Fiat or Ford? (2 Viewers)

[Clemmo]

As the post below says we are looking for a new Motorhome.
Both have Fiat Cabs.
All my previous Mohos have been Fiat so I guess I feel an affinity to them.
It would broaden my choice if I brought Ford into the mix..
Anyone have thoughts on Ford or Fiat?
( I have sat in one..just feels different, maybe not so airy or spacious?)
Clemmo

 

[The Wino]

My daily is a 3lt V6 diseasel Merc approaching 60k miles, 1 set of pads at 48K; as the previous S Klasse and lesser cylinder E Klasse x2, and our MH over the last 21 years and over 500k miles have been MB diseasel. Learn the game with the MB Service Plan ie don't buy till B service then you get the ATF change included; and they are cheaper than Nissan Qasquai for servicing. Build a relationship with your main dealer principal and you win.

The only parts have been pads; and the occasional discs if kept to over 80k miles, only 1 E Klasse had discs in 110K miles, the S Klasse at 84k for discs including towing a large caravan for 7 years. You obviously have to challenge the oft up selling 'Service Advisors' who tell you at every service it needs discs and pads, wiper blades (regularly wipe with vinegar and they last longer than the car ownership, in our case average 8 years).

The MH on a Sprinter chassis, 2lt diseasel and 9g gearbox does not have a Service Plan option, but MB offer reduced rates of servicing and parts as they recognise the low mileages common as opposed to a delivery van. Service every 2 years.

You also get the Mobilo breakdown cover if you use MB for servicing every 2 years.

After 4 years old you get cheaper servicing labour rates and parts, if required.

Main dealers have to pay for those shiny showrooms and coffee and biscuits and have realised fair servicing gets owners through the door. Who may buy another new car.

The mileages you have done though are ones where I would expect very little trouble. Our octavia diesel has done 107 k miles only had routine servicing. My friend with the same model 130 k miles just the same. I don't think you're example shows the value in paying for a posh badge it's why I got a Skoda not a Volkswagen!

 

[KASPAR]

I'm more than happy with my choices of my personal motorcars, thank you.

As it appears you are with yours.

 

[jerryz]

Avoid the Fords the Wet belt engines are mobile grenades and they still have not fixed the Injector problems ,,, The tradesmen I know are not buying them anymore ,, many have horror stories ...The wet Belt Ford engines have been a disaster ....

 

[John cleal]

As the post below says we are looking for a new Motorhome.
Both have Fiat Cabs.
All my previous Mohos have been Fiat so I guess I feel an affinity to them.
It would broaden my choice if I brought Ford into the mix..
Anyone have thoughts on Ford or Fiat?
( I have sat in one..just feels different, maybe not so airy or spacious?)
Clemmo

Ford's drive better but have massive problem with water ingress into engine bay both side wings!

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[Monkeynuts2215]

As the post below says we are looking for a new Motorhome.
Both have Fiat Cabs.
All my previous Mohos have been Fiat so I guess I feel an affinity to them.
It would broaden my choice if I brought Ford into the mix..
Anyone have thoughts on Ford or Fiat?
( I have sat in one..just feels different, maybe not so airy or spacious?)
Clemmo

My personal preference would be Fiat.

 

[minesapint]

As the post below says we are looking for a new Motorhome.
Both have Fiat Cabs.
All my previous Mohos have been Fiat so I guess I feel an affinity to them.
It would broaden my choice if I brought Ford into the mix..
Anyone have thoughts on Ford or Fiat?
( I have sat in one..just feels different, maybe not so airy or spacious?)
Clemmo

We have had both Ford Transit and Fiat. The Transit was a mk7 which was a Hobby moho, our next van was with Fiat chassis used by Burstner. The ford felt more solid, this was before the dreaded wet belt engines, but not as comfortable to drive as the Fiat/Burstner. Neither gave me any mechanical trouble.

 

[SVMC15]

Ford revises timing belt service interval for diesel vans

Ford has changed the official replacement interval for the 'wet belt' timing belt fitted to some of its diesel vans.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

I read this today. It may be relevant to those interested.

I like the way the change has been blamed on driving style!

 

[Tony50]

Ford revises timing belt service interval for diesel vans

Ford has changed the official replacement interval for the 'wet belt' timing belt fitted to some of its diesel vans.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

I read this today. It may be relevant to those interested.

I like the way the change has been blamed on driving style!

