Fine arrived from Portugal.

J

JackieP

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April 2017 I stayed at Armacao de Pera. I paid for a ticket at the football club and slept well knowing I wouldn’t be moved on.

In the morning the GNR arrived and told everyone it was Illegal camping. They were very pleasant and understood when I told them that I’d paid to park. They asked me to sign a form to say I wouldn’t come back to stay overnight. I was reluctant to sign it as it was in Portuguese but the lovely young officer assured me all was well.

Two days ago to my home address arrived a wodge of papers all in Portuguese but I did spot €200 euros written on one of the pages so I’m guessing it is a fine.

What on earth do I do? I don’t want to pay it as I don’t believe it is fair. The police told me that they visit twice a week to move people
even though those people have bought a ticket believing that it covers them for parking. How do I even begin to challenge this
And Is it easier just to pay up (if I even knew how to pay that is)?

Any thoughts?
 
JackieP said:
April 2017 I stayed at Armacao de Pera. I paid for a ticket at the football club and slept well knowing I wouldn’t be moved on.

In the morning the GNR arrived and told everyone it was Illegal camping. They were very pleasant and understood when I told them that I’d paid to park. They asked me to sign a form to say I wouldn’t come back to stay overnight. I was reluctant to sign it as it was in Portuguese but the lovely young officer assured me all was well.

Two days ago to my home address arrived a wodge of papers all in Portuguese but I did spot €200 euros written on one of the pages so I’m guessing it is a fine.

What on earth do I do? I don’t want to pay it as I don’t believe it is fair. The police told me that they visit twice a week to move people
even though those people have bought a ticket believing that it covers them for parking. How do I even begin to challenge this
And Is it easier just to pay up (if I even knew how to pay that is)?

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Just put it in the bin.
 
This happened to friend last year the GNR told them it was just a warning and when they got home they had a 200 euro fine waiting for them not a 100% sure but I'm sure they paid it as they go back to Portugal every year.

Im sure the ticket is for parking not camping we never went there because of the above.
 
Oh my God.

This is so wrong.

It should be fought. However I suspect it will cost a lot of effort and maybe stress to do so.

My legal chap was up for fighting a similar situation and was certain he could win the case, but in the end the motorhomer concerned chose to pay up just to be rid of it.

If you want to live on the edge you could just ignore it but, were you ever to return here, you would be running the (imo small) risk of being caught!

If you want to fight, PM me and I will give you the number of a young (English speaking) lawyer.

(Your pruned olive tree is doing very well!)


JJ :cool:

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Last edited:
I thought all documents had to be in the language of the recipient ie, English?
Ok, Isle of man'ish ;)
 
Badknee said:
I thought all documents had to be in the language of the recipient ie, English?
Ok, Isle of man'ish ;)
Click to expand...

Don't think so..
You commit an offence locally in Portugal, indictment will be in Portuguese.
Offence in Spain, fine papers in Spanish. Etc.
They've just posted those notification papers to the address they got hold of for the vehicle concerned.

There are several smartphone apps now that are actually very good at taking a photo of the page, then pocessing the words that it can detect and translating from original language to another.
 
Assuming it's just a local municipal Portuguese penalty for illegal camping, there is mechanism in law in Britain to enforce payment. In effect its just a request for money.
 
Hi.
Get it translated,there are lots of Portugues in England. Next,how brave are you ? I noted you are selling your m/ho,so if and when its stopped in Portyland,it will not be yours.
Me,if it translates as a fine,i would pay it,BUT,it would be resting on the best of three rounds with Jennifer,as to whether they got the money or not.
Tea Bag
 
Thanks all. There are pages and pages of it. It would take some translating

That is why I didn’t want to sign the papers and I’ve known many others who refuse to sign as they don’t know what they are agreeing to. I only signed because I was told it was only a warning.

I’m not going back to Portugal, I’ve got little chance of fighting my case so @100brian wins the thread. It’s gone in the bin.

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JackieP said:
Thanks all. There are pages and pages of it. It would take some translating

That is why I didn’t want to sign the papers and I’ve known many others who refuse to sign as they don’t know what they are agreeing to. I only signed because I was told it was only a warning.

I’m not going back to Portugal, I’ve got little chance of fighting my case so @100brian wins the thread. It’s gone in the bin.
Click to expand...
Yes you never received it.
 
Surely that can't be enforceable a full 12 months later ?
I mean what's their reason for it taking that long I know the post can be slow but 12 months?

I certainly wouldn't be paying it
 
Bin it,or toilet paper,or send to JJ,hell h pay it for you
 
JackieP said:
Thanks all. There are pages and pages of it. It would take some translating

That is why I didn’t want to sign the papers and I’ve known many others who refuse to sign as they don’t know what they are agreeing to. I only signed because I was told it was only a warning.

I’m not going back to Portugal, I’ve got little chance of fighting my case so @100brian wins the thread. It’s gone in the bin.
Click to expand...
You could translate most of it from google translate, or from your phone if you photo the pages etc. You can then determine if it is just an advisory type of notification or a fine. It would save all that worry not knowing what the paperwork means.

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Jimbohorlicks said:
You could translate most of it from google translate, or from your phone if you photo the pages etc. You can then determine if it is just an advisory type of notification or a fine. It would save all that worry not knowing what the paperwork means.
Click to expand...
It's probably covered in food scraps by now
I think she done the sensible thing and binned it a few hours ago
 
I understand that usually the initial "fine" is issued by the local "council" and can be dealt with directly at their offices but, after a certain time, it gets handed over to a national department (and the fine rises up considerably) and then can only be dealt with through the courts.

