage than the vehicle battery. It does this by placing a load on the alternator to maximise its output and then boosting this voltage and using this to charge the leisure batteries.

They are not cheap but Sterling have a small number of reconditioned units and a 60A model cost me £159 which is about half the price of a new one.

To fit the B2B requires positive and negative connections to both the vehicle and leisure batteries. Sterling recommend for maximum efficiency you don't use the vehicle body as the return.

On the model I chose no connection to the alternator is required. The cables have to be chosen to match the current and lengths of cable run. On my installation this dictated 25mm cables which I ordered from Electrical Car Services who I've used before and are excellent. https://www.electricalcarservices.com/battery-leads-made-to-order/c-p-0-0-535

Because every installation will be different I won't describe in detail where all the cables went but the front part will be common to most Fiat based MHs so I'll describe this.

Here is a shot of the vehicle battery.

View attachment 280567
Yours looks exactly like mine (Citroen Relay) PVC - my question is what is the 'box' just to the right of the 2 cables going up under the centre housing ?
(I didn't want to 'tinker' with it without knowing what it is

 

[Wobblybob]

Hi there, the box is the air bag module, you would do well not to interfere with this unit
they’re very fickle & expensive to replace.

 

[andy63]

but to be sure I decided to set the unit up so it would only start when the engine was running. To do this you have to connect a terminal on the unit to an ignition feed which is only live when the alternator is running.

Hi john .. A great thread and interesting reading..?

One point I'm not sure about and it involves your thoughts from the above quote in your first post of the thread... And mirrored by others in various other posts..
I think there is a point been missed..

The ignition terminal ( it can be any + voltage i believe including an engine run signal )on the b to b charger is one method of switching the device ...but whether you decide to use it or not the device will always default to its original voltage sensing role (subject to any timing function ie to cover periods of low alternator voltage ) and charge the leisure bank whether there is a signal on the ignition trigger or not..
That's my understanding from reading the instructions anyway..
It didn't seem to make sense but was confirmed when I asked Stirling
So even if that trigger is used ..the unit always defaults to a voltage sensing role and will still charge..
Andy...

 

[DBK]

Hi john .. A great thread and interesting reading..?

One point I'm not sure about and it involves your thoughts from the above quote in your first post of the thread... And mirrored by others in various other posts..
I think there is a point been missed..

The ignition terminal ( it can be any + voltage i believe including an engine run signal )on the b to b charger is one method of switching the device ...but whether you decide to use it or not the device will always default to its original voltage sensing role (subject to any timing function ie to cover periods of low alternator voltage ) and charge the leisure bank whether there is a signal on the ignition trigger or not..
That's my understanding from reading the instructions anyway..
It didn't seem to make sense but was confirmed when I asked Stirling
So even if that trigger is used ..the unit always defaults to a voltage sensing role and will still charge..
Andy...

I didn't know is the honest answer but if Sterling say it is so then it must be. I've just looked online at the manual and it now says an ignition feed is required for Euro 6 engines and I read it as suggesting this is the only time it is required. On page 7 there is a description of a setting you can make which will ensure it only runs when the engine is running. This suggests if you don't choose this setting then it will start if it detects a high enough voltage - as you say. This is all for the latest software which mine doesn't have so I don't know if mine is the same.

"Puts the unit into PURE IGNITION MODE - unit ONLY works with a live ignition. ideal if you do not want BB charging at all when engine is off. Software V69+"

Latest manual here:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0658/7343/files/2019_GREEN_V69_Rev_Instructions.pdf?92

 

[andy63]

This is all for the latest software which mine doesn't have so I don't know if mine is the same.

And that's a point I hadn't considered...
But here's a picture of the relevant page of instructions that came with mine..
There is usually a sheet supplied that confirms the software version of the unit supplied..

Andy..

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[Stealaway]

And that's a point I hadn't considered...
But here's a picture of the relevant page of instructions that came with mine..
There is usually a sheet supplied that confirms the software version of the unit supplied..

Still confused -
That instruction booklet is different to mine which model B2B is this for.
I have the Sterling BB1230 (taken off my 2012 van) and can't figure out where to connect the 'ignition feed' to the van.

I have just bought a 2018 Euro 6 engine model.

 

[andy63]

Still confused -
That instruction booklet is different to mine which model B2B is this for.
I have the Sterling BB1230 (taken off my 2012 van) and can't figure out where to connect the 'ignition feed' to the van.

I have just bought a 2018 Euro 6 engine model.

That's a extract from the the instructions supplied with mine which happens to be the 60 amp version.. But covers the 1230 as well..
Ignition feeds can be a pain..if its a coach built the manufacturer usually makes an ignition feed and run signal connector available to the converter..
I looked at the ford etis site and their free download for converters of the bemm manual..
Failing that any circuit that goes live with the ignition would do to take a feed from..
Heater blower maybe or 12v socket but you have to watch them as some stay live a fair while after you switch off..
Andy

 

[DBK]

Still confused -
That instruction booklet is different to mine which model B2B is this for.
I have the Sterling BB1230 (taken off my 2012 van) and can't figure out where to connect the 'ignition feed' to the van.

I have just bought a 2018 Euro 6 engine model.

It might be worth contacting Sterling and ask if it will work with a Euro 6 engine or does it need the software updated - if that can be done.

For the ignition feed I guess you could use the 12 volt supply to the fridge, the one which runs the fridge while you are driving. This isn't strictly an ignition feed but it will come on once the engine is running. Again, you could run this idea past Sterling.

 

[Pausim]

I think you are better off using the D+ feed to trigger charging. Voltage sensing will turn off with Euro 6 smart alternators when the engine battery is full, even if the leisure battery still needs charging. An ignition feed will turn on before the engine is running and put a significant drain on the engine battery. The fridge feed often stays live after the engine has stopped to avoid auto changeover to gas whilst fuelling, again putting a drain on the engine battery.

 

[andy63]

. An ignition feed will turn on before the engine is running and put a significant drain on the engine battery

I've used a run signal but as I said above the unit I have may well fire up on the voltage sensing before it receives a run signal ..there's not a long delay before that signal kicks in but its noticeable if I'm watching the step or dash cam which both use it..
Stirling do however say there may be a delay of up to a minute before the b to b ultra unit starts in any case.. So it may well be irrevelant anyway..
Andy.

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