Yes I saw the changed Service intervals, if you buy a Fod based Motorhome and want a some extra warranty they can sell you you must do this particular Warranty within 90 days , I was not aware of this , until after 90 days was past.
When I enquired about some thing else The Ford Motor Company did not recognise the vehicle (not the Ford dealer) !! I had to send copy of Registration documents and copy of Motorhome Dealer Invoice. I bought vehicle May 23rd 2024 I didn't get an email from Ford until June 28th 2024, so I didn't know about the 90 days warranty period, but I was told that there is another warranty available at the end of 3Year Ford Warranty or 100,000 miles which you can apply for upto 6 months before warranty ends I assumed they mean or 100,000 miles!! It's through Ford Protect a Insurance Company !! Trouble is I have been told information in dribs and drabs from Ford Customer Service and Admin at Ford Protect, so if you are thinking about above check early on if the Ford Motor Company recognizes your vehicle, phone them not the Dealer

 

[gus-lopez]

The message is to just make sure that you actually drive the vehicle in all circumstances before you buy.

My mate has bought & sold 5 different Mh's over the last 25 years.He has never driven one on test, never asked for a hab check or service history, & all of them have been sold the same way including the last one this week. None of the buyers have asked about the aforementioned either?Last Buyer drove it first time last night when he collected it.

The Transit was a mk7 which

was the last of the decent ones.

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[Saucer]

I can’t get past how ugly the Transit is, at least in my eyes

 

[Pechris]

Ford every day of the week!. Too many problems with Fiat. Would never buy one.

 

[SVMC15]

Ford every day of the week!. Too many problems with Fiat. Would never buy one.

What problems should I expect from my Fiat?

Apart from the airbag ecu failure, which was more than likely caused by my 10 year old battery I have not had any other issues, in the 10 years I've had the van.

 

[Nanniemate]

Pick which ever you like the colour of...

 

[Lenny HB]

Pro's for the Ford... Better engines, modern widetrack moho specific chassis

Fiat have had a wide track camper chassis since 2007, but irelavant if you have an AL-KO chassis.

the Fiat sounds like an old tractor.

Mine doesn't the new 2.2 is quiet and smooth.

I don't think the 2.2 is entirely new.

Well it's been around a couple of years. Totally different engine to the old 2.2 & 2.3. Cross flow is opposite with exhaust in front, dia cast aluminium sump and thats just outside visuals, it's very smooth and quiet compared to the older units.

Now on my 4th Ducato since 2008.last one had the airbag problem otherwise fine.

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[Folkranger]

I know at least one insurance company who as if the base vehicle is Ford. Maybe something to do with being easier to steal. We've had one Ford, five Fiat, so sort of got used the the Fiat.

You have to also factor in the converter. My Hymer has no alarm or central locking, even though these are built into the base cab. My Hymer (Fiat) keyfob has buttons for both. As everthing is extra on Hymers, they must have removed this functionality. My previous Rapido and Hobby both had these even though they were a much lower price point than the Hymer. So Hymer is the easiest to steal!

 

[Folkranger]

Fiat have had a wide track camper chassis since 2007, but irelavant if you have an AL-KO chassis.

Mine doesn't the new 2.2 is quiet and smooth.

Well it's been around a couple of years. Totally different engine to the old 2.2 & 2.3. Cross flow is opposite with exhaust in front, dia cast aluminium sump and thats just outside visuals, it's very smooth and quiet compared to the older units.

Now on my 4th Ducato since 2008.last one had the airbag problem otherwise fine.

Hope they've got the gearing sorted out. Mine is far too highly geared. Makes driving a pain.

 

[Guigsy]

Well it's been around a couple of years. Totally different engine to the old 2.2 & 2.3. Cross flow is opposite with exhaust in front, dia cast aluminium sump and thats just outside visuals, it's very smooth and quiet compared to the older units.

I thought it was a bored-out 2.0 from another Stelantis brand? So new to the Ducato, but not a completely brand new architecture. It's no longer Iveco though. As you mentioned though, it's been around a couple of years and there's not a large number of reported failures or pattern of weakness (yet).

 

[Pausim]

I thought it was a bored-out 2.0 from another Stelantis brand? So new to the Ducato, but not a completely brand new architecture. It's no longer Iveco though. As you mentioned though, it's been around a couple of years and there's not a large number of reported failures or pattern of weakness (yet).

Fiat Professional describe it as “An all-new engine, that offers improved consumption and emissions with an optimised weight.” They also say “ Designed for LCVs.”

Powertrain - New Ducato | Fiat Professional UK

The new MultiJet3 Powertrain on the Ducato van is an all-new engine that offers improved consumption and emissions, with optimised weight. Find out more!

www.fiatprofessional.com

 

[Jonno1103]

Fiat have had a wide track camper chassis since 2007, but irelavant if you have an AL-KO chassis.

Mine doesn't the new 2.2 is quiet and smooth.