Sometime ago, because of a complete mix up with my financial department, I ended up paying €256 for a (unfair) motorway toll charge of €9.

Oh well... you can't take it with you when you go. :(


JJ :cool:
 
JackieP said:
Two days ago to my home address arrived a wodge of papers all in Portuguese but I did spot €200 euros written on one of the pages so I’m guessing it is a fine.
Click to expand...
Under the EU cross border rules on motoring offences it has to be "in the language of the country of registration" Otherwise it does not comply. So if all Portugese then it dose not comply.

Badknee said:
I thought all documents had to be in the language of the recipient ie, English?
Ok, Isle of man'ish ;)
Click to expand...
They do as above.

The Nomad said:
Don't think so..
You commit an offence locally in Portugal, indictment will be in Portuguese.
Offence in Spain, fine papers in Spanish. Etc.
Click to expand...
No ,the cross border directive states that they ahev to be uin language where the vehicle is registered.
Northernraider said:
Surely that can't be enforceable a full 12 months later ?
I mean what's their reason for it taking that long I know the post can be slow but 12 months?

I certainly wouldn't be paying it
Click to expand...
Under the system they have 12 months from date of the offence to send the paperwork.
 
Northernraider said:
Surely that can't be enforceable a full 12 months later ?
I mean what's their reason for it taking that long I know the post can be slow but 12 months?

I certainly wouldn't be paying it
Click to expand...
Portuguese government been saving up for the stamp.
 
gus-lopez said:
Under the EU cross border rules on motoring offences it has to be "in the language of the country of registration" Otherwise it does not comply. So if all Portugese then it dose not comply.
Click to expand...
As it was in an off road car park I wouldn't have thought it would be a motoring offence.
 
gus-lopez said:
Under the EU cross border rules on motoring offences it has to be "in the language of the country of registration" Otherwise it does not comply. So if all Portugese then it dose not comply.


They do as above.


No ,the cross border directive states that they ahev to be uin language where the vehicle is registered.

Under the system they have 12 months from date of the offence to send the paperwork.
Click to expand...




Sorry but Illegal camping isn't at all one of the specified driving offences covered by the EU Cross Border Enforcement Directive. Ergo that process has got nothing to do with this particular issue (assuming that the "fine" letter she received was indeed for "illegal camping").



The CBED and process is only valid for 8, specific, moving-traffic offences:-
Speeding; Failing to use a seatbelt; Failing to stop at a red traffic light; Drink-driving; Driving while under the influence of drugs; Failing to wear a safety helmet; The use of a forbidden lane; Illegally using a mobile telephone or any other communication devices while driving.
 
The Nomad said:
Sorry but Illegal camping isn't at all one of the specified driving offences covered by the EU Cross Border Enforcement Directive. Ergo that process has got nothing to do with this particular issue (assuming that the "fine" letter she received was indeed for "illegal camping").



The CBED and process is only valid for 8, specific, moving-traffic offences:-
Speeding; Failing to use a seatbelt; Failing to stop at a red traffic light; Drink-driving; Driving while under the influence of drugs; Failing to wear a safety helmet; The use of a forbidden lane; Illegally using a mobile telephone or any other communication devices while driving.
Click to expand...
I'd ask them to define and prove camping

Because parking a vehicle us the same regardless of it's size unless the carpark stated a weight limit or something
She said she had paid for parking and that's what she was doing.

But I'd bin it and sod them.

She's selling the van so even if she returned to Portugal it woukd t be with that vehicle

I'd be taking my chances
 
The Nomad said:
Sorry but Illegal camping isn't at all one of the specified driving offences covered by the EU Cross Border Enforcement Directive. Ergo that process has got nothing to do with this particular issue (assuming that the "fine" letter she received was indeed for "illegal camping").
Click to expand...

Yes , very true.
& as it is not one of the prescribed offences then how did they obtain the address details of the OP ,unless she gave them to them ? & if so why would she as it is for a theoretical parking infringement ?

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They asked me for my passport and they took the details from there. I didn’t want them to take my passport either but they said again it was only a formality
 
No address details on a Passport so some other document ?
Driving licence maybe ?
 
Larby said:
No address details on a Passport so some other document ?
Driving licence maybe ?
Click to expand...
Or they have illegally used the cross border system citing one of the prescribed offences to the dvla to gain the information?:sneaky:
 
Around 2009 we were on holiday in Italy and I drove a hire car. After getting home I got an official looking fine through the post from Italy - something about a contravention in Rome, I didn’t remember doing anything wrong but sent back the payment.

A week later I got another slightly different penalty through the post looking equally official. At this point I wondered if it was a scam so binned it and they stopped after that.

A few years later had something similar come through when I hired a car in Hungary, I don’t remember paying that either.

Not sure if some sort of scam with car hire companies abroad or perhaps they were all official but they don’t bother chasing them?

P.S been back to Italy and wasn’t arrested I am pleased to say
 
Nothing personal in what I say but if you sail close to the wind in popular foreign parts then don't be surprised if the locals get a bit fed up with the intrusion. The police are just representing the local residents in attempting to discourage the abuse by foreign nationals.
Many parking areas in the UK do not allow overnighting and anyone staying overnight would receive a similar notice as those given out in Portugal. A sign saying no overnighting means no overnighting whether it is printed in Portuguese or English.. I would just pay up and learn from it.(y):)

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