Well it's been around a couple of years. Totally different engine to the old 2.2 & 2.3. Cross flow is opposite with exhaust in front, dia cast aluminium sump and thats just outside visuals, it's very smooth and quiet compared to the older units.

Now on my 4th Ducato since 2008.last one had the airbag problem otherwise fine.

With regard to the chassis Lenny that's exactly my point. It's out of date, unchanged in 17 years. Modern chassis' are now stronger & lighter. Apart from multiple facelifts & aesthetics the Sevel chassis and body hasn't changed.

Surely it's time for Stellantis to design something for the current decade with a new clean sheet designed engine - the MJIII isn't a leap in tech simply a work around to meet standards... rather than keep plodding on with something almost 2 decades old?

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[Pausim]

With regard to the chassis Lenny that's exactly my point. It's out of date, unchanged in 17 years. Modern chassis' are now stronger & lighter. Apart from multiple facelifts & aesthetics the Sevel chassis and body hasn't changed.

Surely it's time for Stellantis to design something for the current decade with a new clean sheet designed engine - the MJIII isn't a leap in tech simply a work around to meet standards... rather than keep plodding on with something almost 2 decades old?

The Multijet 3 appears to be a different engine in so many ways but frankly I don’t really care. What matters to me is that it is great to drive. Have you driven one? As for the body it is a container to hold the habitation parts of my camper van, which it does very well.

 

[ontheroadagain]

Our current Ducato is less than 3 years old and has had more problems than any other vehicle I have owned in the last 30 years. It still has an unresolved issue with the air con that Fiat are unable to fix. I have owned a lot of Japanese cars so I am not used to things going wrong. My wife’s Suzuki Vitara is 6 years old and has never been back to the garage except for its annual service. I have never been a Ford fan but they are starting to look more appealing to me.

 

[Lenny HB]

Modern chassis' are now stronger

How come then that the older Trannies were lighter and had a much higher payload.
It's all a bit irelavant with an A Class also I don't think any A Class's use a Ford chassis.

 

[bigwood]

I drove Transits as work vans for twenty two years before swapping to a VW T4. Our first PVC was based on a mk5 Transit and we have a Mk6 based coach build at the moment.
As much as I don’t like some of Fords recent ideas on the mk8 Transit I would prefer it to a Fiat, Peugeot or Citrone.

 

[Jonno1103]

The Multijet 3 appears to be a different engine in so many ways but frankly I don’t really care. What matters to me is that it is great to drive. Have you driven one? As for the body it is a container to hold the habitation parts of my camper van, which it does very well.

I've driven over 10 of them from different coachbuilders from the early days when they still had the 120 & 160 to last week. It is great to drive if you have the 180 with 9 speed auto bolted to it and an ALKo underneath, it's not much fun on an entry level 3500kg moho.

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[Pausim]

I've driven over 10 of them from different coachbuilders from the early days when they still had the 120 & 160 to last week. It is great to drive if you have the 180 with 9 speed auto bolted to it and an ALKo underneath, it's not much fun on an entry level 3500kg moho.

I have the 140 with 9 speed on a Fiat chassis at 3500kg and have no complaints. I did test drive a 140 manual and didn’t like the gear change.

 

[Tony50]

With regard to the chassis Lenny that's exactly my point. It's out of date, unchanged in 17 years. Modern chassis' are now stronger & lighter. Apart from multiple facelifts & aesthetics the Sevel chassis and body hasn't changed.

Surely it's time for Stellantis to design something for the current decade with a new clean sheet designed engine - the MJIII isn't a leap in tech simply a work around to meet standards... rather than keep plodding on with something almost 2 decades old?

It may be a case if it ain't broke !!

 

[Jonno1103]

It may be a case if it ain't broke !!

Maybe so but only around 20% of motorhomes within the 3500 - 3850kg weight range are built on the motorhome specific chassis. 80% of them are built on the the standard Stellantis Light chassis - the one that's unchanged. This has now been made worse by Stellantis adding an anti sway/anti roll bar to many of the light chassis' making it costly to up plate due to the added work needed to be done to the suspension.

Stellantis have improved the ladder design motorhome chassis for increased weights up to 4400kg but again not many use it opting for the ALKo platform instead within the 4250 - 5500kg weight ranges.

The weight range where it would offer a significant improvement, 3600 - 4250kg isn't a particularly popular segment for coachbuilders. More so now as more than 70% of road users don't have C1.

We need to remember that only 8% of owners purchase a 6 figure motorhome, these & the 11% who buy in the £80k - £100k range tend to be those on the specialised chassis'. Most - 81%, opt for the £65k - £80k price band which tend to be built on standard skeletal chassis' whether mainland European or UK based designs.

 

[The Wino]

Maybe so but only around 20% of motorhomes within the 3500 - 3850kg weight range are built on the motorhome specific chassis. 80% of them are built on the the standard Stellantis Light chassis - the one that's unchanged. This has now been made worse by Stellantis adding an anti sway/anti roll bar to many of the light chassis' making it costly to up plate due to the added work needed to be done to the suspension.

Stellantis have improved the ladder design motorhome chassis for increased weights up to 4400kg but again not many use it opting for the ALKo platform instead within the 4250 - 5500kg weight ranges.

The weight range where it would offer a significant improvement, 3600 - 4250kg isn't a particularly popular segment for coachbuilders. More so now as more than 70% of road users don't have C1.

We need to remember that only 8% of owners purchase a 6 figure motorhome, these & the 11% who buy in the £80k - £100k range tend to be those on the specialised chassis'. Most - 81%, opt for the £65k - £80k price band which tend to be built on standard skeletal chassis' whether mainland European or UK based designs.

Makes you wonder how long if countries do adopt higher weights on standard driving licences it's going to take for the manufacturers to offer vans in numbers to choose from.

 

[Jonno1103]

Makes you wonder how long if countries do adopt higher weights on standard driving licences it's going to take for the manufacturers to offer vans in numbers to choose from.

The Forecast suggests that in 10 years - I'll be 66, 90% of both U.K. & mainland European drivers won't have C1. This will of course be offset slightly by the EU raising the 'B' classification to 4250kg in January 2025 which the U.K. will probably follow and announce in the March budget.

Another obstacle is that since Stellantis bought the world and his wife supply is a lot less. It's not just Fiat & PSA using the platform now. Vauxhall/Opel & the new Toyota Proace Maxi use it. 5 brands one platform & with the Boxer being offered with an auto box from 2025 demand will be greater from converters. Skeletal chassis prices reflect this. Coachbuilders are keen to keep prices down hence the growing use of the standard metalwork.

We are now reaching a tipping point, we will begin to see Group brands rationalised as due to the cost to construct homologations profits are dwindling.

As an example, in 2023 the specific Hymer branded leisure vehicle turnover was £106m however they sustained operating losses of £5.5m.
Auto Trail Turnover was £64m with an operating profit over £9.5m.

This appears to show that the premium badges are struggling although the low to mid range sectors are recovering well since the pandemic. Auto Trails decision to kill both the Tracker & Apache marques has helped. Trigano are now well down the road of rationalising. Here in the U.K Auto Trails F Line & Excel ranges are very much a collaboration between Benimar & Chausson/Challenger so too is their A Class GF - Just as Mobilvetta essentially rebadge the Roller Team Pegaso 590, AT's Grand Frontiers utilise much of their European sister's design & parts.

We're seeing a larger influx of the alternatives. The VAG/MAN/Ford partnership & the Sprinter/Master partnership too.

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[The Wino]

The Forecast suggests that in 10 years - I'll be 66, 90% of both U.K. & mainland European drivers won't have C1. This will of course be offset slightly by the EU raising the 'B' classification to 4250kg in January 2025 which the U.K. will probably follow and announce in the March budget.

Another obstacle is that since Stellantis bought the world and his wife supply is a lot less. It's not just Fiat & PSA using the platform now. Vauxhall/Opel & the new Toyota Proace Maxi use it. 5 brands one platform & with the Boxer being offered with an auto box from 2025 demand will be greater from converters. Skeletal chassis prices reflect this. Coachbuilders are keen to keep prices down hence the growing use of the standard metalwork.

We are now reaching a tipping point, we will begin to see Group brands rationalised as due to the cost to construct homologations profits are dwindling.

As an example, in 2023 the specific Hymer branded leisure vehicle turnover was £106m however they sustained operating losses of £5.5m.
Auto Trail Turnover was £64m with an operating profit over £9.5m.

This appears to show that the premium badges are struggling although the low to mid range sectors are recovering well since the pandemic. Auto Trails decision to kill both the Tracker & Apache marques has helped. Trigano are now well down the road of rationalising. Here in the U.K Auto Trails F Line & Excel ranges are very much a collaboration between Benimar & Chausson/Challenger so too is their A Class GF - Just as Mobilvetta essentially rebadge the Roller Team Pegaso 590, AT's Grand Frontiers utilise much of their European sister's design & parts.

We're seeing a larger influx of the alternatives. The VAG/MAN/Ford partnership & the Sprinter/Master partnership too.

I agree on the trigano group they seem to be offering what people want at a price enough people will pay to make it profitable. I suspect it's a fine balance.